UCB questions

**machowner** · 07-20-2007, 04:08 PM

This was started over in the Gentleman Agreement and I didn't want to keep getting that thread off track. Here is what was going on.

Originally Posted by gyrobot

Before I sign this, is the tactic of launching a sabatoge raid (With all permission granted of course) In order to reduce combat efficiency of the enemy's ability to mount support allowed? Because sabatoge tactics are perfectly a-ok with special ops.

Originally Posted by sc1ence

Players are not allowed into the enemy UCB for any reason other than for the sole purpose of destroying the enemy's assets (artillery/uav/radar). Restricted acts include:

1. Entering the UCB with the intent on killing a disoriented spawning player.
2. Entering the UCB with the intent of stealing any vehicle.
3. Flying over the UCB for air raids / bombing runs.
4. Entering the UCB with the intent to lay mines / c4.

These acts are restricted not to deny valid real-life tactics, but to ensure the quality of game play.

Originally Posted by D0ubl3Hel1x

Or a better wayt to look at it only enter the UCB to destroy strategic assets (not vehicles) and leave.

Well that is what I thought Double, I was just trying to get Sc1ence to clarify his statement because the guy was asking specifically about mounted support. That statement brings to mind APCs and walkers. Sc1ence didn't state that the vehicles could not be destoyed, just not stolen. It would give a covert operation a higher level of survival if you could destory the APC and tanks before leaving. Not to mention make it a much more effective tactic. I understand that putting RDX on an APC and waiting for a squad to jump is just plain noobish but if there is no one back there, why not destroy it?

Another note I would ask to be clarified is whether a sniper is allowed to hop in a FAV to get away. I noticed in video done by some TG guys that they did steal the FAV to get away. I don't see a problem with it and just want an official word on it.

**Zoraster** · 07-20-2007, 05:01 PM

this seems to be one of those things that's hard for people to understand, and justifiably so as it's a rather nuanced rule simply because unlike many of our rules, it's put in to increase the enjoyment of our servers rather than any of our core values at TG (although the rule does keep pubbies concerned with objectives more, so it definitely has a purpose).

Basically, it's this. You can only enter the UCB with the sole intention of destroying commander assets. If someone fires on you or tries to repair those assets, you're free to take them out, but not until then. You may take an enemy FAV to escape as long as taking it wasn't your purpose of entering in the first place. The other vehicles are probably off limits.

**HockeyTemper** · 07-20-2007, 05:03 PM

I think this area is way too gray to allow for any sort of ruling other than a firm yes or no. If you say that you can only destroy unmanned vehicles then a person could lay RDX under the known spawn point and just wait for it to spawn. If that is allowed then you should also be able to shoot anyone who is waiting for the vehicle to spawn.

If you say that players can use vehicles only for getaway purposes then how do you determine whether the person REALLY needed to get away in a hurry? Can you walk in and just grab an FAV or do you have to actually be fired at first. Is there a minimum number of assets I must destroy before taking a vehicle?

My feeling is that you should be able to enter the UCB to destroy assets and that is it. Personally, I don't even think you should fire on anyone EVEN IF they fire at you. That line is just way too gray as well. What if 2 out of 3 people in the UCB fire at you; can you kill them all (unless you are Guardian this probably wont pertain to you)? Can you fire on the enemy if you think that they are about to fire on you? What if you stumble across someone by accident and you are pretty sure they are about to shoot at you. Can you kill them first?

**jonathanshifty** · 07-20-2007, 05:14 PM

wat if u go 2 UCB to destroy assets and u find ur self getting shot at, could u shoot back at the enemy or do u have to hold ur fire?

**Pokerface** · 07-20-2007, 05:19 PM

I think we've established over the time we've run BF2/2142 (man, has it been so long) why you're allowed to go into a base -- kill assets and maybe live to tell the tale. The nuance becomes what you're allowed to do besides that.

Shoot people shooting at you? Sure... so long as the reason you're there was to kill assets, and not kill spawning players.

The trick to UCBs is focus: know why you went there to do and do it. Few will question your intentions if your focus is clear.

**DeimosManifest** · 07-20-2007, 05:19 PM

If they fire at you, cap em. Or if they run over to repair the asset you just blew up, shoot them. Then leave.

Edit: I'd leave the FAV alone, it's easier to just run anyway.

**MasterEditorInChief** · 07-20-2007, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Take a jet? Sure... so long as the reason you're taking it is to afford a speedy getaway, and you're not flying it around for the next 20 minutes killing opposing players.

The rules have gotten more stringent over time, as armored vehicles and jets are not allowed to be taken from enemy UCBs. Only the FAV can be used as a getaway vehicle is UCBs.

**Zoraster** · 07-20-2007, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by MasterEditorInChief

The rules have gotten more stringent over time, as armored vehicles and jets are not allowed to be taken from enemy UCBs. Only the FAV can be used as a getaway vehicle is UCBs.

yeah. this is my understanding too. it also makes it a lot easier for the admins. if you see someone taking an APC out of an enemy UCB, you know they're in violation without the ifs ands, buts.

**sc1ence** · 07-20-2007, 09:34 PM

You do not have to leave the UCB. You can stay there to make sure the CO assets stay destroyed.

You may not steal any vehicle in the base other than the FAV. You may use armor to support your mission, but bringing armor into their base to destroy their assets is ill advised.

Do not spawn camp, do not fire upon anyone until they have fired upon you or they have moved to repair the assets.

**Uranium - 235** · 07-20-2007, 11:18 PM

What about the commander? Taking out the assets AND the commander sounds pretty logical to me. Since he could just drop a crate to repair the assets or drop artillery on you when you get there...

**MasterEditorInChief** · 07-20-2007, 11:23 PM

I feel as if this thread is getting too long on an issue that's addressed in the Primer and server rules. Simply put:

1. You're only supposed to be in the UCB to take out assets. If you're not there for that purpose, actions will be taken.
2. If you take enemy armor out of their UCB, actions will be taken.
3. If you in a UCB to kill enemies that spawn in there, that is spawn camping and actions will be taken. The only exception is if the enemy shoots at you first.

**Zoraster** · 07-20-2007, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Uranium - 235

What about the commander? Taking out the assets AND the commander sounds pretty logical to me. Since he could just drop a crate to repair the assets or drop artillery on you when you get there...

it's logical, but so are other things in the UCB like stealing vehicles (it's not strictly "logical" to pass by the most powerful armor piece in the game and just to take out the UAV that's easily repairable.) But we make these rules for the enjoyment and overall effect of the game.

the commander is off limits in UCBs unless he engages.

**Rakkasan21** · 07-21-2007, 01:10 AM

I think you should run around in the UCB not destroying anything or killing anybody just running around and having everybody shoot at you and not die and thenthe enemy commander will get annoyed and arty you and thus murder himself

ok no seriously if you blow up the assets and find a good hiding spot and stay in the ucb as sc1ence says does that still really count as teamplay even tho ur basically just camping the assets and not really helping with the fight or does it count because ur destroyin the assets so its still teamplay? im a tad bit confused now

**Uranium - 235** · 07-21-2007, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Rakkasan21

ok no seriously if you blow up the assets and find a good hiding spot and stay in the ucb as sc1ence says does that still really count as teamplay even tho ur basically just camping the assets and not really helping with the fight or does it count because ur destroyin the assets so its still teamplay? im a tad bit confused now

I honestly don't see a problem with that, especially on maps like Camp Gib where the ever-popular and balance-wise completely broken map design allows one base to be captured while the other cannot (I've never understood what kind of special minds at DICE thought THAT up).

**Arf** · 07-21-2007, 01:33 AM

It's a rule designed to promote fairness. I think it's been over complicated by people that want to find a loop hole around it so they can camp UCBs or turn their UCB into a safe zone.

If you're executing players that are spawning into their UCB it's clear that isn't a fair tactic. If you're sitting on your spawn so you can line up players trying to blow up the Orbital it's fairly obvious that the UCB camping rule doesn't apply to you, so don't complain if someone shoots back.

It's a pretty common sense rule unless you're trying to bend it to help increase your score.