Re: SL to SL voip channels = AWESOMENESS

**Crux** · 02-28-2009, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by pred011586

And Crux, I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I wasn't logging on TS every time I joined the server as of late. I must be talking to ghosts =(. I'm not too lazy to get on TS, I refuse to use SL-SL because of the advantage it gives. Not on the public servers. Is it lazyness? No, I've had the key bindings set for a long time now. Also, if your post about me not caring about teamwork wasn't part of your counter-argument, then was it a personal attack against me? I don't get why you would bring up that you think I don't care about teamwork enough.

Great. So you've switched from condescension to sarcasm. Do you somehow think this is going to lead to a productive conversation?

1. Anyone on the server can easily get access to our teamspeak server
2. On said teamspeak server, there are clearly labeled channels available for in-round use.
3. Using said channels often leads to a higher level of tactical play and greater teamwork on our server
4. Tactical Gamer is supposed to be about promoting a higher level of teamwork in a mature environment
5. You have a choice. You can complain in-game and in the forums, and try to lower the level of play in the server to the lowest common denominator. OR, you can try to spend your energy promoting the use of teamspeak and help to raise the level of play in the server.

Now see? I didn't even need sarcasm OR condescension to try and score points. Logic ftw!

**Repaq** · 02-28-2009, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Crux

Now see? I didn't even need sarcasm OR condescension to try and score points. Logic ftw!

Crux I think you need to stop, breath, and reread your posts.

**pred011586** · 02-28-2009, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Exploding_Silver

one suggestion i have is to make the loading map message more descriptive
ie from "We utilise teamspeak during rounds"
to something like "We use teamspeak for SL to SL comms, join our teamspeak !"
or something like "Join us on teamspeak for SL to SL comms !"
or something like "We use teamspeak for SL to SL teamwork"

Definitely a great first step towards making this work better. We would need to also mention to check our forums for details, since getting on TG's TS servers isn't the same way you would connect to most other TS servers. At the very worst, this will at least let non-TGers get on TS and get to know everyone better. Is there enough room on the welcome message for all of this? Is there any part of the welcome message that could be trimmed out?

**Memento-Mori** · 02-28-2009, 11:30 PM

Well, I think one thing should be mentioned, and that is the fact "losers" (i.e. anyone without "Reaper" in the name) are likely to get hammered by non-losers no matter what voice comm everyone is using. Indeed, using a SL-to-SL (and CO!) communication can be used by everyone, and the benefit to a losing team is often greater than the winning team. If a team who would otherwise be hammered left-right-and-center used SL-to-SL communication, then more flags would be captured and fewer needless deaths of running into the aforsaid "Reaper machine" would occur. Less communication only hurts those who have a weaker skill level. The fact that the more skilled are often the only ones using this device is a matter of circumstance, not natural consequence.

I do admit to not using this device very often (code for "never"). I am sure I could do a better job of educating myself and joining the main channel more often. That being said, I agree with Doc over there. Me and him are in the same boat with our squad leading methods.

**oKnow** · 02-28-2009, 11:47 PM

I have not read ALL of the lengthy posts on the subject but I would like to point out just a few things.

The amount of players that are genuine pubbies, nubzors, on TG servers is almost nill now. During busy times of the day I would dare say that nearly everyone is a supporting member regardless of the tags they wear. Those that can actually join a game during those times should know what's up.

Secondly. We are elitist people-born-out-of-wedlock. anyone that says different has been blinded by Zohar's Light. We kick people for not joining squads, and demand that they follow orders. We make poor kids wish they could buy mics, and casual players tell us to go get a tan for christ sake.

Not to say that we don't open the door to strangers with welcome arms, but this community was made for those that want to play pin the tail on the donkey with a boot. I agree with Pred in saying that stepping out of the game to achieve this is a little tooooo much, but to him I say (Axis and Allies). Inside jokes aside I believe in the betterment of ourselves in BF2142.

The TS server went down before for being sooooo unfair it was like shooting babies with guns shaped like (and taste like) ~*CANDY*~

... I say just give it time. People will stop using it again for the sake of fun, or everyone will sack-up and use it.

**DocGuo** · 03-01-2009, 12:23 AM

Just how far are we willing to go?

the question of using such the TS challenges the core values of TG....at what point do we realize that this is only a game and it can only be played to a certain level of tactical ability...

As oKnow so brilliantly put it...we do make poor kids wish they had a mic while others question our pursuit of teamwork....where is the fine line and how hard do we push for such tactics and methods of communication...

it only becomes a question of exclusion and elitism once we go too far (I don't even know where that point is)....accessibility is what makes this a great game!!!

**Reaperassault** · 03-01-2009, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by DocGuo

the question of using such the TS challenges the core values of TG....at what point do we realize that this is only a game and it can only be played to a certain level of tactical ability...

The only one limiting a level of tactical ability is yourself. Using TS promotes the core values of TG, Teamwork.

For everyone:

How do you think the good players got good? Because they wanted to be. This desire set them off on a journey to discover the game and the guiding principles behind it, all while examining their findings and looking to improve and create better ideas and tactics to over come their foes. Along with a bit of luck and a lot of effort they shaped themselves into the great players we have.

Now what does this have to do with TS? It is the next evolution of tactics. It is the next advantage to bring down the enemy and conquer him. This game (and other competitive games) are all about using your advantages, this being TG we do limit some of those advantages for fairness and balance (hacking and the such) but other than that its all about pushing your mind beyond what it was before. The TS channels are perfectly fair, each team has the ability to freely use the channels made available by the supporting members of this community. Let me say this, a team that tries and put effort into their goals will far out perform a team that does nothing but sit there and wait. Become a better player but putting out some effort and start using your brain otherwise be prepared to be out done by those who care and are willing to make adjustments to themselves to improve their play. The TS channels are just the next step for the people that care.

**YdoUwant2know** · 03-01-2009, 04:04 AM

Didn't Lorax lock this thread six freaking months ago?

This is the exact same crap from the exact same people with the exact same BS arguments on both sides of the coin. Go ahead, argue about the meaning of teamwork and who knows TG better. Fight over who cares more. Make fools of yourselves all over again and in another six mounts we can do it all once more for good measure.

In the end this is all that will happen: those that already use this will, those that do not will not, and in six weeks no one will use them and everyone will wonder why the hell we even have these channels.

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ng-much-8.html (The "fun" starts on page 3)

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...-channels.html

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...-team-2-a.html

**Superfast** · 03-01-2009, 04:13 AM

We use TS for SL or coordination channels over at PR/ARMA here at TG as well. There TS is used more than on 2142 for coordination within a team in many ways and in short it adds better teamwork to the gameplay. That's what it does here too when used. It's just more efficient on the battlefield.

You don't have to use TS coordination, but it's fun, free, sociable and adds so much teamwork so why wouldn't you? And TS coordination alone doesn't secure victory, but it can help.

**Exploding_Silver** · 03-01-2009, 08:34 AM

I have seen SL-SL teamspeak come in, be used for a while, then go away, then come back again very recently
My experience of SL-SL teamspeak is that it ups the teamwork and tactical possibilities considerably and is an easy way to up the standard of the whole server
I will consistently push for this idea to be the normal round to round habit for our community

**SharinganTH1422** · 03-01-2009, 11:55 AM

I think the main argument here against this SL-to-SL communication is pubby stomping. It used to be the case that a pub could jump on and have a good game without having known previously about TG, and then from here their interest would grow. Now that this use of TS has gone past smacktalk and general TG chatter and has become of tactical use, it puts newcomers on our server at more of a disadvantage than before, also somewhat signifying a sense of exclusivity, which is - as always - not what we're about it.

Although it may not be intended to be used like this, it seems it so easily could be.

Edit

Reaper, you talk about this being the next evolution in 2142, and I think you're very much correct. It's just that all the other "evolutions" we've ever had (rockets are an example, although most other changes TG has gone through aren't as tangible as this) are things a pub could jump on the server and do immediately. This TS thing isn't.

pred made the assumption that SL-to-SL is for the more competitive among the TGers but I disagree (Although I may be wrong and please point it out if you think I am). I think this game has been out for a long time, and although it's still a great game, TG2142 vets have played every level, every strategy, every situation to death, and are probably now having a shade of boredom setting in, but they stay because of the great community, the great friends they've made, and the fact that this game is still an awesome, fast-and-furious, teamwork FPS. But I think that because these guys have exhausted everything 2142 has to offer, that they're now forced look to 3rd-party programs like this to further enhance a gaming experience they know inside-out. Just a theory.

**Crux** · 03-01-2009, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Repaq

Crux I think you need to stop, breath, and reread your posts.

I was being sarcastic. I'm Australian. I have to be. Or they take my citizenship away!

On a side note, I don't even use this myself. In fact last night was the first time I even jumped in one of the side-specific channels without the intent to grab a specific person to talk about something.

Personally it doesn't make a whole lot of difference for me. I'm always watching what other squads are doing so closely that it's doesn't seriously enhance my level of information. But, I differentiate between my personal desire to use it or not from whether or not it should be allowed. And in all honesty, I've only seen one side actually doing this maybe a half dozen times in all the hundreds of rounds I've played on the TG server.

In short, I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill.

**Lyramion** · 03-01-2009, 12:27 PM

Insert angry comments here that would lead to a ban if spoken out

**Repaq** · 03-01-2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

Insert angry comments here that would lead to a ban if spoken out

Eroaks Hammer is made of Downie soft tissue paper?

**Damonte** · 03-01-2009, 02:07 PM

A few points that need to be made very clear:

- Tactical Gamer is a place that promotes gameplay with an emphasis on teamwork and tactics. The idea is that regardless of individual skill level, a team with superior teamwork and superior tactics will defeat a team which has superior individual skill. I think that we can all agree with this premise.

- TeamSpeak is an asset that is provided by TG to bring about greater teamwork and greater tactics through communication. TeamSpeak does not improve individual skill.

- It is not an exploit of the game mechanics to use TeamSpeak to communicate outside the squad and SL-CO channels that are built into the BF2142 game. Period.

Tactical Gamer was founded to provide a place where individuals who wanted to enjoy these aspects of gaming (teamwork and tactics) in their fullest could do so. The idea was to raise the bar and keep it high. Tactical Gamer is not for everyone. Over time the community grows as more people who find agreement with the principles, intentions and Primer of Tactical Gamer wander in and never wander out. TG BF2142 is a wonderful sub-community of a much larger and wonderful community.

We should be focusing on raising the bar, not lowering it. One's abilities, whether they be squad leading or coordination or situational awareness or even individual skill, they improve best when faced with an obstacle or a challenge that needs to be overcome. We shouldn't dumbing down the quality of the play. We should be encouraging, helping and striving to climb up to the same level.

TeamSpeak, in of itself, is not unbalancing. It is available to everyone. SL-SL communication is available to everyone. This issue is NOT about Teamspeak. It's about people.

So let's talk about what we, as the people of the TG BF2142 community, will do to encourage the quality of teamwork and tactics regardless of the tools at everyone's disposal.

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