Enough Team Stacking Threads

[Mordona]

I found this post made by asch. Its one of those post that really make my job eaiser so I don't have to write it up. So far, stack cries have been low and posts have been sparse. But I like to keep proactive and make sure we are on top of things and the community remains informed.

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A game like BF2142 doesn't rely solely on twitch skills, but more on leadership and teamwork. So when we talk about team stacking what is implied is that one side has better teamwork. We can continue to start threads about team stacking and how players switch sides, that team has more IHS players, that team has more tagged players, that team blah blah blah, and blame the winning team / players...

... or we can try to address the deficiency on the losing team.

There is going to be a variety of reason that one team wins and more often than not it is going to be teamwork and communication. We need to raise the bar for our community and help others become better at these. We (as in the whole community) needs to work towards enhancing the teamwork / communication skill of others.

So here is what I want to see:

1) After Action Reports (AARs)

I don't mean simple write-ups and congratulatory postings about a round. AARs are more than a thread about an event. One of the main purposes of an AAR is to teach others what went right and to learn about what went wrong. Let's see more detail about a particular strategy or tactic that worked. Highlight this key point so that others can read an learn from it. And on the flip side let's write about what went wrong. What strategy or tactic failed. Why did it fail? What could have been done differently?

2) Learn TG / Learn SL squads

There are at least two types of learning squads that can help out players. The first is the basic Learn TG squad. The purpose of this squad is to introduce players to TG and how we play the game. Not only should they be learning about TG, but they should be learning about how to communicate effectively and how to work efficiently as a squad / team.

The second type of squad is the Learn SL squad. This is the next level of training where a player learns how to lead a squad. This requires that an experienced SL is in the squad as grunt and acts as a mentor. It also requires that the other squad members stick it out with the new SL and provide constructive feedback instead of leaving for another squad. Leaving the squad hurts your team and the growth of the community.

How these squads operate also make great content for AARs.

3) Let's focus on #1 and #2 for now


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Now that we have a few things to work on, here's what else I want to happen...

No more team stacking threads

These threads are not helping and only drag on the community / morale. Teams will wipe out other teams, get used to it. If you're thinking about starting one of these threads here is what you should be asking yourself...

A) Have you participated in an AAR about the event in question? If not then do so. We'll be able to identify areas where a team was lacking or made a tactical mistake. There is a lot to learn from these types of threads that will have a longer lasting effect to the increased quality of rounds.

If you're not participating in these then you don't get to complain.

B) Were you (or have you been) participating in the learn TG/SL squads? If not then do so. If you did, what is there to learn from it and was it documented in an AAR?

If you're not stepping up to lead then you don't get to complain.
If you're leaving these squads then you don't get to complain.


If you're not trying to make things better by working with others in the community then you don't get to complain.


Now... if you're working hard on the aforementioned items then make a post in the contact-an-admin (CAA) forum to discuss it with the admin team. Do not start a new public thread. Point the admin to the AAR thread about the round in question and explain to them why you think there is legitimate stacking.

If the community cannot come together to work on these things then the effort is already lost. Don't let it come to that.

Credits to Asch for this post.


Eroak's notes:

No one should have to ask players to switch teams in the case of multiable rounds of over bearing wins. Players that aquire leadship skills and know how to use them should be the ones that make the call to switch teams. Not squad members! Most stacks come from to many good SLs on one team. So if there is a stack, let the SLs switch teams. Anything else might hinder the team if you don't intend on leading.

[Zhohar]

A game like BF2142 doesn't rely solely on twitch skills, but more on leadership and teamwork. So when we talk about team stacking what is implied is that one side has better teamwork.

Not true.
Yes, teamwork is wonderful, but completely discounting a player's level of experience and skill when speaking about teamstacking is not really constructive to the discussion.

[Zoraster]

perhaps we could do a test with reader's internal scrim for a round. Zhohar gets to pick his favorite 30 players, but they are not allowed to talk or communicate in any way during the round. In fact, they aren't allowed to form squads at all. The other 31 players get to use communication including VoiP and do get to form squads.

Of course that doesn't cover small scale teamwork such as reviving... and it still leaves open the idea of communicating by movement (e.g. player 1 starts to attack Com Tower so the rest follow), but it'd severely limit teamwork.

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No, I'm not really suggesting we do it. More of a thought experiment. I'm not sure there's an easy answer to this one.

[Zhohar]

perhaps we could do a test with reader's internal scrim for a round. Zhohar gets to pick his favorite 30 players, but they are not allowed to talk or communicate in any way during the round. In fact, they aren't allowed to form squads at all. The other 31 players get to use communication including VoiP and do get to form squads.

Of course that doesn't cover small scale teamwork such as reviving... and it still leaves open the idea of communicating by movement (e.g. player 1 starts to attack Com Tower so the rest follow), but it'd severely limit teamwork.

---
No, I'm not really suggesting we do it. More of a thought experiment. I'm not sure there's an easy answer to this one.

I never argued against teamwork. I said that discounting a player's experience when talking about teamstacking is not constructive.
I don't believe the issue is as simple as "you guys didn't teamwork enough."

[Zoraster]

Oh, I understand. But I'm still kind of curious as to the result of the hypothetical I mentioned. I'm not even sure it's helpful here, but it is interesting.

[Mordona]

Not true.
Yes, teamwork is wonderful, but completely discounting a player's level of experience and skill when speaking about teamstacking is not really constructive to the discussion.

I never argued against teamwork. I said that discounting a player's experience when talking about teamstacking is not constructive.
I don't believe the issue is as simple as "you guys didn't teamwork enough."

Are twitch skills going to solve teamstacking? Are they going to help if no one is willing to lead? How does one learn to build skills if there are no AARs to help promote growth from mistakes commonly made?

[Fruvous]

Don't underestimate the value of strong squadmembers.
A SL can't do much if his team can't win any engagements.

"Twitch skills" isn't the only thing that defines a strong infantryman. It's also their ability to place rockets, grenades. Their ability to read the map for contacts, their ability to position themselves tactically.

A good squadmember might be able to follow orders (ie. put rockets here), but unless if he has a certain amount of skill, the order can be rendered pointless.

I guess a good way to think about 'skill' is the ability to follow orders. There's a big difference between a group of players who are willing to follow orders, and a group of players who are able to complete the objective.

Teamwork and good orders? They are a force multiplier to skill. They aren't the end-all solution, but as Zhohar put it, is still a wonderful thing.

[Zhohar]

Teamwork and good orders? They are a force multiplier to skill. They aren't the end-all solution, but as Zhohar put it, is still a wonderful thing.

What's also a wonderful thing? TGU Classes.
Instead of becoming grumpy old men grumbling about them younguns' trying to PK rocket APCs, we ought to be teaching the newer crowd things we take for granted.

And there's *plenty* of smart people here who could be doing that.

[Housekeeper]

I like this constructive approach to team-stacking complaints whether they be through an angry forum post, TS main channel comments, or even in-squad comments about the other team - the problem with those is they often lead to finger pointing and the blame game as opposed to increased awareness / progress.

Asch does have it right, and we should be posting more AAR of questionable team balance rounds, as well as rounds that were very well balanced, to show what those teams looked like as well. Also as pointed out TGU is probably one of the best ways to improve this aspect of 2142. Whatever we can do to have more of those rounds that end like 1-0 where all 48 players are having just as much fun as the top squads.

Food for thought: perhaps a TGU course on teaching TGU courses might be a good idea - thus multiplying the amount of instructers and subsequently courses. This may coax some experienced TGers who are good SL's and may make a great instructor, but are shy or unsure of their abilities in a TGU instructor role. After all, the current TGU instructors do uphold a very high standard to live up to /end blatant ass kissing

[Fruvous]

[random]But who will teach the people who teach the instructors??[/random]

[black_Mirror]

Strong Squadmember might not be underestimated but i have to agree that a good SL is worth a few good Squadmember in my opinion.

[random]But who will teach the people who teach the instructors??[/random]

These fearless warriors are forged in battle and tempered in blood. Only Experience through fighting will bring these glorious shiny beacons of light known as our heroic Squadleaders to our server.

[Aumen1]

Great post! I would like to add that every time I see team-stacking corrected or over corrected I see the people that are typically TG Squad Leaders switching teams to try to balance to make the only major impact. Obviously there are exceptions to this but overall in all my time in 2142, it is these people that are leaders using good teamwork that determine the balance. We need more people to lead, we need more teamwork and we will have more fun.

[MrMojay]

If you cannot take the heat, stay in the kitchen and fight your way out!

Balanced or not I am bringing my game!, depending on the orders of my SL of course, or the orders I may give as a squad leader.

[Jimmy Jammer]

Please define "Twitch Skills".

[oniell121]

Please define "Twitch Skills".

As I have always defined it, "twitch skills" refers to a players ability to react quickly usually in firing their weapon. Pretty much their reaction time. Say you're assaulting Power Station on Tunis. You try to come in from the south right around the back of that southern building. As you're walking up a guy walks around the corner in front of you. Now, if ping were the same and the game did not decide to glitch right then, the reflexes AKA twitch time would decide the winner. Who would fire first?

Anyway, that's how I've always described it. Others may have a different view, but it's a pretty good overview.