Re: Recon or support

**INSUNABULA** · 08-05-2009, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by LordKelvin

Ganz > Clark at every range except in your face.

Unless you plan to spend the entire round at Com Tower or defending Columns, bring a Ganz.

Certainly, but I recommend being proactive when it comes to your choice of primary weapon:

If the order has just gone down for you to be active in an enclosed area bring the shotgun. If you die and another order goes down for an area that is more spacious then bring a HMG.

Basically take the weapon that suits your immediate future - bring the tools you need for the job at hand.

**Greyed** · 08-05-2009, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by chris_hooper

recon ftw.

Originally Posted by INSUNABULA

A quiet whisper compared to the "barking-clark" crowd.

Originally Posted by ninkybob

Yeah, I hate to rule with the majority but Support is the way to go. Despite all this clamoring for the Clark, I find the Ganz to be an extremely enjoyable weapon to use, if it fits your playing style.

Actually I think this is a tad unfair. Most people didn't chime in for the Clark. They chimed in, rightfully so, for the EMP, IDS and Ammo crate. Things which are the namesake of the Support class.

Also I don't see this as a referendum as to the viability of Recon. While there are some people who are adamantly opposed to the Recon kit (bordering on calling it all but useless) that really doesn't apply here. I don't think anyone who has had to be on the wrong side of the scope from chris would call his contribution to the other team useless. However, chris was not asking recon or support. VeggieBoWeggie was.

What can be said with no disrespect to any Support or Recon player is that it is easier for an unskilled player to contribute with support than it is with Recon. Support involves standing with/throwing down the ammo box and tossing out the IDS. Utterly passive actions which yield immediate results for other players, even if the support player dies. Recon needs to get their APM/RDX placement down (and monitor them) or participate actively w/sniper or Lambert. Both of which are a challenge to handle. Or, put succinctly, Recon demands some skill to start to contribute to the team; support requires almost none. (Note emphasis please)

As such whenever player asks Recon or Support the issue is really, "Does he have the skill to run the Recon kit and contribute more than he could using passive actions in the support kit?" Chris' skill with the Recon kit is well known so if he asked the question we might very well say Recon. Veggie's skill with the Recon kit is unknown and as such we treat it as having minimal skill and default to the kit which has the lower bar to start to contribute to the team. Which is not to say Veggie doesn't have mad Recon skills; he very well could! We just don't know until he gets the unlocks (or picks up a recon kit) and starts taking down people left and right hooper style.

**INSUNABULA** · 08-05-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Greyed

Actually I think this is a tad unfair. Most people didn't chime in for the Clark. They chimed in, rightfully so, for the EMP, IDS and Ammo crate. Things which are the namesake of the Support class.

Also I don't see this as a referendum as to the viability of Recon. While there are some people who are adamantly opposed to the Recon kit (bordering on calling it all but useless) that really doesn't apply here. I don't think anyone who has had to be on the wrong side of the scope from chris would call his contribution to the other team useless. However, chris was not asking recon or support. VeggieBoWeggie was.

What can be said with no disrespect to any Support or Recon player is that it is easier for an unskilled player to contribute with support than it is with Recon. Support involves standing with/throwing down the ammo box and tossing out the IDS. Utterly passive actions which yield immediate results for other players, even if the support player dies. Recon needs to get their APM/RDX placement down (and monitor them) or participate actively w/sniper or Lambert. Both of which are a challenge to handle. Or, put succinctly, Recon demands some skill to start to contribute to the team; support requires almost none. (Note emphasis please)

As such whenever player asks Recon or Support the issue is really, "Does he have the skill to run the Recon kit and contribute more than he could using passive actions in the support kit?" Chris' skill with the Recon kit is well known so if he asked the question we might very well say Recon. Veggie's skill with the Recon kit is unknown and as such we treat it as having minimal skill and default to the kit which has the lower bar to start to contribute to the team. Which is not to say Veggie doesn't have mad Recon skills; he very well could! We just don't know until he gets the unlocks (or picks up a recon kit) and starts taking down people left and right hooper style.

...............So anyway, go with the Support kit Veggie.

**Greyed** · 08-05-2009, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by INSUNABULA

...............So anyway, go with the Support kit Veggie.

Greyed's Wall of Text stuns INSUNABULA. Finish him!!!!

D,B,B+HK

Babality!!!

But yeah, support Veggie. Well, not support Veggies, that'd be going Vegan, not support. Which makes no sense since if you really loved vegetables you'd eat meat and leave the poor defenseless leaves alone. Hmmm...... Bacon.

**BeSiege82** · 08-06-2009, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Greyed

Greyed's Wall of Text stuns INSUNABULA. Finish him!!!!

D,B,B+HK

Babality!!!

But yeah, support Veggie. Well, not support Veggies, that'd be going Vegan, not support. Which makes no sense since if you really loved vegetables you'd eat meat and leave the poor defenseless leaves alone. Hmmm...... Bacon.

Wait, are we talking about Veggie or Pig?

Did you know that some skill is needed when you use an HMG?

In any case, pick what you want and pick what you think you can be good at.

**Greyed** · 08-07-2009, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by BeSiege82

Wait, are we talking about Veggie or Pig?

... I ain't explaining that joke.

Did you know that some skill is needed when you use an HMG?

Yes. Did you know I was not considering the Support's weapon, at all, when writing that post? That's why the key phrase which was italicized and explicitly referenced again was start to contribute. My post wasn't about whether Recon is always better or worse than Support. My post was that for a Newb Recon to contribute to the team he has to have some skill while a Newb Support just has to run around with his ammo box out resupplying others. A much needed service, don't get me wrong, but one that I don't think anyone would place on the same skill level as sniping.

'sides, the PAC LMG is hackery, I swear. What is it with PAC base weapons being so sweet to use and the EU weapons being such a pain to get used to!?

**INSUNABULA** · 08-07-2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Greyed

'sides, the PAC LMG is hackery, I swear. What is it with PAC base weapons being so sweet to use and the EU weapons being such a pain to get used to!?

Life can be hard sometimes.

**LordKelvin** · 08-17-2009, 06:14 PM

What's funny is that the Shuko is complete crap at long-range. Short to medium range is it's best range. The Bianchi is slower and therefore only excels at medium range. For long-range targets (esp. if they are moving) Ganz is your best bet. But then you might as well pack it all the time because it is strong at close range and absolutely devastating at medium range.

**Math_Magician** · 08-17-2009, 08:32 PM

I'd take recon with explosives any day over Support. With recon, you can RDX a flag, and wait until it neutralizes, then blow up your RDX, and take back the flag. However one thing I don't like about recon is it's way harder to get teamwork points.

**Deterhek** · 08-17-2009, 09:10 PM

OMG. Math prepare to be forced into an argument deathmatch. You're going to have a hard time winning this one considering all the stuff saying pro-support.
Before this gets ugly, let me just say that no offense, but Math you've spent a lot more time on pub servers than TG, so you don't really know that explosives-recon isn't very useful. Someone will survive and revive the others, so what really have you accomplished, nothing. On pub servers, where you've learned to love recon, it probably is useful, because they don't revive, but on TG its more of a distraction/annoyance.

**Math_Magician** · 08-17-2009, 10:11 PM

Yes BUT if I kills almost the whole squad with RDX, I can finish the 1 or 2 remaining people with my Carbine before they revive the rest of their squad.

**Deterhek** · 08-17-2009, 10:37 PM

Yeah, but thats assuming that you are within a few meters of your RDX, and the others don't clear the area (i.e. kill you) before they revive. You probably won't be within walking distance of your RDX as 2142 is a very fast paced game, at least on offense. On defense, maybe, but still, thats assuming you get most of the squad.

**Sargentkyle23** · 08-17-2009, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Math_Magician

Yes BUT if I kills almost the whole squad with RDX, I can finish the 1 or 2 remaining people with my Carbine before they revive the rest of their squad.

...or instead since you are support and have a IDS you see the full squad coming on the mini-map and you take 3 teammates with you and decimate them without coming dangerously close to blowing yourself up...

**INSUNABULA** · 08-17-2009, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Sargentkyle23

...or instead since you are support and have a IDS you see the full squad coming on the mini-map and you take 3 teammates with you and decimate them without coming dangerously close to blowing yourself up...

Check-mate.

**Math_Magician** · 08-18-2009, 12:06 AM

eurghh!!! ok fine, you win when it's on a TG server...BUT on public servers Recon>Support IMO because there is less squad play.

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