Re: If you could go back in time... [unlock discussion]

**Mixa** · 06-14-2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

The rocket is appealing, but generally speaking, if you're using rockets well, 3 does the job (2 really). That's not to say I haven't gotten a great number of kills from the fourth rocket, but we're prioritizing here. I'd take the Voss with 3 rockets over the SCAR/Baur with 4 any day of the week. I suspect I am not alone in this.

I looked up some people who I respect in terms of their play. I'm not well acquainted enough with many of the newer players for the most part, so I just picked those who are still around who I know. No one I looked up had a lower than 1.4 KDR, although for the vast majority of players, their KDR listed is much lower than their average now.

The following are people's favorite weapons overall:
Zhohar - Voss
Crux - Krylov, Voss (new account, old account)
Lyramion - Voss
Spiff - Voss
Frozen Inferno - Baur
Pedestrian - Voss

A small sample size, I admit, but I think it's still illustrative. Of the 6 I looked up, only one had the Baur as their top weapon.

Anyway, my point isn't that the Baur is "bad" or that people shouldn't use it. My point is that when it comes to prioritizing your unlocks, the Voss should come first.

Crux uses Baur, besides this list looks very much of whom hate baur rather than who use Voss. I have positive KD with Voss, slightly, wand that tells that I have used the weapon 20% of the time. Baur is nothing more than question of use, it owns if you know it, and if you don't know how to it sucks. I hated Baur, then I got into it, nowdays I think Baur is second best weapon, straight after Krylov. Voss is more of ''spray and pray'' as its hip shot is better than Baur's. If you take it straight with Baur you won't ever need Voss. Best player I've seen is L.E.H.F and he uses Baur, I've never won him on 1on1 without a shotgun.

Besides, taking Voss you get the weapon and umm... Smoke nades + advanced medic hub. Weapon is good but if you take it for the unlocks the whole tree should be saved till you have nothing else left to unlock. When you practice Baur you get into it, and this discussion always pop-up on TG because some people don't use Baur.

So as I stated, I'd skip Voss tree until you see that you've unlocked most of the trees what you favor.

And for the 4th rocket, if you get kill with 2 rockets, then you get 2 kills with 4??

**Zoraster** · 06-14-2009, 04:26 PM

he already has up to the smoke grenade, so that's not really part of the discussion. I might advise something different if he didn't already have up to that.

are you looking at the right crux? plain ol' crux isn't TG Crux, if my memory serves. I think Crux15 is Crux's old account. Perhaps he can correct me.

Crux15: http://www.battlefield.ea.com/battle...=&PID=87205858

CruxAstralis:
http://www.battlefield.ea.com/battle...&PID=178211266

It wasn't meant to be a list of those who hate the Baur. The KDR of weapons is actually misleading because it's number of your kills versus number of deaths TO THAT WEAPON, not while you're using that weapon.

So if you use a weapon that is less used (such as the Baur), it's actually easier to get a high KDR ratio with the weapon.

Anyway, my argument isn't whether the Baur is worth using. It's about priority. Eventually, he should get the Baur (he needs the extra rockets). I just think it's worth it to get the Voss (only needs one unlock to do so) then move on to the extra rockets.

Again, I'm not saying anyone is "wrong" for preferring the Baur. Just that the majority of good assault players use and prefer the Voss. Which is my reason for believing Whiskey may like using the Voss to perform better as an assault player.

**draeh** · 06-14-2009, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

he already has up to the smoke grenade, so that's not really part of the discussion.

are you looking at the right crux? plain ol' crux isn't TG Crux, if my memory serves. I think Crux15 is Crux's old account. Perhaps he can correct me.

Lately I've seen Crux on the server as cruxaustralis.

**Exploding_Silver** · 06-14-2009, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by draeh

Lately I've seen Crux on the server as cruxaustralis.

I've seen crux recently on as cruxnowdigital

**SharinganTH1422** · 06-14-2009, 04:46 PM

W6 I think you need motion mines before anything else just for the armour maps. Being well-rounded and having the best unlocks in each kit (except maybe Recon because no TG SL will ever ask you to go recon) is more important than over-specialising in just one. As Zoraster said the MM's are really the defib of the engi kit as they're the most powerful tool (arguably) in the game at taking down vehicles.

After that its really own preference, you've got the Field Upgrades and I'm pretty sure you'll know what is and isn't useful by now by seeing what tools your squadmates and enemies use. If you want to ask someone about the Accipter I'd ask reap, I don't really know anyone else at TG that uses it much. IDS is awesome and Clark is really good for CQ support if you've got good twitch skills, but I get the feeling you're not this type of player. If you're going to get the extra Rocket then I wouldn't leave it to a Field Upgrade and just get it, the constant switch between 3 and 4 rockets in your clip will cause much mid-battle confusion since it really messes with your instincts, I just always stick with 3 now.

And Zoraster, despite Crux's stats in a couple of recent discussions in the Tactics Forum he said he now prefers the Baur. But I think the debate about this is moot since W6 has already said he likes the Baur, and I'm guessing he would've tried out the Voss with some Field Upgrades too.

P.S. Moot is the most awesome word ever.

**Mixa** · 06-14-2009, 04:57 PM

My point overall is that its wrong to say ''don't take Baur, it sucks when compared to Voss''.

If you compare to Voss everything looks crap, besides, how much you play with which weapon doesn't show what you favor. I'm purely against the major as I don't like to go with rest. Those that use Voss well, use it LOT. While those that favor Baur usually also use Krylov. How you use the weapon varies between, but whiskey only gets radar smoke from Voss, when compared to extra rocket from the Baur he should grab that. People take Voss because its their first weapon they actually score easy kills, but on top notch level like TG, it isn't enough that you ''just score kills''.

Its true though that Whiskey has better time with Voss if he starts with it, but then we have another one to ignore potential that Baur has?

Weapon difference isn't mind blowing between these two in any case, so take the rocket first and then go for the Voss if devoted to medic, leave Voss if devoted to other kit I say!

**Zoraster** · 06-14-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mixa

My point overall is that its wrong to say ''don't take Baur, it sucks when compared to Voss''.

If you compare to Voss everything looks crap, besides, how much you play with which weapon doesn't show what you favor. I'm purely against the major as I don't like to go with rest. Those that use Voss well, use it LOT. While those that favor Baur usually also use Krylov. How you use the weapon varies between, but whiskey only gets radar smoke from Voss, when compared to extra rocket from the Baur he should grab that. People take Voss because its their first weapon they actually score easy kills, but on top notch level like TG, it isn't enough that you ''just score kills''.

Its true though that Whiskey has better time with Voss if he starts with it, but then we have another one to ignore potential that Baur has?

Weapon difference isn't mind blowing between these two in any case, so take the rocket first and then go for the Voss if devoted to medic, leave Voss if devoted to other kit I say!

I use the krylov when I'm on PAC and the Voss when on EU. I think that's become the norm for a great many players.

Anyway, radar smoke should be his absolute last priority. And at least in my setup, we're arguing about the 7th and 8th priorities which perhaps is not the most pressing issue for whiskey.

**DrBeat** · 06-14-2009, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

I use the krylov when I'm on PAC and the Voss when on EU. I think that's become the norm for a great many players.

This is exactly what I do. The best thing about the Voss is that it is available on both PAC and EU. If you are looking to master the Voss you can do so on both teams.

**FLIPmode** · 06-14-2009, 05:13 PM

Anyway whiskey if I were you I would get the IDS first and then the ammo clip extensions. Since you like to squad-lead a lot, get the OTUS drone as well. From there work your way towards motion mines and motion mine bait, very useful things. Afterwards I would recommend finishing up the support and engineer trees.

**Acreo Aeneas** · 06-14-2009, 05:21 PM

I would keep most of my unlocks except I'd swap out my smoke grenades for the faster SL beacon as I don't use the smokes too often and fine a faster beacon can help greatly.

**DrBeat** · 06-14-2009, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Acreo Aeneas

I would keep most of my unlocks except I'd swap out my smoke grenades for the faster SL beacon as I don't use the smokes too often and fine a faster beacon can help greatly.

Oracle, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only bad thing about the faster SL beacon means fewer seconds for revives.

If I could go back in time, I'd drop the faster SL beacon for the shoes, and drop the Clark RDX for the Zeller. I never went around for the NS unlocks.

**Zoraster** · 06-14-2009, 06:01 PM

yeah, unless you're in titan, i find the fast squad beacon to be a net loss for the team.

**YdoUwant2know** · 06-14-2009, 06:40 PM

DO NOT UNLOCK THE FAST SQUAD BEACON!!!

It is a waste of an unlock and has the tendency to glitch out causing people to die in the squad faster than they normally would. Even when the beacon is not deployed. When it comes to getting revived, every second counts.

**WhiskeySix** · 06-14-2009, 07:25 PM

cool... yeah I mainly like the Baur because I just can't stand seeing people at range and not being able to shoot them ... with bullets.. .when crouched... in single shot

It isn't too bad when spraying either - once you get used to the kick, you can keep it on target for the most part. The small mag size does suck, but as long as you're aware of it - which I'm starting to be - you can position yourself accordingly and avoid running dry...

Right now I'm ok leaving most of the stuff as field upgrades as I push towards getting the most critical unlocks. It seems that (depending on the map) I get 5-6 field upgrades in the first map anyway... I can handle running 'stock' for 15 minutes.

I guess moving towards the motion mines is the way to go at this point.. I'll save the clark for later

**Adaxa** · 06-14-2009, 08:36 PM

I would have focused gotten the sprint unlocks and the grenades first, but I still would have kept the recon tree decision. I have to say nothing has ever beaten that thrill you get when you blow up an enemy vehicle with RDX.

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