Re: a new trend? Bunny Flop

**Aumen1** · 09-30-2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by LordKelvin

Also, I remembered something. For those of you claiming to want an exact definition of 'repeatedly' and 'in quick succession', I daresay that if I were to slap you across the face with my full strength 'repeatedly' and 'in quick succession' you'd learn pretty darn fast what those terms mean.

If you want to define them, look it up in the dictionary.

Originally Posted by Crux

This sentence is full of win. I've ignored the repeated calls for 'clear definitions' of words that are already clearly defined in the dictionary. There's even one online at www.m-w.com for those of you who don't own one yourselves.

Okay to say the least and in hopes not to build a bigger fire:

Kelvin your words are abusive. Obviously people have issue, so perhaps instead of treating everyone like children by asking them to use a dictionary and being abrasive, be constructive. Another word that has been thrown around a lot is subjective, that is how many seem to feel a rule would be. I think many of us use the prone key a good deal and feel they would be called out in TS etc when all they did was drop for cover etc. and thus want a clear understanding (notice I did not use the word definition) of what the rule would be and how to it would be enforced if such a rule came into existence.

I also think this is a delicate issue for many other reasons - In real life you don't go hopping around a battlefield, but you do drop prone all the time, under fire, for cover and concealment etc. So we need to be careful about a ruling with this and finally no one needs to be treated as if there word and opinions don't matter.

**Mixa** · 09-30-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Aumen1

Kelvin your words are abusive. Obviously people have issue, so perhaps instead of treating everyone like children by asking them to use a dictionary and being abrasive, be constructive. Another word that has been thrown around a lot is subjective, that is how many seem to feel a rule would be. I think many of us use the prone key a good deal and feel they would be called out in TS etc when all they did was drop for cover etc. and thus want a clear understanding (notice I did not use the word definition) of what the rule would be and how to it would be enforced if such a rule came into existence.

I think what Kelvin was after here is the fact that people don't seem to know what they're looking when its spoken of this ''bunnyflopping''. I think in Lyra's video there was bunnyflopping, but it is granted to this person that he used cover for the first dive, and second one was bit the same though he clearly is already using it to throw the aim off.

Comparing to bunnyhopping: clearly one jump is bunnyhop in TG server, some servers only see it bannable if its more than one jump, which relates to the ''repeat usage''. Its even harder for person to report if he has no clue if the other guy is actually breaking the rule or not (he might go prone -> up -> prone and then kill the person or something as close).

And if you get false / not true reports out of this it applies to bunnyhopping aswell. I can be throwing nade or jumping over a wall and make it go as fair hop, even though I'am meaning to bunnyhop. Same goes for bunnyflop, I may fake that I'm using cover or whatever but I only know what was the real intention, in these cases people have no real reason to report = problem solved?

Real problem is: One prone in the start of firefight is fair (this I think we all agree), but the second seems already very offensive for me. Unless person is jumping in cover. So is he allowed to use it how many times then?

And lastly: How does prone + space compare with prone + ctrl here...?

**Aumen1** · 09-30-2009, 05:10 PM

Great post Mixa +rep

**SharinganTH1422** · 09-30-2009, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Razcsak

How do you feel about our bunnyhopping rule? Why is that obvious, clear, and a workable rule while the exact same action using a different key is subjective?

Because not even a single jump is allowed in the open, but a single prone is:

Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422

Seriously though, what is the difference between jumping once and proning once in the open to avoid fire, other than one is used IRL?

Seriously though, when you're quoting old posts to reply to new ones, that's known as going in circles.

*sigh* I think I may be losing interest in this "discussion".

**MrJengles** · 09-30-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Razcsak

How do you feel about our bunnyhopping rule? Why is that obvious, clear, and a workable rule while the exact same action using a different key is subjective?

Originally Posted by MrJengles

Bunny hopping = didn't jump over anything but still jumped.

Which is posted here. Although I should add to that "and not throwing anything"... but still, I can see whether they jumped over an object, threw something, or did neither. It is a fact, and not subjective. Before anyone asks, "what if you miss that fact" ie there is a bug or just some random reason, I would refer them to:

Originally Posted by MrJengles

False reports where the reporter percieved a rule breaking but were corrected by an unknown factor - such as bunny hopping actually being a thrown grenade - aren't quite what I was commenting on personally.

False reports where the admins view on the situation differs from the person reporting, again and again, is my concern. As well as admins having a consistant view on this themselves. If it works, however, then that's all good news.

Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422

Seriously though, when you're quoting old posts to reply to new ones, that's known as going in circles.

*sigh* I think I may be losing interest in this "discussion".

Same here.

**Harlequin** · 09-30-2009, 06:52 PM

So to clarify that's one jump...no-no,one prone...go-go?

The reason why I ask is that my reporting guideline for bunny-hopping is:

one jump-shame on you

two jumps-report you

We're all guilty of the occasional accidental knee-jerk reaction of hitting the jump button. These are mostly, (I hope) unreported as we know the offender knows better. If I were to jump, just once, every time I came under fire, I would be getting a talking to I think.

However, going prone, once, for the sole purpose of avoiding fire, every time you come under fire, is OK?

Sorry if I seem to be splitting hares (get it?) here, but some of us are a little more thick-headed than others and need clarification.

P.S.- Kudos to whomever came up with the Floppy McFlopflop tag....'twas a good chukle.

**MrTango** · 09-30-2009, 06:52 PM

perhaps, rather than a rule, an addendum to the Gentlemen's agreement is in order?

**draeh** · 09-30-2009, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Crux

Shirley, you can't be serious.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPVw-Vl1ow[/media]

... I couldn't help myself.

**MrJengles** · 09-30-2009, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Harlequin

So to clarify that's one jump...no-no,one prone...go-go?

The reason why I ask is that my reporting guideline for bunny-hopping is:

one jump-shame on you

two jumps-report you

We're all guilty of the occasional accidental knee-jerk reaction of hitting the jump button. These are mostly, (I hope) unreported as we know the offender knows better. If I were to jump, just once, every time I came under fire, I would be getting a talking to I think.

Clarifying: to jump once without cover involved and not to throw anything is recognised straight away as against the rules.

The fact that a bunny whatever rule breaking might be accidental doesn't really play a part, because, if it was the only time you saw that person do it and for that reason suspect it accidental, then you don't have to report it. If they do it twice in a round (be it twice in an engament or two one-time encounters), then you KNOW they've broken the rule twice. And that twice is unlikely to be coincidence (it could be coincidence -especially if you recognise them as a regular, where you might wait for a third time- but for the majority it wouldn't). Whether a bunny flop or bunny hop you may give them +1 chance to whatever is the breaking point of the rule.

One jump = no-no (though possibly a mistake so perhaps not reported)
Two jumps (most likely) = report

With bunny flopping, one dive is allowed.

One prone = Ok
Two prones = did they break the rule or didn't they? If yes then: no-no (though possibly a mistake so perhaps not reported)
Three prones = did they break the rule or didn't they? If yes then most likely = report

**SharinganTH1422** · 09-30-2009, 07:14 PM

@Harlequin:

According to official server rules, a single jump should be reported, but no one's forcing you to report them if you don't think they're a bunnyhopper, and it may have just been a one time thing (If that's what you think). If however, this person were to jump in 2 or 3 engagements you had with him (just once each time) I think he's more likely to be the type of hopper you'd report. However if you were in multiple engagements with someone and they proned each time (just once) it would be perfectly legitimate (if bunny flop rules were implemented), since one prone is OK.

Originally Posted by Harlequin

Kudos to whomever came up with the Floppy McFlopflop tag....'twas a good chukle.

You're welcome

**Harlequin** · 09-30-2009, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by MrJengles

Clarifying: to jump once without cover involved and not to throw anything is recognised straight away as against the rules.

This is true and I don't disagree but, when I said we're all guilty of it from time to time I meant ALL, including admins, TGU instructors, etc. and since I'm not about to make a fool of myself by asking an admin in TS to give himself a warning, I'm going to extend the same courtesy to a pubby as I do to them, and give them the benefit of the doubt despite what the rule says. That's just how I roll.

**TheDarkPenguin** · 09-30-2009, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422

It is absolutely NOT the same thing:

Dolphin diving is going prone while jumping in the air to land in a prone position to avoid fire, which is banned.

Bunny-flopping is going prone then getting back up almost immediately and repeating this many times to avoid fire.

Originally Posted by Smachin007

What we are calling "Bunny-Flopping" is not the same thing as "dolphin-diving". "Dolphin diving" is when you jump and then go prone in the air. "Bunny Flopping" is just going prone and standing back up repeatedly in quick succession.

From my experience in Battlefield 2, if you jump in the air, and hit "Z" enough times, they guy does go prone in the air (a.k.a. dolphin diving) but then shoots to the ground. That person then get back up and repeats the same process, creating Bunny Flopping. It seems quite similar.

But please, the responses seemed pretty heated. If this is somehow getting people mad, just let me know and I will stop.

-DarkPenguin

**SharinganTH1422** · 09-30-2009, 07:47 PM

Not heated, I posted as I saw your post and didn't realise Smachin was already addressing it, but I know 2 posts in a row like that does look a little overkill. I considered deleting the post, but I spent a whole 40 seconds digging up Reaper's, I wasn't prepared to throw that kind of hard work away

.

There may be a couple similarities between bunny flopping and dolphin-diving, but they're pretty different actions (which is why dolphin-diving is already banned and bunny flopping is not...yet...), and for the sake of clarity and avoiding confusion, it's probably best not to say that they're the same thing.

**MrJengles** · 09-30-2009, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Harlequin

This is true and I don't disagree but, when I said we're all guilty of it from time to time I meant ALL, including admins, TGU instructors, etc. and since I'm not about to make a fool of myself by asking an admin in TS to give himself a warning, I'm going to extend the same courtesy to a pubby as I do to them, and give them the benefit of the doubt despite what the rule says. That's just how I roll.

I understand... that's why it is called a mistake, it was wrong but accidental. I am, of course, also guilty of the odd mistake, and I would similarily be very unlikely to report on the first hop. I'm just pointing out that it is instantly recognisable as wrong, though possibly a mistake. Rather than the flopping which is firstly subjective, and then there might be a single mistake thrown in which put them over the limit.

Rather than throw in possible mistakes to make this thread even more complicated, it's easier to ignore them as common factors for both bunny hopping and bunny flopping and assume people would treat it in the same way.

**MrTango** · 09-30-2009, 07:59 PM

addendum

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