Re: Fall of Berlin snipers spawn camping.

**Trooper** · 02-01-2007, 03:56 PM

no clarification should be needed. The rules clearly state what is allowed and not allowed on TG servers. And if you need clarification that should be handled in a PM to the admins themselves.

**Zoraster** · 02-01-2007, 04:06 PM

i have to admit, i'm getting pretty damn tired of anybody who wants to discuss anything about the rules getting riduculed for not knowing/understanding/whatever the SOPs and rules.

Come on. This message board exists for a reason, and a discussion on how we play at TG should be welcomed -- it leads to better gaming on our server when people REALLY understand the rules. He clearly has read the rules, and so I see no reason why he can't post on it. Why should he have to bother a particular admin? It's not like he's got a problem with a particular player or he's locked -- individual problems that obviously shouldn't be addressed.

No, this is a subject that belongs on the message boards, and just because he's got some questions about something in the SOPs doesn't mean he's unaware of the rules or is somehow lazy.

Yes, i think he didn't immediately grasp the entire point behind the rule, but that doesn't mean he was wrong for asking about it. Lay off.

PS. This only applies sometimes. A lot of times there are posts from people who obviously haven't bothered read the rules. These kind of posts are different from the ones above, and referring them to the SOPs seems perfectly acceptable.

**DeadOnAim** · 02-01-2007, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

i have to admit, i'm getting pretty damn tired of anybody who wants to discuss anything about the rules getting riduculed for not knowing/understanding/whatever the SOPs and rules.

Come on. This message board exists for a reason, and a discussion on how we play at TG should be welcomed -- it leads to better gaming on our server when people REALLY understand the rules. He clearly has read the rules, and so I see no reason why he can't post on it. Why should he have to bother a particular admin? It's not like he's got a problem with a particular player or he's locked -- individual problems that obviously shouldn't be addressed.

No, this is a subject that belongs on the message boards, and just because he's got some questions about something in the SOPs doesn't mean he's unaware of the rules or is somehow lazy.

Yes, i think he didn't immediately grasp the entire point behind the rule, but that doesn't mean he was wrong for asking about it. Lay off.

I very much agree with this post. Well stated. Why have a message board if we can't have meaningful discussions about the games we play? Thats what we are here for right?

Trooper, thanks for telling me whats best for me and what I can think about and discuss here and then how to handle my concerns and clairifications and whether I even need those concerns and clairifications addressed or not. How did TG survive before this guy got here?

**Mordona** · 02-01-2007, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bommando

what if EA brings out an expansion pack with a raccoon cannon? You know, one that spreads rabies in the enemy UCB ...

god help us! I think I'm going to keep this quote in a file for later use.

**Jaykay** · 02-01-2007, 04:41 PM

Ah let me chime in here; what made this even more annoying were the well-meaning revivers who repeatedly pop me back to life in full view of campers ... over and over, so Im dead, alive, dead, alive, hmm .. DEAD .. and by that time, my head is in my hands and shortly thereafter I vent on the forum.

**Trooper** · 02-01-2007, 04:45 PM

read the first post, again. Anywhere in that post did he have any questions or concerns about the spawn camping? He wasnt asking for clarification he was venting. And being helpful to his cuase i stated that if there is an issue, which there was, to contact an admin becuase there is no reason for anyone to have a bad game on TG servers.

Then people start giving what ifs, then i believe bommando handled that part really well. The server rules are very clear, black and white. Spawn camping is against the server rules regardless of whats going on. Spawn camping is clearly defined in the rules, as killing people at a spawn within seconds of spawning and not giving the person due time to get to cover or out.

If you have an issue with a player or member PM them handle it there. Forums aren't for airing your issues out.

**Iamthefallen** · 02-01-2007, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

there is no reason for anyone to have a bad game on TG servers.

Incorrect.

There is lots of reasons to be annoyed and have a bad night, far from all of them are covered by rules or the TG spirit. People get annoyed because the other sides bomber is devastating, because a sniper keeps killing them, because the CO's plan isn't working, because their SL is inexperienced, because they lag, because the weapon is inaccurate, because an AntiTank squad keeps shooting them, because an enemy squad keeps running right over them, because of any number of other reasons.

I think at some point someone has requested admin interference with all of the above, and I'm sure there are plenty that I've missed.

As far as I understand, TG is not about making sure every game is a good game, it's about creating an atmosphere that allows for the good games to take place. Having a good game, or not, is not up to the admins, it's up to the players.

It is annoying as all hell when a good sniper is covering your position, but it is not against the rules. Spawn camping is very different from simply covering a flag. I was hoping my example above would make the difference clear. If it's that annoying, either adjust your tactic in-game, or put the mouse down and go do something else for a bit.

Edit:
I also don't mind the rants and vents in the forums, even if they are repetitive (I'm sure Bommando disagrees

). If it leads to more people thinking about their actions as well as their reactions, that's a good thing. The occasional discussion about rules, even if it has taken place a hundred times before, serves as a refresher for old members or an introduction for the new ones. The problem comes when we start down the road of "there ought to be a law" for every annoyance.

**Revark** · 02-01-2007, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bommando

..... a quagmire of disinformation and ambiguity ...

Good words!

And thanks for the clarification. I agree, PM an admin. Or a long time TG member if you dont want to bother an admin.

**Trooper** · 02-01-2007, 06:16 PM

fallen you are correct. Plenty of things go into a bad night. But there is no reason for a TG member to have to suffer his game play because another is breaking a rule.

**DirtyLude** · 02-01-2007, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

Spawn camping is clearly defined in the rules, as killing people at a spawn within seconds of spawning and not giving the person due time to get to cover or out.

I didn't read that at all. The rule states that spawn camping is waiting 'camping' with the intent to kill someone at a spawn. It doesn't say that you cannot kill someone who has just spawned right in front of you while you are actively engaged in assaulting a flag. Your definition and the rule is different.

**Trooper** · 02-01-2007, 06:58 PM

"Spawn camping" requires a certain INTENT. To spawn camp, it must be your INTENT to EXPLOIT a player's post-spawn lack of orientation while attacking that player. You are sitting (camp), waiting to attack a player immediately after he enters gameplay (spawn). This is spawn camping, and it is not allowed on Tactical Gamer's BF2142 server.

Spawn camping is clearly defined in the rules, as killing people, while you camp, at a spawn within seconds of spawning and not giving the person due time to get to cover or out.

there i fixed it. Engageing an enemy at a spawn while trying to take the flag is one thing but to sit outside of one and pick them off while they spawn just sucks.

**jepzilla** · 02-01-2007, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bommando

For those expecting an answer from the admins in this thread, you'll be waiting a long time. We don't deal with "what ifs", we deal with each situation as it comes.

We don't do the "what if I shoot someone who just spawned, but a magical elephant falls from the sky and crushes him before I take the shot. This registers as a kill for the magical elephant, but I get the kill assist. Does this means I get half-kicked from the server for half-kill-assisting the spawner? What happens to the magical elephant if I don't get a screenshot. of course, I didn't report it on TeamSpeak because you don't have a rule about it. In fact, it didn't even happen, but I thought I'd ask in case it did. While we're on the subject, what if EA brings out an expansion pack with a raccoon cannon? You know, one that spreads rabies in the enemy UCB ... " type questions for a reason. Because there are so many variables, you can't make a rule for them all, nor do we wish to. We like to rely on a thing called common sense among our players to get them through those hard times.

Sounds like a slow day at work guys

Just to be clear, in this specific circumstance the admin action will to direct you to a more reputable dealer

**IMI-50AE** · 02-01-2007, 10:17 PM

Yeah, I'm reluctant to enter this 'debate', but I would like to point something out. Spawn camping and Sniping are very similar. Your job as a sniper is to eliminate the enemy with a single well-aimed round. Thus, you have to use a powerful rifle that has the unfortunate characteristic of being a single-shot, bolt-action (I know there are semi-auto rifles, but 2142 doesn't seem to use them and so I won't mention them to muddy this up), clumsy weapon that is better used as a club than a rifle close up and personal. Oh, and did I mention his secondary weapon is a pistol? Hmm, must have missed that. Anyway, those, shall we say, characteristics 'force' the sniper to take up a position which is 'hidden' (I know, not totally), usually elevated, and offers an excellent line-of-sight. Unfortunately, these parameters tend to describe positions that overlook flags. That's good from an attacking standpoint, or a defending if you can catch them unawares, beating off to an easy capture point.

Now, in light of the posts, I'm going to say UCB sniping, BAD!!!. I don't care IF they ARE firing back, don't put rifle rounds in there! Wait, give them a chance. It's a game, and if only a couple of people are having fun, and the rest aren't, clearly, there's a problem. I'm not touching that, however. If you're sniping at a captureable flag, I can acknowledge(sp) that you are 'concerned' that you'll get attacked up close and wasted. APMs aside, a sniper shouldn't be engaged at close range, unless ambushed. That's where the squad comes in. And your squad is with your sniper, right? Riiiiiight, so they should be moving on the flag while you provide overwatch, ID of targets, and neutralization of threats (read: shooting people). If you're just sitting there capping people as they respawn, and you have no intent of actually taking that flag, well, to borrow a line from Mr. T, "I pity da fool!"

My $0.02

**Rick_the_new_guy** · 02-01-2007, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bommando

We don't do the "what if I shoot someone who just spawned, but a magical elephant falls from the sky and crushes him...

LMAO!!

I was just getting ready to post this. lol.

___

For real guys, if your CO or infantry/assaulting units in your platoon are not attacking the given flag, and show no interst in the flag, as a sniper or whatever, you SHOULD refrain from waiting until someone spawns in and taking a shot at them.

Instead focus more on recon for your team and provide intell on the situation at the flag to your SL or CO.

EDIT. I read the rest of the posts.

Just in case someone is in the dark. During an assault, killing someone when they spawn in is cool.

Furthremore, the sniper who has a perch over the enemy enchampemnt can help out with the assualt by sniping those who spawn in. Granted, I do not like this and feel it is cheap.

Now, one lone wolf running to a flag is not an assault, that is dead meat.

Use good judgment and show good form to your fellow gamers.
I mean would'nt you want to spawn in and have a fighting chance?

**Jaykay** · 02-02-2007, 12:02 AM

?? No props for the 2RL (Rabid Racoon Launcher) sig?

Do I need to add a magical elephant? DO I?!!

Don't make me do it.

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