Re: TG Servers and Northern Strike

**Lyramion** · 02-28-2007, 08:59 AM

- and 2 Maps of Titan in the cycle!

**jonan_** · 02-28-2007, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

- and 2 Maps of Titan in the cycle!

I second that.

**AlexTaldren** · 02-28-2007, 10:39 AM

The reason why this booster pack won't work out is because we aren't backing it. You have to make the decision to either back it or not to back it.

Also, you can't compare this to other BF "booster packs" because they weren't really booster packs, they were "expansion packs." The expansion packs were between $25 and $35 and completely changed gameplay, etc. Northern Strike is more or less like a huge update. I don't understand how anyone could compare this to a $30 expansion pack. It is $10, and it includes three new maps and a bunch of unlocks, etc.

Northern Strike isn't going to change BF 2142 drastically. If it was a $30 expansion pack then I could see where the hesitation could be coming from.

I say, put NS on the main server. Rotate the three new maps into the current mix. So it would be something like, "REG MAP, REG MAP, NS MAP, REG MAP, REG MAP, NS MAP, etc."

In order for NS to survive, clan servers need to support it fully.

**DirtyLude** · 02-28-2007, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by AlexTaldren

Also, you can't compare this to other BF "booster packs" because they weren't really booster packs, they were "expansion packs." The expansion packs were between $25 and $35 and completely changed gameplay, etc. Northern Strike is more or less like a huge update. I don't understand how anyone could compare this to a $30 expansion pack. It is $10, and it includes three new maps and a bunch of unlocks, etc.

Special Forces was the only Expansion Pack for BF2. Euro Force and Armored Fury were $10 booster packs and are directly comparable to Northern Strike.

In BF2 it was decided to officially support these packs on the main server because BF2 usage was declining and people were seriously bored of the standard maps. It boosted participation for a little while.

I support the Admin decision to use the second server, but I don't have much problem with lag on the second server, so I guess it would depend on how bad it gets.

**Tempus** · 02-28-2007, 11:47 AM

Guys, the server with booster packs running will have players on it, just as the regular server does now. We will offer the same gameplay there as we do now.

The population will be there. What is the problem? If you want to play boosters, you join the booster server. If you want to play regular 2142, you join the regular server.

If by some chance everyone in the community gets the boosters, well then we can put them all on the same server. Until then, each side has a server to play on.

**Zoraster** · 02-28-2007, 03:08 PM

"Guys, the server with booster packs running will have players on it, just as the regular server does now. "

Just as the second server does now? I think the second server is a far more relevant comparison to make than the main server. In fact, it's a great example. Titan mode is almost an entirely different game from Conquest mode. Many people on TG far prefer Titan mode to Conquest. Yet after the initial interest of a month, those people had to give up on Titan mode because they'd rather play with the rest of TG... even if it's a game they prefer less. I'm not saying this is bad (although I'd argue that one titan map a map rotation is a good idea), but the idea that if there are people who happen to like NS means the server will fill up has proven -- time and again -- to be false.

"The population will be there. What is the problem? If you want to play boosters, you join the booster server. If you want to play regular 2142, you join the regular server."

The problem is that we really want Northern strike to succeed if it proves to be any good. We're all a bit tired of the same old business on the same old maps. But given the choice between launching in immediately and playing the same boring maps but with everyone we like and waiting around in an empty server hoping that people will seed it with you... which do you think people are going to pick?

A month later, people aren't going to be willing to do that... especially if we keep it on a server that's consistently laggy (and thus has a much harder time bringing in pubs to fill the ranks until regulars log in).

I feel like this is falling on deaf ears though. You've made your choice, and that's fine. They're your servers to do with as you wish.

At the very least, I ask you to put the vanilla game on the second server and make the main server for Northern Strike.

EDIT: Maybe the new booster pack will suck. Maybe it'll be awful. I wasn't too impressed with many aspects of it. But with TG standards it probably won't be bad. It should at least be given a chance to shake things up a bit.

**Sir_Brass** · 02-28-2007, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

I feel like this is falling on deaf ears though. You've made your choice, and that's fine. They're your servers to do with as you wish.

Makes you wonder about that monthly contribution you're making, doesn't it?

**Zoraster** · 02-28-2007, 03:22 PM

Well, to be fair, I'm paying to have access as a supporting member. I'm not entitled to decide the policy of TG's servers, and nothing in the agreement suggested otherwise.

Still, I think it is a good idea to listen with an open mind to supporting members.

**Tempus** · 02-28-2007, 03:25 PM

It is very unfair to say that your arguments are falling on deaf ears.. We listen to all the members, but that doesn't mean that each member is going to have his or her wish fulfilled.

You have to understand that we have been thru this before with BF2, and we've learned from there. Arguments comparing this to how titan mode ended up are inappropriate too, as I sense there are more players interested in the boosters than were interested in titan mode.

I suggest you guys just wait and see how this turns out before starting with all the gloom-and-doom.

**Sir_Brass** · 02-28-2007, 03:36 PM

I will be waiting to see how this turns out, but those saying it'll be okay on the 2nd server seem to give arguments that have a rose-colored-glasses view of human nature that we've seen proven over and over again on our servers.

It just seems to me that the valid, reasonable arguements are all being given for putting NS on server 1. We need to remember that putting it on server 2 is asking folks to be selfLESS in terms of their gaming....even in TG this is more an exception than a rule. TGers have only a certain amount of patience, and if server 1 is fuller, and a handful wanting to play NS are on server 2, they'll play a round or two, decide that there just aren't enough people and most will slide on over back to server 1. And those are the ones that decided to be more selfless and try and seed the server.

To get people who are very skeptical about NS to GET IT, we need to give them an incentive: make the server that everyone plays on currently be the NS server. Putting it on server 2 makes getting NS an "option", and with some folks that option will then not be takable (like with the European and Australian folks who have nearly unplayable ping on server 2 as witnessed in the scrim), and with others, it will be totally ignored.

Also take into account that server2 is notably laggy for most folks in the first place. I am one of the few that gets better ping on it than others. Most folks, even folks in the US, have pings in the 200s and up on it. Poor Eroak had a ping of 260 on it during the scrim....a ping he ought NOT to have if he lives in this country (bom gets that ping from Australia to the VA server).

All in all, I'd say a good number of us just are NOT happy with server 2 at all. And thus our view is that putting the booster on server 2 will spell the death of that booster, not b/c of anything wrong WITH the booster, but because of PEOPLE. People's preconceptions, prejudices, and general computer performance with bf2 boosters and with server 2's performance in general: NONE of which have anything to do with NS....yet it will significantly affect NS at TG none-the-less. Unfair to NS, yes. Very VERY human-like? Yessir, you betcha.

**Cappy** · 02-28-2007, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Sir_Brass

Makes you wonder about that monthly contribution you're making, doesn't it?

exactly,, i am a supporting member and i prolly will only play 2142 so is my choice falling on deaf ears????

not everyone will get the booster and thats fact so everyone that doesnt get it gets punished????

i dont think so

**Zoraster** · 02-28-2007, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Tempus

It is very unfair to say that your arguments are falling on deaf ears.. We listen to all the members, but that doesn't mean that each member is going to have his or her wish fulfilled.

You have to understand that we have been thru this before with BF2, and we've learned from there. Arguments comparing this to how titan mode ended up are inappropriate too, as I sense there are more players interested in the boosters than were interested in titan mode.

I suggest you guys just wait and see how this turns out before starting with all the gloom-and-doom.

There's a difference between not having our wishes fulfilled, and having our argument discounted entirely.

Which is what "The population will be there. What is the problem? If you want to play boosters, you join the booster server. If you want to play regular 2142, you join the regular server" does. Because we've pretty thoroughly established that it's not just a simple choice of picking one or the other.

"You have to understand that we have been thru this before with BF2, and we've learned from there."

What was learned though? That it could be a total failure? I agree wholeheartedly. And I understand it seems like having two servers would offer a backup if the booster sucks. But what really happens is that it dooms the booster from the start.

I have to wonder whether this "solution" is offered because those who have been "through it before" know the booster will fail no matter what happens, and this gives the illusion of TG support without risking a very popular TG server. I wouldn't blame them if these thoughts occurred to them.

"Arguments comparing this to how titan mode ended up are inappropriate too, as I sense there are more players interested in the boosters than were interested in titan mode."

It's not a 1:1 comparison by any means, but I wouldn't say it's inappropriate. It's the closest thing we have to a test case available to us.

"I suggest you guys just wait and see how this turns out before starting with all the gloom-and-doom"

I hope it's a bang up success. And I hope I'm utterly and completely wrong. I hope this brings about 30 new supporting members and keeps two strong, full servers without any lag going 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

But again, not all wishes get fulfilled.

**Arf** · 02-28-2007, 05:58 PM

For those of you not aware TG went to great extents to support the boosters for BF2. It turned into a complete disaster and BF play didn't recover until the release of PoE. Since they aren't making a PoE mod for BF:2142 putting the booster on a different server is a prudent decision.

The problem with the boosters is that they're basicaly mods. They may be cheap mods but it's still a mod. The only way it's going to survive is with a community of it's own within the BF2142 community in the same way that CS and DoD came out of Half-Life.

If NS can't create it's own community of fans it's going to die out. The original boosters for BF2 weren't able to accomplish that and died out on the majority of servers, hence the concern of the admins. It makes much more sense to replace the Titan/City server that never really took off rather then replace or displace the already succesful Conquest community we have.

**Zoraster** · 02-28-2007, 06:13 PM

And I think that's fine, but I don't think we should be under any illusion that we really expect it to succeed in the long run even if it's great. It'll be there for something different to do for a few weeks and then die out completely. That's fine in the grand scheme of things, but I wouldn't operate under the assumption that our second server is anything other than a possibly fun, almost certainly temporary distraction.

**Zid** · 02-28-2007, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Arf

For those of you not aware TG went to great extents to support the boosters for BF2. It turned into a complete disaster and BF play didn't recover until the release of PoE. Since they aren't making a PoE mod for BF:2142 putting the booster on a different server is a prudent decision.

The problem with the boosters is that they're basicaly mods. They may be cheap mods but it's still a mod. The only way it's going to survive is with a community of it's own within the BF2142 community in the same way that CS and DoD came out of Half-Life.

If NS can't create it's own community of fans it's going to die out. The original boosters for BF2 weren't able to accomplish that and died out on the majority of servers, hence the concern of the admins. It makes much more sense to replace the Titan/City server that never really took off rather then replace or displace the already succesful Conquest community we have.

imo the content in NS is far superior to both boosters combined and i'm hoping this will fuel the community not to mention pretty much everyone will want to get it for the unlocks.

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