Re: [SOP: Ideas] Spotting in BF2142

**YdoUwant2know** · 02-17-2009, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax74

I blind spot all the time, it was actually taught in one of the first 2142 infantry classes (taught by Bommando and freekyE, it was WAY long ago).

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...-function.html

In the middle ages they taught you that headaches were caused by demons. The cure they taught was to drill a hole in someones head to let them out.

In the early 1900's they taught you that god created everything in six days and evolution was a sin. They also taught you that black people and and women were inferior.

Just because it was taught once does not make it right.

I'm sorry, but blind spotting should NOT be included. Especially not for the CO.

**Lorax74** · 02-17-2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by YdoUwant2know

I'm sorry, but blind spotting should NOT be included. Especially not for the CO.

Hmm....

Originally Posted by YdoUwant2know

As I said, I only spot when I know someone is there. Or have good reason to believe they are (report from squad, last sat-track, etc.)

You're introducing some gray area here. You can't say it "should NOT" be included in one sentence yet in another say it is if you have a good reason to believe someone is there. "Good reason" is bit subjective, something that might cross the line for you could be fine for someone else.

**Reaperassault** · 02-17-2009, 03:38 PM

If you have reason to believe that there is something to spot then spot it.

Do not 'fake spot' would be good to add, when someone spots a gunship on belgrade it means that person is not helping their team and that makes people sad.

**Lorax74** · 02-17-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Reaperassault

Do not 'fake spot' would be good to add, when someone spots a gunship on belgrade it means that person is not helping their team and that makes people sad.

I'd wager that most people don't know how to do this.

**Reaperassault** · 02-17-2009, 03:53 PM

we should keep it that way then

**pred011586** · 02-17-2009, 05:22 PM

Why not just chalk spot-checking up as, "it's a programmed part of the game, so it's allowed." ?

If you need some kind of justification, you can say that the basic NetBat system can detect vibrations at range in a narrow field. Quick heartbeats would be a soldier, slower heartbeats would be a sniper, and engine rumble signatures are different per vehicle. Networked with your team, the NetBat can automatically determine whether the entity found is friendly or unknown, if unknown, it gets spotted.

"fake spotting" like reaper pointed out, is definately something that shouldn't be condoned. Although it can be humorous to see a Gunship on your mini-map on Tunis, it doesn't help your team at all, and although it may be some stress relief for you and some others, there will certainly be people on your team that will be annoyed by it.

Spot checking should be allowed though, this is BF2142, not BF2. Technology progresses exponentially, and there's no reason to believe that a narrow-cone vibration checker networked with the existing NetBat system wasn't invented during that time frame. If you need a reason to believe that, then look at the game. Between IDS, PDS, Pulse Scan, NetBat, UAV, SAT-Track, Cloaking, Ghost, and Q-spotting in general, technology leading up to the year 2142 has clearly been focused on the gathering (and denial) of intel about the enemy.

Sorry that got a bit out of hand, to emphasize the on-topic parts:

Fake-spotting should not be allowed.
Spot-checking should be allowed.

**Reaperassault** · 02-17-2009, 05:42 PM

spot-checking FTW

its a big advantage for someone who uses it versus someone who doesn't

**YdoUwant2know** · 02-17-2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Reaperassault

spot-checking FTW

its a big advantage for someone who uses it versus someone who doesn't

The same can be said for aim bots and bunny hopping. Does that make it right?

Before I derail this thread even further, I should point most of my opposition to using "Blind Spotting" has been covered in the linked thread. Honestly, my biggest issue is when blind spotting is used at a command level. When spotting as a squad, you are limited to your actual line of sight, while commander, you have no such limit and can easily blind spot anywhere on the map without limits. This just is not right. I firmly believe, "blind spotting" at a command level to be an exploit.

At a squad level, it is still the boy crying wolf, but at least they are limited to what they can see.

Originally Posted by YdoUwant2know

Don't get me wrong, I love love the spot feature and I use it a lot. I am not arguing against the spot feature as a whole. I just don't believe that randomly "blind spotting" hoping to find something is right.

What a person is doing by using the spotted feature as a poor man's sat-track is taking advantage of the game. They are relying on the fact that the game will tell them if they see something because the Mini-map shows a dot and not a question mark. It is an exploit.

Think of it this way, a CO that uses the blind spot is like the boy that cried wolf. but instead of trying to fool the villagers, he is lying to them so that they will tell him if there is a wolf or not so he can pass that information onto the sheep.

When a CO blindly spots he has no idea what is there he is just relying on the game to tell him whether or not he messed up by crying wolf.

**pred011586** · 02-17-2009, 11:58 PM

=( using the same argument I made for squad level blind spotting works for command blind spotting. Who's to say we don't have satellites in orbit that can give pin point vibration detection beams from outer space. They'd take alot less energy than a full SAT track, and thus wouldn't need to be recharged. We don't know if blind-spotting on the command level is an oversight of the coders, or a legitimate feature. I'd love to know DICE's stand on this.

**RoadWarrior** · 02-18-2009, 12:54 AM

I would like to mention what not to spot...I get annoyed when people spot ficticious items like a gun ship or air transport in Camp G, or armor in infantry only, no vehicle maps..people think that's funny, I find it distracting.

**pred011586** · 02-18-2009, 01:39 AM

Agreed, that would be the fake spotting reaper braught up. There are times where it's funny, but almost always annoying for others. Just don't do it. Unfortunately, I can't say I've never done it, usually for me it happens when defending back flags that are getting no action, but if I was somebody else, I'd be yelling at myself to stop it at those moments..... that sounds a bit skitzo but you get what i mean.

**Vulcan** · 02-18-2009, 04:54 PM

I hear your arguement on this YdoUwant2know.

However I think intent is the key point here. If you are doing this in an area that's possibly hot and you are looking for targets you think might be there, I don't see a problem but you can't judge intent unless they are spamming it a lot. We have a safeguard for that blocking it after spamming it don't we? Even if there isn't a target located it's still a way to warn the team that you think an enemy is in that area hence the question mark icon.

I wouldn't try to pull a rule over something like this when you can't enforce what someone's intent or viewpoint might be. Admins would have to see this first hand and get confirmation that persons was just doing it randomly trying to spot targets and deal with it from there.

In general though i agree that just spotting for targets for no reason is not only annoying but pointless. Like a tactic for to harass the server.

**Mordona** · 02-18-2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by pred011586

Agreed, that would be the fake spotting reaper braught up. There are times where it's funny, but almost always annoying for others. Just don't do it. Unfortunately, I can't say I've never done it, usually for me it happens when defending back flags that are getting no action, but if I was somebody else, I'd be yelling at myself to stop it at those moments..... that sounds a bit skitzo but you get what i mean.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I hear your arguement on this YdoUwant2know.

However I think intent is the key point here. If you are doing this in an area that's possibly hot and you are looking for targets you think might be there, I don't see a problem but you can't judge intent unless they are spamming it a lot. We have a safeguard for that blocking it after spamming it don't we?

I wouldn't try to pull a rule over something like this when you can't enforce what someone's intent or viewpoint might be.

I'll warn people when that starts to happen and take a step up if it becomes presisent. False spotting is serious and sometimes completely accidental. I've done falses APCs by accident. We'll know when its pure spam and accidental. Of course we'll always accept reports on this as well and check them out.

**E_Leader** · 02-18-2009, 11:17 PM

If anyone knows me and been in my squad when im leading...

I will spot like there is no toamrrow..
I use Blind Spot techniques.. spot the corners/flags to make sure they are clear if not i move in and attack

I use random spot.. know someone is around so i spot multiple areas in a stright line across a building nearby

I use vechicle spots.. I will CONSTANTLY spot a Walker or Gunship until its out of sight or down

Also as a squad leader.. I constantly give move to orders on where i spot a mass or possible beacon and i love my squads soo much when they move in as a Squad to clear ANY move to order i assign.

**Housekeeper** · 02-21-2009, 02:07 PM

Spotting, eventually, should come naturally just like running, shooting, and following orders. You have to know when to engage, when to aid your squad, and when to stop for 5 seconds and spot as many targets as possible. Sometimes it is easy to get caught up in a spotting frenzy where you can't see the forest for the trees, and you / your squad get snuck up on as a result. Oh, and if you see 10-15 enemies all moving in one direction, spotting once or twice and then saying over voip " heavy push 2-3 squads moving north-west towards command centre, I've just spotted a few out" will usually be quicker / more effective than trying to spot each enemy.

Oh and not sure if anyone else has their keys remapped, but I use F as my spot button, and Q as my change weapons button (just so used to it from steam-based games). I find it's easier to move my index finger to the F, rather than my weak little ring finger up to the Q. I think F is by default the secondary radio, which I have mapped to R.

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