Re: a new trend? Bunny Flop

**SharinganTH1422** · 09-30-2009, 08:08 PM

Possibly, but I think people want server-wide bans on this kind of stuff, not just a rule that applies only to the people who agree to it.

**MrTango** · 09-30-2009, 09:50 PM

well, its a compromise. Personally, I'm for a ban, but there seems to be a sizeable minority of people who disagree, or at least on how to enforce such a rule. Those of us who are against it would agree not to do it, the same way we agreed we "Will not occupy a vehicle that has already been claimed by a teammate," for example. Its not a rule, it's just good form. I for one am making that commitment right now - rule or no rule:

I will not "bunny flop/prone-pop/duck dive" or any other glitch-advantageous bouncing action!
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ommitment.html

(though I may sashay if you give me enough drinks, money, and a good feather boa!)

**Lorax74** · 09-30-2009, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

a bunny flop is a bunny hop with a different key

I agree mostly with the rest of your post, but I think you've oversimplified here. The two are different.

Yes, I probably am and yes, the two can be different, but they can be the same. In the end, this, like many other things, comes down to intent. Is the player intending to take advantage of cover or is the player simply trying to accomplish the same thing a bunny hopper tries to accomplish when they press the jump key.

**Harlequin** · 09-30-2009, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax74

....or is the player simply trying to accomplish the same thing a bunny hopper tries to accomplish when they press the jump key.

Please allow me to beat the s**t out of this already dead horse...

So the guy that does a weird sideways flop (just once) when he and I run into each other around a corner, is not, at least in my opinion, trying to make his profile smaller (a guy prone at your feet is as big a profile as one standing, it's just not in the same place anymore), nor is he trying to increase his accuracy (accuracy is not an issue at less than a meter). He is basically, dare I say it, exploiting the fact that I have a limited FOV and my projectiles that began hitting him are now hitting the wall where his body was a fraction of a second ago. That fraction of a second giving him ever so slight of an advantage that I end up dead, and he end up scurrying off with one or more points of health. Isn't he accomplishing the same thing as if he were to jump?

This close quarters flop annoys me more than anything. Hell, FWIW I would rather have a guy do the floppity flop-flop dance like it was all-you-can-eat floppy joe day as long as it's down range where I can see him to shoot him, and doesn't have me looking around in circles for him in my immediate vicinity.

What's that you say? How close is too close so that you don't annoy poor wittle Harley?

I don't have a friggin' clue...not even the faintest, foggiest idea...maybe you can stop a few meters away from me and we can start up a little dialogue on how far is far enough on a case by case basis...or...or...now I remember why I don't post my opinions in the forums.

**ionpig-A** · 09-30-2009, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by MrTango

well, its a compromise. Personally, I'm for a ban, but there seems to be a sizeable minority of people who disagree, or at least on how to enforce such a rule. Those of us who are against it would agree not to do it, the same way we agreed we "Will not occupy a vehicle that has already been claimed by a teammate," for example. Its not a rule, it's just good form. I for one am making that commitment right now - rule or no rule:

I will not "bunny flop/prone-pop/duck dive" or any other glitch-advantageous bouncing action!

(though I may sashay if you give me enough drinks, money, and a good feather boa!)

With some minor editing:

Addendum: "I will not bunny flop, prone-pop, duck dive or engage in any other similar behaviour as it is contrary to the intent of the Gentlemen's agreement."

My hat is off to Mr. Tango for suggesting a response that is VERY "TG". Nicely done sir!

I think this bypasses the need to prove or disprove whether or not something is/is not/may/may not/sometimes does happen or not happen in the dodgy 2142 codebase and the equally dodgy Internet.
I think this nicely affirms all of our attestations of maturity and desire for as near a simulation environment as possible.
I suspect it will put a stop to the annoying behaviour by TG tagged players.
If it doesn't address the overall situation for the long term then I suggest we ask the admins to do something more drastic.
That's how I see it from my perspective.

I hearby publicly state that I will comply with Mr. Tango's (edited) addendum to the Gentlemen's agreement as stated above.

- Bacon

Kindly direct your attention here if you agree.

**Crux** · 09-30-2009, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by MrJengles

Rather than the flopping which is firstly subjective

But it isn't firstly subjective. If you go prone, then immediately stand up and then immediately go prone and then stand up and go prone again, with the intent of using it to avoid incoming fire, it is really very, very, very obvious. There's no real gray area here. I've never seen what I would call gray area bunnyflopping.

To clarify: when someone uses bunnyflopping to avoid fire in a firefight it is exceedingly obvious. There is no question. They go prone continuously. There is nothing subjective in watching it happen.

I don't get what is so difficult about this to understand, I really don't. Someone is either bunnyflopping (ie using prone repeatedly and continuously to avoid incoming fire when not behind cover) or they are not. You just don't see a middle ground when you actually watch people play.

**Sluggo78** · 09-30-2009, 11:36 PM

I may have heard somebody say that hitting the prone key when on a hill is acceptable. I agree, alot of you prolly haven't heard of this term called an "IV" line. Standing inconstructable view. For instance, on cerbere, the hill that overlooks church. When I walk up it, there are people up there most of the time. So when they shoot me when I reach the top, I prone because the mounds or dirt the game terrain provides acts as a HUGE source of cover even though it may seem that you are "bunny flopping". So when somebody says it's cowardly to prone in face-to-face combat, it just shows that they aren't creative enough to even consider using the dirt or anything around them as cover. It bothers me. That is all.

**MrTango** · 09-30-2009, 11:47 PM

Sluggo- what you describe is definitely NOT the "bunny flop". that is using the terrain wisely.

**Harlequin** · 09-30-2009, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sluggo78

I prone because the mounds or dirt the game terrain provides acts as a HUGE source of cover even though it may seem that you are "bunny flopping".

No one is calling it's use as a valid tactic into question when it's used in conjunction with cover.

Originally Posted by Sluggo78

So when somebody says it's cowardly to prone in face-to-face combat, it just shows that they aren't creative enough to even consider using the dirt or anything around them as cover.

Not sure if this is directed at me but, for the record I never said it was cowardly, nor did the scenario that I described have anything to do with using terrain or anything as cover.

**cableguy619** · 10-01-2009, 04:34 AM

Bunny Flopping snd trying to micro manage it just takes more time to manage. The intent of goign prone is to make yourself smaller. I see many players do it even your own. To avoid being shot, but when you start to micro mamange then you will find that you are just kicking everyone. but to what extent.. are you going to ban the guys dolphin diving or everyone who ducks and goes prone?

All in all you have a bigger advantage going prone then you do hopping. 2142 and bf2 is known for the laggy hit box. You know you think you are totally behind a corner and you get shot while running away.

Now the theory of the laggy hit box even going prone to avoid a shot will normally register a hit. The Big reason you want to aim for the neck in most cases.

Ther eis a big article about it, I can find it and post it for you, with examples...

**Catman1975** · 10-01-2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Crux

Originally Posted by MrJengles

Rather than the flopping which is firstly subjective

But it isn't firstly subjective. If you go prone, then immediately stand up and then immediately go prone and then stand up and go prone again, with the intent of using it to avoid incoming fire, it is really very, very, very obvious. There's no real gray area here. I've never seen what I would call gray area bunnyflopping.

To clarify: when someone uses bunnyflopping to avoid fire in a firefight it is exceedingly obvious. There is no question. They go prone continuously. There is nothing subjective in watching it happen.

I don't get what is so difficult about this to understand, I really don't. Someone is either bunnyflopping (ie using prone repeatedly and continuously to avoid incoming fire when not behind cover) or they are not. You just don't see a middle ground when you actually watch people play.

I don't always agree with Crux, but holy hell....QFT and bolded for emphasis!!

This all goes back to the post that you never really answered Jengles:

Originally Posted by MrJengles

Originally Posted by Crux

Does that mean you won't answer the question? I was genuinely curious. I mean you're the one who is postulating that somehow an arbitrary distinction between 5 prones in 5 seconds vs 6 would somehow be important. Which tells me you either haven't actually seen people do continuous repeated proning, or you're just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

First, the difference is so tiny - which just gets amplified if we scaled it down to a couple dives every second, being compared to a couple point five, or point two or something... then how on Earth is everyone meant to be united in where that line is?

And secondly, how would they even find that line since no one would use a timer...

Crux is asking if you've ever seen the action he is describing? Have you engaged an enemy that bobs up and down like a fishing bobber

when you're trying to shoot them?

**Sluggo78** · 10-01-2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by MrTango

Sluggo- what you describe is definitely NOT the "bunny flop". that is using the terrain wisely.

Even so, people might get the wrong idea if that happens. People here have seen people continuosly prone and pop up, as for I... I can only say that I have seen people hit the decks and run for their lives, once. More and more this subject gets closer to being a rule in-game.

**Lorax74** · 10-01-2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sluggo78

Even so, people might get the wrong idea if that happens. People here have seen people continuosly prone and pop up, as for I... I can only say that I have seen people hit the decks and run for their lives, once. More and more this subject gets closer to being a rule in-game.

If this were to become a rule, I'm sure there would be a grace period with a focus on educating each other.

**LordKelvin** · 10-01-2009, 11:52 AM

To add briefly to Crux's comments, I want to point out that there aren't any of these 'borderline floppers' as the opposition calls them... You don't see people running around [i]borderline flopping[\i] just to get away with it. You have two kinds of people: those that play the game respectably and immersively, using prone every so often for terrain or other cover, or maybe to give themselves a second of breathing room while being sniped at, and you have those that constantly spam the prone and crouch positions to eke an unfair advantage with no regard to realism, immersion, or even the possibility of using available cover. This is why these 'borderline flopping' arguments hold no water... There simply AREN'T any.

**Aumen1** · 10-01-2009, 12:08 PM

Freaking awesome fish bobber gif. I have tried to simulate how some of these people go up and down so quickly and honestly I think they must have macros setup.

Here is what I have tried to simulate:
When I think of improper bunnyflopping it equals up/down/up/down/up/down/up/down in one spot (typically right in front of you as you are trying to shot them) and I have found this next to impossible to replicate. On top of going up/down... they fit in some shots somehow. I think I am have pretty good infantry skills and I definitely use prone a good deal kill someone esp if they have friends close because for a few seconds there body gives me cover so I can kill the others. But when I go to kill someone and they stay in the same spot going up adn down and I can't shoot them - I simply wish I had a button that allowed my character to kick them like a football. There are a few players that I go against who are very hard to kill i.e. Pure-Ox, Soggy, Reap, Zho, etc and one on one combat with these people is awesome we are diving, going prone, finishing clips and many times having at least one of us is resorting to knifes because we have run out of ammo. Not one time has any of these people gone up and down in one spot more than once; for one because they know that if they did it would be the end of them, they also don't have a macro setup to do it quick enough, they know that doing this limits the ability to fire(which I still wonder how people fire when the do it), and finally it looks stupid.

Finally I want to say re: Chris Hooper -- He is an excellent Sniper, he can use the terrain incredible well, he can crouch just as easy as going prone and kill you, however as a sniper the game does not let you peer, thus he must stick his head up to shoot you. I think we should all feel lucky that the game makes him do this otherwise everyone would be a sniper and Chris would be unstoppable. Chris good playing with you last night, and holster that pistol pal or we will have to find someway to ban it.

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