Rules Clarification: Knifing - Page 2

**IOWarrior** · 07-12-2009, 03:33 PM

I only see a problem if someone is just running around purely with his knife out trying to knife people. I can't remember how many times I run out of ammo and I pull out my knife. Maybe a dumb move, but fun. I play this game for fun and if I get a chance to knife you, I am going to do it.

This is a very nit-picky topic with an obvious answer and is a waste of space.

SincereApology · 07-12-2009, 06:13 PM

I completely disagree with those who could complain about knife rushing. It's a very valid tactic and running into a crowd of players can cause chaos, TKs on the other side, and 2-3 tags very quickly.

I frequently will judge how many shots I've heard fired, and if I think they're close to a reload, and I'm low on ammo too, then a quick rush can be very effective.

FL1Pmode · 07-12-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SincereApology

I completely disagree with those who could complain about knife rushing. It's a very valid tactic and running into a crowd of players can cause chaos, TKs on the other side, and 2-3 tags very quickly.

I frequently will judge how many shots I've heard fired, and if I think they're close to a reload, and I'm low on ammo too, then a quick rush can be very effective.

And then the knifer gets reported for suicide tactics. In all my life playing Battlefield 2142 I have never seen a knifer rushing into a full squad accomplishing chaos let alone doing enough damage to slow the squad down...

StormTAG · 07-12-2009, 07:05 PM

Knifing itself isn't wrong. I know the other day, I rushed around the corner and sprayed Baur rounds all over the place and my opponent missed his sniper shot and at the range, I thought the one-hit-kill of a knife would be more prudent so I drew. So did he and I was maneuvering to either get a shot or back pedal out and draw the pistol. Managed to get the guy's tags. Not knife rushing just desperation.

Now, I will admit that upon occasion I've pulled the knife rather than my rifle when I had my defrib out (although I've gotten good at defrib kills nowadays) and I come across someone covering my teammates. I guess you could call that knife rushing since I had other options but I'm not a great from the hip shooter so I figured, again, the 1-hit-kill was more prudent. Knife rushing? Yes. Excusable? Probably, IMO.

Now, what I've never done is run head long across open ground towards a group of enemy soldiers with my knife drawn rambo style. At that point a short thrown grenade would be much more prudent. Or rockets. That would be knife rushing that I would consider suicidal.

**UnDeaD77** · 07-12-2009, 07:26 PM

I don't think we ever supported the tactic of knife rushing. They'd get kicked back in the day, should be the same way now.

**Harlequin** · 07-12-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

6) No Suicide Tactics

This includes but is not limited to: RDX Jeeps, RDX suicides in the Titan Core room, suiciding with the intention of changing kits, suiciding with the intention of spawning elsewhere on the battlefield, or intentionally blowing yourself up to cause the death or damage of another.

How I've always interpreted the rule:

It seems that the gist of this rule are tactics in which you have NO CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. You still have a chance at survival, (infinitesimal as it may be), when you run headlong into a group of 6 armed enemies with your knife drawn, so you're not breaking the rule. I'm sure in the history of 2142 someone, somewhere, has knifed an entire squad and "lived" to tell the tale.

My personal thoughts on the matter aside from the rule(humble opinions):

I see "suicide tactics" everyday....

-Rushing an armed enemy, even just one, with your knife is suicidal. In all 13 of my unique knifings(yes I'm proud of it)out of 12k+ kills, the guy never saw me coming. I would say about 1 in 10 of attempted knifings on me is successful, the other nine result in them being killed by me or a teammate. One hit kills with the knife? A lot of the unsuccessful attempts were after I hear the swing and a miss sound of a knife. This doesn't include the times where they are still killed by a teammate after knifing me. If you hadn't been playing Mr. Knifey, you might have gotten us both. If there was a stat that showed "Number of times killed with knife out", what would yours be?

-Attempting to RDX a walker or other piece of armor while under fire from said armor. People have done it and survived, most don't.

-"Hot" revives, or revives during an artillery barrage. Yes you can survive them, and even if you don't, someone will, and you can be revived.

-The whole "Bodies on the flag, I want bodies on that flag. I'll stay back and be spawn point", order that you hear A LOT from SL's. Hmmm...you want us to throw ourselves on a flag that is being inundated with bullets, rockets, grenades, etc. and you're gonna stay back so we can respawn WHEN we die so we can attempt it again? What are we, suicidal?

Someone made a post elsewhere in the boards that stated something about a strive for realism, and that we should treat each spawn like it was our only one. Makes sense, but very few actually even attempt it.

MrJengles · 07-12-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoraster

this just seems like one of those things that shouldn't be much of an issue. Unlike bunny hopping, charging head first into bullets with a knife is not helpful for your survival.

Unless there's reason to believe the person is trying to die (for example, so he can spawn on his SL who broke through) or unless this is all this dufus is doing, it seems unimportant and not worthy of wasting admin time with.

After all, he's going to die doing this which is a pretty good incentive for him not to do it. And if he's in a situation where he DOESN'T die, and he knifes you... well, it's not really a suicide tactic.

The problem with that is when someone charges a bunch of people, and inexplicably manages to knife a couple before dieing. It may not be helpful for their survival but saying that their death will put them off is exactly the distinction people are looking for in this thread: those that DO NOT CARE that they died because they got 1 or 2 tags and WILL do it again. If he manages to knife all 3 of you whilst the 4th got shot and 5th and 6th got grenaded by someone else...then it is just as much of a suicide tactic as it was every other time, it just happens he got lucky and lived this time.

That being said, we mainly agree. My point is just that you can't base a rule on whether or not a person achieves it. RDX hopping, ramming and bunnyhopping are still not allowed whether or not the person managed to kill an enemy or avoid all those bullets fired at him/her.

By all means draw the knife at a moment you decide is good, running out of ammo is good enough in my opinion: as long as you manage it, knifing one and then reloading your gun to shoot 2 people is faster than having to reload once to shoot the first two people, and then again to shoot the last one* The time you save killing people faster is less time being shot at, and so better for survival. As said by pleanty, a one hit kill weapon with infinite ammo can work wonders, even if it has a drawback of range.

Personally I quite liked someones comment about knifing people as they get revived. One enemy with a defib having just revived another enemy, and proceeding to do the same with rest of his squad: what's better, shoot him and be shot at by the revived guy? Or shoot the revived guy, then the next revived guy...then try and get the defib person but run out of ammo and die? Or knife every revive and shoot the defib person the moment you have clear 1 on 1 for long enough to end it?

*if you expect it to take that many bullets, as it may well do in some situations when running into experienced players and everyone running around.

/rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eroak

I'll sit aside a player with the knifing becomes selfish. We I see a player run from ruins to Statue with jsut his knife and never switch back. When I see someone cloak and dagger over and over for a whole round. When I see someone leave his squad and run into a enemy team with his knife the whole time.

This is exactly how I think about it. In my opinion, if a player runs a large distance with a knife in-hand, or only to then draw his knife and rush in (when he could grenade or shoot at distance) it is not ok. When he tries to shoot you, fails to kill you, and then decides to draw his knife, it is fine. If he does the latter in every single encounter and never reloads, it is not.

TheDarkPenguin · 07-12-2009, 08:08 PM

Well, as a situation, I was on Ruins with my squad on Belgrade. I came from the forests on Comm (or whatever is the one on the opposite side of Park) Tower coming into the storage crate thingeys. I saw a guy on the Minimap facing away from me, I saw the flash from his Voss, and I saw my squadmate near park having a firefight with him (they were both known TG'ers), and I ran into the storage crate behind him, not receiving fire from the rest of his squad (wherever they were). As I swung my knife he fell to the floor. Afterwards, I hear the squadmate (forgot the name):
"Oh! Sorry penguin! I didn't mean to take your knife kill..."
SL Responce: "Huh?"
Squadmate: "Oh, I took penguin's knife kill. Sorry!"
---
I personally do not value a Knife kill that much. You know, they made a "dogtag" system for "bragging rights", but the only thing worth bragging is if you hit KAIN, Zhohar, or a TG Admin (personally). I don't value a "knife kill" any more than I do an assault rifle kill. The only difference is that a knife is a One Hit kill scenario (hopefully).

It always is fun to run up to someone trying to knife him/her, then having them turn around, spew you a bit with their voss, then pull out their knife before they kill you, turning into a duel. Sprint, crouch, run like heck, turn, repeat.

MrJengles · 07-12-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harlequin

Someone made a post elsewhere in the boards that stated something about a strive for realism, and that we should treat each spawn like it was our only one. Makes sense, but very few actually even attempt it.

Nice points, but the game itself is not utterly realistic: not dieing from bullet after bullet, exploded or bullet riddled corpses being revived, and putting a flag on a pole causing you to win a battle being huge examples. This community strives for realism, among other things, but we cannot change the game into something else, we like it as it is, albeit with a little help from some rules to get rid of the downright extreme gameplay. The mechanics of the game - including RDX, revives and flag-taking - should not excuse extreme gameplay.

I'm sure you agree, it's just I find it hard to know what you specifically think of knives, because you said they are suicidal every time, yet:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harlequin

You still have a chance at survival, (infinitesimal as it may be), when you run headlong into a group of 6 armed enemies with your knife drawn, so you're not breaking the rule. I'm sure in the history of 2142 someone, somewhere, has knifed an entire squad and "lived" to tell the tale.

To which I would agree with you on a different point, how many attempts did it take them?

Luckily on TG we can do away with people trying nothing but knifing to get that one glory moment, or simply for tags. Other than that, knives are still part of the game.

Mercenary90 · 07-12-2009, 10:06 PM

If charging into a group of people with a knife is a suicide tactic, is charging into a group with an assault rifle, shotgun, or grenade a suicide tactic?

**DrBeat** · 07-12-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercenary90

If charging into a group of people with a knife is a suicide tactic, is charging into a group with an assault rifle, shotgun, or grenade a suicide tactic?

Suicide is " the intentional taking of one's own life." Going in to a situation with a rifle an intending to defeat thy enemies and emerge victorious would technically not be suicide, thought it would be stupid. But I suppose you could say the same for knifing, oh dear...

**Spyder228** · 07-12-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XXXDemon007

I'm not gonna try to draw the line, I'll let a more seasoned player or an admin do that, but I was knife-rushed by the same guy THREE TIMES! I was with my squad all three times, but never got the kill, and hence did not get his name, because that was definitely a suicide tactic. I'm sure the enemy had an IDS, because they seemed to know where we were and were acting accordingly. But sir knifes-a-lot would rush straight at us from around a corner and of course, die a suicidal death, because he was pumped full of Baur-lead, Voss-lead, Clark-lead, and Krylov-lead, with many kill damage assists thrown in.

Was this in my squad on Sidi? That guy that kept coming at us while we were at Reactor Core?

The only time I'll pull the blade is if I'm in a CQB and out of ammo in both my primary and pistol and am to close to huck a nade. It's actually worked quite a few times. It's more effective IMO than the defib. I always get caught with my defib out and I can very rarely get a kill with it.

SIDIOUS · 07-12-2009, 11:31 PM

ive seen L.E.H.F. run into 4 enemys with his knife and come out on top so i guess if you suck at knifing its suicidal but if you are good at it...................

**jazy2** · 07-13-2009, 12:16 AM

I think if you have a clear line through a group of enemies you should be right-clicking a grenade on your way past, not stopping for hit-n-miss tags. That's just my drunken self though.......

**LordKelvin** · 07-13-2009, 12:43 AM

I got rushed by 3 guys with knives tonight on Verdun. I ended up Piluming one in the face and got shotgunned in the back of the head just as the second was leaping forward to shank me. I mean... seriously... 3 guys spontaneously decide to pull a knife and rush me? That's not teamwork oriented gameplay and not striving for realism.