UCB Poll

**Aumen1** · 10-13-2009, 12:23 PM

If you are being perused (someone is following you, but has not fired) in the UCB while destroying assets do you think this is equivalent to being engaged and thus have the right to fire and defend yourself?

**Zoraster** · 10-13-2009, 12:35 PM

If you're going to have this conversation, you should put up the text of the rule.

Quote:

4) No UCB Camping

The UCB is designated as a safe area for "reinforcements" to spawn-in, coordinate, and launch attacks. Players may NOT engage enemy 'reinforcements', and may only enter the enemy UCB to destroy commander assets or engage enemy "combatants". (A "reinforcement" becomes a "combatant", forfeiting any special protection, when they leave the UCB or fire out of it).

Some examples of things that DO NOT break any rules

Entering the UCB to destroy CO assets and staying to ensure they don't get repaired
Killing an engineer (or crate) that's repairing CO assets
Defending yourself from hostile combatants in the UCB that have engaged you or your squad in combat first. It is acceptable to protect yourself and your teammates to ensure the continued success of your mission.
Chasing a retreating enemy vehicle back into its UCB to kill it

Things that DO break the rules

Entering the UCB with the intent on killing a disoriented spawning player.
Entering the UCB with the intent of stealing an enemy vehicle. *
* The ONLY exception to this rule is the asset destruction squad. An asset destruction squad may take an FAV when exiting the UCB. However, they may NOT take the FAV and use it to camp the UCB.
Flying over the UCB for air raids / bombing runs
Entering the UCB with the intent to lay mines/RDX
Killing a commander that has not engaged you in combat first.
Killing reinforcements in the UCB (enemies that haven't yet engaged in combat.)
Attacking a locked flag in Frontline Assault mode (Currently only applies to the non-Titan Northern Strike, Highway Tampa, and Operation Shingle maps)

**LordKelvin** · 10-13-2009, 12:42 PM

I dunno, I might be offended if I was being perused... however, if I was being pursued, I would consider that person situationally aware enough that I can engage them.

**Mixa** · 10-13-2009, 12:44 PM

I was once commander and silver was after my assets. I met him on the roof and he didn't fire, and out of curiosity I did not contact him either so we ended up standing there till he run off after couple of seconds.

So if its obvious following (you have been spotted and he is chasing close enogh) you should be allowed to kill him, if he just spots you its no go.

**Aumen1** · 10-13-2009, 12:44 PM

Thanks Zor for posting the rule

I would give you +rep but seems I need to spread it around

**Zoraster** · 10-13-2009, 12:49 PM

A CO who follows you in an attempt to essentially put his barrel to your temple is trying to use the rules in a way they weren't intended. I'm not sure why someone would follow you if not to try and either (1) position themselves in a way to kill you best or (2) repair the assets you've blown. In either case, it's allowed. In the first, they've begun the process of engaging you in combat. In the second, it's expressly allowed.

You'd better be pretty clear that they're following you and not trying to get to a vehicle that's behind you or something like that.

**Fruvous** · 10-13-2009, 12:52 PM

There is a certain time when following someone constitutes as "intent to kill", where killing someone becomes an act of self-defense rather than aggression.

**Grim.the.Grim** · 10-13-2009, 12:59 PM

If someone is actively following me, that would indicate to me they are attempting to get close enough to engage, or attempting to line up for a shot.

**jazy2** · 10-13-2009, 01:14 PM

It has always been my understanding of the rule that someone chasing after me is fair game.

Supposing the guy might have a shotty and I'm too far away for it to be effective. Am I supposed to wait until he closes the distance to point blank "one shot kill" range? I would have no chance. If I decide he is after me for sure, then that guy is fair game for me AND my squad to kill (even if he hasn't engaged the rest of my squad yet.)

Be careful if you decide to take a tank or APC to chase down an assets squad, you may lose that asset also if a recon gets behind you. Even your own Rorsche in YOUR UCB is usable by the assets squad to defend themselves.

All the above is MY understanding......don't take it as Gospel unless it is seconded by an admin!

**snooggums** · 10-13-2009, 01:16 PM

I voted no because it is a slippery slope from "He was chasing me therefore he was engaged" to "He looked like he was going to engage me because he pointed his gun at me" when a person turns in place. My take on a hostile combatants would be enemies that have fired on you already or are chasing you with a knife out (instead of firing).

One of the quoted things that do break the rules is:

Quote:

Killing reinforcements in the UCB (enemies that haven't yet engaged in combat.)

I just don't think movement should count as 'combat' unless the movement is clearly to engage in combat through knife fighting.

We had this issue in PR (the BF2 mod) before they removed all destroyable UCB assets. The PR rules went from only return fire when in an enemy UCB to no firing/knifing period while in the enemies base to avoid the possibility of spawn camping as it can be hard to tell if someone is actually sees you or is even aware that you are an enemy. When the rule was no engaging while in the enemies UCB it simply meant you needed to be more stealthy while destroying the assets and didn't slow down the destruction. I had plenty of times where the enemy looked at me and turned away to do something else not realizing I was an enemy in their UCB.

**Lyramion** · 10-13-2009, 01:18 PM

I think we should allow baserape on TG - that would spice up the game and easen the work of the admins

**austforbeer** · 10-13-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazy2

Even your own Rorsche in YOUR UCB is usable by the assets squad to defend themselves.

I have trouble believing this. Can we get confirmation?

**Lorax74** · 10-13-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordKelvin

if I was being pursued, I would consider that person situationally aware enough that I can engage them.

I would caution against using using situational awareness as a way of defining whether or not a hostile has engaged you or not, but you are definitely on the right track. A "reinforcement" can be situationally aware yet not entered into an engagement.

If someone has obviously taken enough interest in you to chase you around the UCB then I would say they have engaged you.

A word of caution for those that enter into the UCB with the intention of destroying hostile assets and keeping them destroyed: your focus should be on the assets, not baiting people into engaging you or seeing what they will do if they know you're there.

**jazy2** · 10-13-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austforbeer

I have trouble believing this. Can we get confirmation?

Just to clarify, I meant if you take a vehicle to hunt down the assets squad they could use the Rorsche.

**Damonte** · 10-13-2009, 01:59 PM

Some finer points on UCB engagement rules to note.

Someone following you around when in an enemy UCB doesn't necessarily indicate intent to engage. When Damonte notices enemy asset teams in his own UCB, he may choose to follow that team around (at a respectful distance to avoid taking injury from RDX on assets). When he does so, he'll be brandishing a medic hub, an ammo box, a repair gun, or something non-combat to indicate his "non-combatant" status. Granted, part of this is due to his admin role and he may be choosing to ensure that UCB engagement rules are being properly followed.

While engineers repairing assets may be killed without provocation, seeing someone running around with a repair gun out (such as the afore mentioned Damonte), doesn't mean they are automatically fair game.