Re: Why our titan server is terrible.

**pred011586** · 03-02-2009, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by YdoUwant2know

Actually, it is because of my commanding experience that I do not agree with the decision to lock the titans. Yes, when Titans are moved too close to one another the lag is bad. Yes, you can whore the titan guns and make it all but impossible to capture the silo's, but remove that and the Commander is really only useful for the sat track button.

What a commander can do:

Supply drops
Sat Track
UAV
EMP
Move Titan
Lead team by by looking at big picture and coordinate Squad Leaders

What a commander cannot do: Fight or do much of anything beyond staying on flight deck.

Of these, the only thing you cannot reproduce are the sat track and Move titan. Everything else can be done better and faster without keeping a player locked away in the hanger bay the entire time.

Supply drops: Can easily be replaced with an Engy, Medic and Support solders, not only can they heal, resupply and repair, they are mobile and can fight back. They also do not have a recharge time.
Sat track: still useful, shows the approximate location of all enemies on the map at a given moment.
UAV: Just about useless on large maps. Only really good on one silo at a time and too short to be overly effective. It can also be replaced with IDS and PDS. They last longer and you can have more of them.
EMP: Useless without orbital or an amazing amount of coordination. Also EMP grenades are better. They are mobile and do not need as much time to recharge.
Move titan: Titan location can make a huge difference in how the game is played. you can put it near the silo's for easier cap and control, or move it away to so that it is much harder to assault and you do not need as many people to defend it. This option is now gone.
Lead team by by looking at big picture and coordinate Squad Leaders: With the SL to SL channels, might as well just become an SL and direct the team that way. Then you can still fight, still cap silos and still be effective.

In the end, the ability to move the titan is one of few truly important things a commander can do that cannot be easily replaced by some other means that is more or less just as effective. Removing this ability is disappointing. Don't get me wrong, I understand the decision and why it was done. That does not mean I have to agree with it.

I agree full heartedly with Y's post here. It's a shame that the server lags to hell when the Titans get too close =(. The decision is unfortunate but definitely understandable.

**Lorax74** · 03-02-2009, 11:38 PM

All servers lag to hell when the titans get close to one another, it's not just our server. If memory serves me well, the first or second patch introduced the ability to disable titan movement because of this.

**Lyramion** · 03-02-2009, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax74

All servers lag to hell when the titans get close to one another, it's not just our server. If memory serves me well, the first or second patch introduced the ability to disable titan movement because of this.

Well there are differences I think

Our first Server is a powerhouse that could prolly run Titan better. The second one is slightly worse I think. Good for normal things but has problems with Titan movement.

**Mordona** · 03-03-2009, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

Well there are differences I think

Our first Server is a powerhouse that could prolly run Titan better. The second one is slightly worse I think. Good for normal things but has problems with Titan movement.

We tested 64.34.163.112 (AKA: Conquest server) with the current setup when we moved servers over a year ago. The test ran 64 player and 50 player titan with movement. The lag issues still remained but the serverwide rubberbanding issues were resolved. For those that remember that issue, its different from normal titan lag and effect every player and doesn't matter if they are on the titan or far from it.

**Lusitano Louco** · 03-03-2009, 02:02 AM

Oh, I forgot to point something out, the premise of this post is wrong to begin with. Our titan server is not "terrible". It's actually pretty good considering how little support it receives from admins.

**Spyder228** · 03-03-2009, 09:51 AM

I played on it last night for a couple of rounds, and granted it was only about half full there was no lag in sight. Only thing that sucked about it was that it was only half full

**Repaq** · 03-03-2009, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Lusitano Louco

Oh, I forgot to point something out, the premise of this post is wrong to begin with. Our titan server is not "terrible". It's actually pretty good considering how little support it receives from admins.

Well the word Terrible is an opinion. Before titan movement was turned off it was unplayable by me.

**Lyramion** · 03-03-2009, 11:13 AM

...actually pretty good considering how little support it receives from admins.

...but this claim is terrible

**oniell121** · 03-03-2009, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

...but this claim is terrible

I agree. Though they don't spend as much time actually on it, they respond quite nicely to TS requests or when I go dig eroak out of the 3rd channel. All one has to do is find one.

**flik2142** · 03-03-2009, 12:56 PM

i loved moving titan behind enemy titan so every missile, whether they controlled it or we did would blow up on their titan...it was the principle point of CO for titan maps, as is mentioned above, the other CO devices available on titan maps are pretty negigible over the map, especially because the maps are very nonlinear and there is a lot of silo hopping and gunship playing.

**RoadWarrior** · 03-03-2009, 03:28 PM

I think we have to consider concessions with respect to Titan movement. Personally I am indifferent either way about the subject but the fact remains that our current Titan server is unable to handle the load and therefore lags. If locking Titan movement helps solve this problem then it is a trade-off we need to make for the sake of everyone. The issue of whether to move it or not is moot if the server can't handle it anyways.

I am curious, if Wolf Servers hosts this box, then can't we request a different server, one with more horsepower?

**Zhohar** · 03-03-2009, 04:10 PM

Both our servers outclass this game by a wide margin, Road. The problem is with the game itself, not the machine handling it.

I personally have *NEVER* experienced titan lag, even when the titans are touching.

@Y -- just because Titan CO is Conquest CO without the Orbital Strike. Are you saying that the OS is truly worth that much?

Titan movement is a nice tactical tool, but if it bothers everyone, I'd rather keep it off.

**YdoUwant2know** · 03-03-2009, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Zhohar

@Y -- just because Titan CO is Conquest CO without the Orbital Strike. Are you saying that the OS is truly worth that much?

Titan and conquest really are two different beasts. Many of the fundamental tactics and strategies of conquest do not translate as well as one may think on titan maps.

Titan maps are a lot more open than most conquest maps. With the exception of the Titan hallways, choke points do not exist. Both teams have access to a lot of air power that make front lines all but nonexistent. Each silo in many ways becomes its own little world. This makes localized things such as the UAV, EMP and Supply drops a lot less useful than their conquest counter parts. On the flip side, the large size of the maps makes sat track invaluable.

Keeping that in mind, to compare the Titan to an orbital is a bit silly. The raw power of the Titan and her guns, is significantly more than that of even the best placed orbital. The range of her weaponry and the fact that you can spawn there and use the pod launchers for quick assaults allows the titan to server as a bridge between silos. Properly manning the Titan weaponry allows your team to set up a defensive perimeter that would take five times as many solder to set up on the ground.

In conquest, the smaller maps sizes coupled with a lot less air power, make the CO's assets much more valuable. Sat track is still number one, but the EMP is actually useful when coupled with an OS. More of your team will be needed as medics, because lives matter, so supply drops are worth more; and UAV's cover a lot more of the map so their usefulness is also increased.

In the end, the differences between a CO in conquest and CO in Titan is a lot more that just swapping one button for another. While their job still is more about information and coordination than anything else. The tools they have at their disposal are vastly different in their effectiveness, even if they are the same thing.

**Jetheren** · 03-03-2009, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by YdoUwant2know

Titan and conquest really are two different beasts. Many of the fundamental tactics and strategies of conquest do not translate as well as one may think on titan maps.

Titan maps are a lot more open than most conquest maps. With the exception of the Titan hallways, choke points do not exist. Both teams have access to a lot of air power that make front lines all but nonexistent. Each silo in many ways becomes its own little world. This makes localized things such as the UAV, EMP and Supply drops a lot less useful than their conquest counter parts. On the flip side, the large size of the maps makes sat track invaluable.

Keeping that in mind, to compare the Titan to an orbital is a bit silly. The raw power of the Titan and her guns, is significantly more than that of even the best placed orbital. The range of her weaponry and the fact that you can spawn there and use the pod launchers for quick assaults allows the titan to server as a bridge between silos. Properly manning the Titan weaponry allows your team to set up a defensive perimeter that would take five times as many solder to set up on the ground.

In conquest, the smaller maps sizes coupled with a lot less air power, make the CO's assets much more valuable. Sat track is still number one, but the EMP is actually useful when coupled with an OS. More of your team will be needed as medics, because lives matter, so supply drops are worth more; and UAV's cover a lot more of the map so their usefulness is also increased.

In the end, the differences between a CO in conquest and CO in Titan is a lot more that just swapping one button for another. While their job still is more about information and coordination than anything else. The tools they have at their disposal are vastly different in their effectiveness, even if they are the same thing.

Well said, that is how I've always seen the differences in Titan and Conquest in terms of CO. It is the reason I've never played as a CO on Titan servers since the vast majority lock the Titan's movement. Sadly the reason for locking Titan movement is very very obvious and affects a players gameplay. I prefer Titan movement because I hate to see the powerful guns of a Titan pretty much go to waste, but I understand why its locked and the reasoning behind it.

**pred011586** · 03-03-2009, 08:08 PM

I don't think it's any particular users comp that feels the lag, I think it's the server overall that gets bogged down. I play with a ping of 16, on a computer that can record full screen fraps without a noticeable frame loss at max settings, and when the titans get close I get the same lag. It's one person or another's computer specs, it's the server software that just can't handle the pressure.

Why? Hell if I know, but I'm willing to bet it has something to do with the insides of the two titans being in close proximity. You'll notice sometimes when you switch between the inside and outside of the titan there's sometimes a bit of a frame freeze depending on server load. I would assume this is your client quick loading the schematics for the inside of the titan. Well, when both are in close enough proximity, an object controlled by the server (ie, shields, consoles, core, spawning air assets, etc), ends up loading BOTH titan schematics, which probably causes some sort of thrashing problem on the server, taking away resources for handling the rest of the server.

Whether I'm right or wrong doesn't matter however, unless DICE is actually reading this thread, which is doubtful. What matters is that as it stands right now, when titans get too close, it causes the server to lag to hell, which causes many players to leave. Once on our titan server, I noticed we had a full server, then the "Close Titan Lag" happened two maps in a row, and the server needed to be seeded.

As tactically advantageous moving titans are, I'd much prefer having a seeded server to actually play on. It's highly unfortunate that it has to be like this, as moving titans adds an entirely new strategical and tactical element to the game, but I'm in support for locking titan movement until (read: if) patch 1.6 has a fix (read: ever comes out).

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