Re: Experience Required...

**Mordona** · 10-22-2007, 04:05 PM

I'm ass backwards. I started out early and learned how to CO on Pubs. That gave me a general understanding of how the real hierarchy works. I rarely SLed and still do. I don't care for it that much. But I have done it with TG squads. The SL is the most demanding position on the field. No question in my mind. You prefect this role, you will have done something special. There are only a handfull of really good SLs here. In my mind, anyone can CO. it's learning the interface and getting info to squads. Thats about all you can do anyway.

**Lorax74** · 10-22-2007, 04:48 PM

From my perspective, learning the roles in the order mentioned in the earlier posts provides perspective. And a CO with no real field experience will most likely have unrealistic expectations from his squad leaders.

Also, in my opinion, the COs with little or no SL experience are typically the ones that send in a squad or two to take a flag and as the attackers and defenders meet, the CO drops an orbital on everyone.

**Grimmfist** · 10-22-2007, 06:09 PM

I agree that SLing is the most demanding role in BF2142. Having to keep track of squadmates in one ear, a commander in the other while trying to stay alive and manage the minimap is difficult on most boards. A good CO is one who understands the board being played and able to relay information quickly and concisely, something I am still learning!

**Ainselie** · 10-23-2007, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Razcsak

Ainselie: A New SL squad seems like a good idea for new squadleaders. I know I'd jump in that squad if I saw someone honestly trying to improve themselves as a leader. I'm not a great SL, but I've squadded under some of the best and know what I want out of a SL.

On Learn TG squads, it does bother me a bit that you'll occasionally see a Learn TG full of TG (sometimes IHS) members. I don't think they need any help learning how we play. :P

I just what to preface that the "NEW SL" is not my idea, I saw it on the forum earlier i am not sure if it was 2142 or BF2. But I too would definitely support a new rising SL, if he/she made a NEW SL squad. As for the LEARN TG, that is a somewhat of a problem, and I believe it is the squad leader's responsibility to ask some TGer's to join another squad if it is full of TGs, to give non-tgers an opportunity.

**Warmstar** · 10-23-2007, 09:08 PM

One other important thing to do is observe the commander while you are playing. Note what he or she does well, and what he or she does not do well. Emulate the good qualities that commanders possess, and think of how you would change what they are doing. Then, put it into practice and try out your strategies. If they work, then congratulations. If they do not, refine them and continue to observe. Also, never commit solely to commanding. You have to be on the field to know what players are experiencing and how play strategy is evolving to understand effective leadership.

**Greenspan** · 10-24-2007, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Vortex421

Eh, see, the work up is recommended because it gives you the multitasking and people skills necessary to be a good CO. As a SM your only real worry is on the battle in front of you. As a SL, you have to manage up to five other members of your squad. As a CO, you're managing up to five squads as well as handling your own commander assets. You're not micromanaging near as much as you may on a SL level, but your decisions change the ebb and flow of the battle. Your ability to communicate (both literally communicating by a mic and communicating by what you say and how you say it) can have a major impact as well. I think that's why the progression is recommended - to give you a chance to gain this experience.

Meh, I guess it depends on the person.

If you really don't have any exposure to the SM/SL/CO system from BF2 or BF2142, and don't think you have very good multitasking/people skills then it would be good to go SL before going CO. But, in general, I still think if you want to become a good Commander, then you should focus getting practice in the commander position.

I'm not saying you should go in as a brand new player and jump on commander, obviously you need SOME exposure to how the game works and how the SL/CO interaction works, but I would consider that a relatively small (but still important) part of being a good commander.

The power of the commander position is more than just giving squads orders, it's having an overall perspective of the battlefield, and being able to react to "big-picture" issues that the regular lonewolf/SM/SL cannot see. Good commanders know the maps, know what to expect from the enemy, and know how to best use his/her resources to counter the enemy threat.

**Fehmart** · 10-26-2007, 01:26 PM

Thought I'd look up the 2142 boards again, and this topic caught my attention.

I hate to sound like I'm jumping on the bandwagon, but I would also advocate the SM->SL->CO approach. For example, I remember that when I was a newb CO, I'd see the OS ready and just click on the biggest clump of red that I saw. After plenty of time on the ground as SL, wishing that the CO could cover a back flag dash with the OS area denial, I had a better understanding of the uses of the CO assets. Also, there are some things that you cannot see, metaphorically and literally, as a CO. For example, from the CO POV, the two-story west of Crossroads on Fall of Berlin is just a rooftop to the CO, but its corridors and east side are easily defended by PAC. Losing rounds have been won simply by ordering all squads to hunker down west and northwest of Crossroads, and then bleeding out the enemy through massive killing.

ainselie mentioned the "SL paradox" earlier in the thread, and it seems to be an issue unique to this server that actually has regulars (and their associated reputation) and a working command hierarchy. I started out as an unknown, joined the more popular squads when I could, and remembered what worked and what didn't when I started SLing myself. It takes a while to build a reputation on the server, but once you begin to distinguish yourself through combat and support actions, people remember. Then they never forget, because they sit and wait for you to make a squad! Of course, this makes it even harder for new SLs to start out, because a lot of talent is waiting to join a particular squad. I liked to join different squads myself, because I wanted to see new perspectives on SLing, and I didn't mind advising, either. So, experienced SLs, don't be afraid to help out the new guys. They want to learn how to deal with 1) combat 2) communicating orders to their men 3) communicating with the CO 4) reading the tactical map and reassigning orders, etc. There's no better teacher than experience, but you can glean some insight from Exploding Silver's SL videos. They should still be on YouTube, at least.

It's good to see the 2142 community at TG is still going strong. I might drop in once in a while for a break from TF2. And to reiterate: I believe that becoming a good SL is an important part of a CO's education. Also, being an squad member has its own perks, too; they don't have nearly as much necessity to stay alive, so they can take some awesome, game-turning risks.

**Damonte** · 10-26-2007, 03:15 PM

Nice to see you haven't forgotten your roots, Fehmart. Feel free to drop by from time to time, I think everyone could benefit from your experience and advice.

**rage4order** · 10-26-2007, 05:27 PM

And his yelling, dont forget his yelling! I always loved squadding with the Fehmart, hope to see you back in the mix again soon. Fehmart was actually my first TG IHS experience...we are connected.

**McBuff** · 12-04-2007, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Reaperassault

or you can do like me and just SL anys ways because no one else wants to and then throw your squad into a meat grider and watch the jucies flow from the back

Reading through the posts I cant get past this one..... hehe, nice, man xD.

That does work sometimes I suppose, a charge is usually the last thing people expect you to do. Like when your (if not.. just me heh) knifing, if you just run right past your enemy full speed ahead, they wont notice and take you as a teammate running from fire, and then you can turn around and knife em' =D. Reaperassault might have something here..... xD

Back to the stuff directly relating to the topic haha, I do like the idea of Squad Member --> Squad Leader --> Commander progression, though I find it hard to move from the Squad Member to Squad leader. I'll do it if there's no open squads or if the team could use an extra one to assault this flag or that, but I personally am to afraid of letting 5 people down and losing a couple of flags. I get so sucked up in the moment sometimes I forget to respond to people asking me questions on VOIP and get everyone killed haha.

**Augustus Gloop** · 12-04-2007, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by McBuff

I personally am to afraid of letting 5 people down and losing a couple of flags. I get so sucked up in the moment sometimes I forget to respond to people asking me questions on VOIP and get everyone killed haha.

I think we all know what this feels like. One thing you might try is squad-leading 5 people who all know how you feel and are willing to be patient. Try starting a squad called NoobSL. The people who join are by definition going to expect you to need advice and are going to cut you slack. Or you could join one of the IHS teamspeak channels and ask some IHS members to join your squad and help you learn. Actually, that's part of why the In House Squads exist, as teachers for less experienced TG members.

**Thesleeper01** · 12-05-2007, 09:30 AM

building on what Gloop said you could join a IHS channel and ask to play in an IHS group, theres a lot more you can learn from seeing someone lead than leading yourself.

Walking up to cap is one way to do it but not nessaliary the best, being a good SL means haveing good ways to get around the problems to your objectives. You may think of those other ways yourself but its usualy a lot easyer to have someone do a task so you can learn it.

**SharinganTH1422** · 12-06-2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax74

I would suggest that you learn in the order that you stated:

Squad Member
Squad Leader
Commander

I believe this will give you an appreciation for each role while setting a solid foundation to build upon. When you feel you are ready to move from one role to the next, don't be afraid to tell people you are new to the role (SL or CO, even SM). The majority of TG people will go out of their way to help you learn as you go.

That's how I do it, I've only done a little COing and SLing, because, I thought you should be solid in your understanding of all the game mechanics before you tackle a big job. As they say, don't try and run before you can crawl.

Originally Posted by McBuff

Back to the stuff directly relating to the topic haha, I do like the idea of Squad Member --> Squad Leader --> Commander progression, though I find it hard to move from the Squad Member to Squad leader. I'll do it if there's no open squads or if the team could use an extra one to assault this flag or that, but I personally am to afraid of letting 5 people down and losing a couple of flags. I get so sucked up in the moment sometimes I forget to respond to people asking me questions on VOIP and get everyone killed haha.

I completely understand this fear dude, which is why it's taken me so long to step up to some SLing and COing roles, it's the same reason why I don't take walkers, fear of letting your team down with the best piece of armour in the game. Once I was playing in Lyra's squad, I got into a walker, and got into the second seat as he approached, he was surprised to be getting into the first seat and said in his awesome German accent "Oh...so you don't wanna drive?" I mean, I think it's obvious whose better with a walker out of me and Lyra, and I made that point, but he just said (once again in his cool German accent), "Who cares? It's more fun in the front seat and that's what it's all about, and the more you do it, the better you'll be." Wise words from an experienced player. (but then he got 30 kills and I got 2 in the back seat...which made my point pretty well) But anywho, you can't get better at something if you never do it.

**Crux** · 12-06-2007, 04:58 PM

My goal as SL is to wear holes in the soles of their shoes.

**Damonte** · 12-06-2007, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Crux

My goal as SL is to wear holes in the soles of their shoes.

When Damonte first joined TG, Xperment burned out two complete sets of his favorite footwear.

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