Aerosecurity

The spread of the Voss in my opinion is rather nice. It is absolutely deadly at ranges of <5m (well, all weapons are if you use them correctly).
The Baur's spread is equally nice. (this is because I'm usually kneeling and stationary when i fire). I just prefer the Voss because of the larger clip and the overall SMG feel.

As for the Lambert carbine, completely different in my opinion. It works best in very close range (<20m). Sure, the single fire is nice, but the damage is twice as worse as the Voss, and the spread is terrible at full automatic. However, it makes up for it with it's stability, versatility, and rapid fire. Truely a close quarters beast (again, if you use it well).

All of this depends on how you use your weapons. Each weapon has it's own way of being used. You really can't say which is better, because they are both better in different circumstances. And you may see one guy totally obliterate the enemy with his Voss, and another guy totally suck with it. Naturally, the former will say that the Voss is the best, and the latter will say that the Voss is total crap (and the other team will think that the Voss is overpowered and start shooting "Voss *****! Stop using the n00b weapon joo n00b!"). The same goes with the Baur.

Naturally, people are going to have their own opinions about each weapon. I think the only way to figure out which weapon is best (for you) is to actually go out and try it for yourself. Now, if you're looking for the exact stats of each weapon, try looking for a 2142 modding tool and look up the vanilla stats for each weapon.

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SharinganTH1422

+rep, exactly what I was going to say, even though its pretty obvious.

I personally prefer the Voss, (Krylov is awesome too) since I usually play on Camp (just look at the hours I've clocked up on it compared to all the other maps) and its much less about open spaces than most maps. I just find the Baur ridiculously difficult to use, call me crap, unskilled and n00bish, but if I pwn you with a Voss and you have a Baur, (which happens often, I always hear that familiar sound of a Baur going off, moments after I start spraying) don't complain that I'm "using the cheap weapon" which seems to happen a fair bit, (but actually this happens way less on TG servers than others...but still).

I have tried to use the Baur, the single shot just making way more sense, as the recoil of the Baur while in full-auto scope makes it about as accurate as shooting wildly after being EMPed, hoping you might just hit something. I have made some kills with it, but I just feel so useless with a Baur in my (virtual) hands, I just don't know how to shoot with it, it doesn't feel right, then I hesitate, and that one moment of hesitation earns you a death that makes you look like a n00b, standing there, trying to to get their aim right. The Voss just feels right, I can aim so much better with it, and hit targets so much quicker than they can hit me, I feel my reaction time and maneuverability is better with the Voss too, and I'm not fumbling, I feel confident taking on whole squads, whereas with the Baur I'm reluctant to approach soldiers sometimes, even if they are on their own, for fear of making a mistake that just makes you look like you got the game 2 seconds ago (I needed to find a new way of saying n00b...).

However I do highly rate skilled Baur users, we've all met the occasional psychopathic Baur user that can headshot at will (probably living in a cave in Albania playing this game 24/7 and not having seen sunlight for years...I'm not sure why I rate these people...?).

I fell in love with the Lambert before any of the assault rifles, its damage and accuracy were abysmal, but the dizzying rate of fire, and the lightness and compactness of it, plus its speedy reload time, made it perfect for close quarters, while among a squad, its not all dominating, but it gets the job done nicely, and with little fuss, we've all been gunned down while charging a Cerbere flag by a Lambert user, that seems to kill you almost as soon as they hit the trigger, and you think they've headshotted you, but when you get the Lambert, you see the power is in its speed and lightness, like most things, strength isn't everything, and speed, when used correctly, can outmatch a powerful weapon.

I'm not sure if I've ever laughed quite as hard at such a simple piece of text.

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Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

2 Para

i like the baur at range, but it close combat far too often i get killed by some noob with a voss, so i use the krylov, which kicks ass for me

Aerosecurity

Did you not read the above post? ;-)

Actually, the Baur is also rather good in close range combat, it's just a little bit awkward to use and takes some practice. I can consistently get kills against all weapons with the Baur at close range using bursts in full auto mode. It's just a matter of keeping your reticle on your target and placing accurate rounds into their chest. 2-4 rounds in the chest will usually take down all targets.

Granted if you go up against a skilled Voss or Krylov user, you're going to die (unless you use your surroundings to your advantage). But this is simply because the Voss is designed for close quarters engagements, whereas the Baur is designed for tactical marksmanship (long-range single-fire).

Naturally, the opinions of different people will vary greatly, again, by their style of play. Some people prefer long-range engagements, and others, like me, prefer up-close-and-personal. Those who prefer long-range will generally say the Baur/Scar/Krylov is better, whereas those who prefer close-quarters combat will typically stick to the Voss/Krylov (with a few exceptions to either side).

To be honest, I like all the Assault weapons. I can use each rather well in different circumstances. I find both the Scar and Krylov excellent in both medium and close range, the Baur better at medium-long range engagements, and the Voss for close to medium range (but generally for close range).

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SharinganTH1422

I can see you obviously rate my Voss skills very highly.

I have no patience, which is why I'm a rubbish sniper and I got bored of the Baur very quickly. I play with guns that I'm decent with in the beginning, and then I get amazing with them later on. As opposed to being rubbish with a weapon when I first pick it up, and then playing with it for ages and being decent with it. But yes the Baur is not a bad weapon, but I just feel very unsettled with it, as if I'm cheating on my sexy, loyal Voss, with a fat clunky pile of metal crap.

So do you want a medal or...?

Well if it's to the chest then you would never need 4 shots, but yh, pretty much, but with the recoil, this is much easier said than done, and in the time it takes you to get out those 4 slow shots of the Baur, the Voss has already stuck 10 in you.

Thanks for the compliment.

Yh, I heard this so much about the Baur before I got it, "it is so good at distance, like a rapid-fire sniper rifle, its so powerful and accurate." And I was really saving up for it, and I thought it would be amazing at range, and I was disappointed by the close-range, but I thought "o well, its long range weapon, as long as it balances out." And I started to feel over-obliged to use the Baur at range, like when I could use rockets, or when I should have just found cover, I felt like, "If I don't take this long-range shot, I won't be using the Baur properly." Even easy shots, I would miss, because I had used the Stabilizer for so long, I found it a pain hitting targets from single shots when my scope was swaying. And even then, if I hit the first shot, I would find it hard hitting the others, because it takes less damage than rifles, and after the recoil, even if it was just one shot, it would take me a few moments to reset my position.

I still do use the Baur occasionally, when I feel like giving it a chance again, but then I just get frustrated, get my Voss back and just start mowing people down. And at long range, tell me what's more effective, a Baur, or rockets? The Voss with rockets can take out all ranges, and I'm not sure why so many people say that the Voss isn't effective from mid-range, I get a lot of kills with a Voss from mid-range because of the lower recoil and higher fire rate, whereas the with the Baur, because the target is smaller if it is further away, the recoil has an even worse effect than at close range.

Now I've pretty much spent most of this post saying why I don't really like the Baur, I didn't go OTT, but I did criticise it a fair amount, so just for the record, I'm not saying the Baur is a terrible gun, in fact I respect skilled Baur users more than skilled Voss users, as it is much harder to get good with the Baur, but the best Baur player, versus the best Voss player? Well just look at their kills with their respective weapons, and you'll know the result. I just think the Baur is an unnecessarily difficult weapon to use, and that calling someone that uses a weapon that is easier to get kills with "a n00b," is just dumb (for lack of a better term), using a weapon that is easier to kill with it not n00by, its clever, why use a weapon that your going to lose with? And then complain about losing because you can't beat a n00b?

The Baur is fine for some people, but not for me.

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Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

Aerosecurity

You just summarized my entire post in one sentence

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Tarenth

Its interesting how if you look at the hard stats and the opinion of how the weapons operate you see some interesting differences.

Example:
Baur has a ROF of 600 rounds per minute and the Voss has a ROF of 900 rounds per minute. While the Voss is definately faster, its not fast enough to put 10 rounds to every 4 from the Baur on full auto.

Another interesting tidbit of information is the Baur has the lowest strafing deviation penalty of all the weapons. This makes it ideal for 'quake' style game play for people who weave side to side while shooting since you pretty much keep the same accuracy while in the side to side motion as you would standing still. This, in turn, gives players who utilize that ability an advantage in CQC over people who use the Voss or Lambert and have to plant their feet or suffer pretty hefty accuracy penalties for movement.

Lastly is the fact that the Baur is actually less accurate at long ranges with single shot than the Voss and has a larger 'per shot' penalty on single shot with scope which makes the Voss better for long range combat than the Baur. In fact, at any reasonably long range the Baur only does slightly more damage (3-5 points) than the Voss which is greatly offset by the lower ROF, higher accuracy reset, and lower cold barrel accuracy.


I think that's where people start seeing the Voss as overpowered. Its actual stats make it better at long range combat than the Baur and its larger clip make it ideal for spray and pray at close ranges. Whereas the stats of the Baur make it ideal for the run and gunner who closes in with someone then weaves side to side with evasive shooting at close range, yet people think and feel it should be a long ranged weapon.

Of course with enough skill you can make any weapon work at any range, but the stats on the guns do affect how you perform initially with it.

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SharinganTH1422

Well obviously the 10 is an exaggeration, more like 5 to 6, and if they are well placed, well then the Voss user comes out on top.

I think I love you.

Finally some sort of evidence that backs up my claim that, YOU CAN KILL WITH THE VOSS AT DISTANCE IF YOU KNOW HOW TO CONTROL IT. If you know how to keep your reticule on the target and fight the recoil, even the slightest bit of it, you can often take out targets from distance, I'm not sure if it works at super long distances, but certainly up to that area where there is an uncertainty if the enemy is mid or long range away, you can take out targets with the Voss.

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Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

Aerosecurity

No one ever denied the fact that you can kill people at distance with the Voss. To be honest, I have more long range kills with the Voss than with the Baur (no to mention it's easier). Even so, unless the long range target is engaging you, I rather just spot him and move on. There is no point in wasting ammo on trying to kill that 100m guy in 4-5 shots (when he is able to take cover and heal). For those shots, I'll just use rockets (if absolutely necessary), else, spot and leave be for one of your teammates to take the shot.

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SharinganTH1422

I am someone that, unless playing in a squad and being told to hold fire, or going silently behind enemy lines, will attack everything I see, which is why I usually have the most deaths, on all servers, not just TG, even if I'm first.

__________________
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

AN508

I've just come to the conclusion that the majority of my engagements are at a range at which the Voss fails miserably at hitting my opponents.

I suppose that means it's Baur time.

Tarenth

Which is oddly backwards because statistically speaking the Voss is more accurate at long range than the Baur. That's why if you 'practice with the Baur' you become better with the Voss since you learn to aim a less accurate weapon accurately before going to a more accurate weapon.

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It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

SharinganTH1422

Yep, Yep, Yep, , +rep.

__________________
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

Gator762FMJ

Yep. It's pretty weird that the Baur is less accurate long range - but that may have been done for balance.

Still my vote goes to the Baur med to long range. I usually carry PK rockets, but they also leave trails and a neon sign telling the whole enemy team where I'm at. The scoped accuracy difference isn't that much.

It's simple: at longer ranges the Baur kills in fewer shots. 1 on 1 and at equal skill levels that means the Baur user killed the Voss user. Since they are both assault, who kills who is what is important, because they can break out the med kit afterward.

Again, one isn't always better over the other - it also depends on the map you are on and your style of play.

westyfield

I don't have the Baur... waaahaaaaa :'( :'(

That said, I haven't played 2142 for ages and I'm just gonna go reinstall it.

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