nuckj

It's the age old adage. The job requires experience. So how do you get the experience if you cannot perform the job without it. This brings me to my question.

How do you become a good Commander without handing your entire army over to the enemy countless times? People usually want someone leading that already knows what they are doing.

Should it be a progression based learning? Like SM first, then SL, then Commander? I'm sure it should, but Commander seems much more involved than SL.

I'm sure there are some really great Commanders among the ranks of TG. So how did you get to where you are?


Nuck J

Lorax74

I would suggest that you learn in the order that you stated:

1. Squad Member
2. Squad Leader
3. Commander

I believe this will give you an appreciation for each role while setting a solid foundation to build upon. When you feel you are ready to move from one role to the next, don't be afraid to tell people you are new to the role (SL or CO, even SM). The majority of TG people will go out of their way to help you learn as you go.

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TG-9th Lorax74

Zhohar

It really is as Lorax puts it -- you cannot take a role and perfect it unless you have thorough experience with the role below it.

There are things you learn by fire but I am sincere when I say this oughtn't be one of them. As a CO, you immediately impact 8-32 people around you and that is a lot of people to piss off. More importantly, a lot of mistakes that bad COs make stem directly from the fact that they have simply not been squad members nor squad leaders long enough to understand what the people on their team need.

Take your time and learn each role properly before moving up. Bad commanders are, all things equal, also bad squad leaders. Bad squad leaders are also bad squad members. Note that well.

Take your time and observe your immediate superior. With time, your step up or self-promotion will feel like a natural consequence of skill. By the time you begin Commanding, you will have "been there" and "done that" to know what your SLs need, where to put them, and how to help them. You'll know the moves the enemy executes, you'll know their strategies, you'll know how to win and how to lose: all that remains is to learn from the team playing against you.

Take your time. As the broadest rule of thumb, do not command until you are a Brigadier General. Do not command unless you have a microphone. Do not take an ego trip and expect people to do things because "I said so and I'm the CO." Do not command maps you "don't know" -- that's simply unacceptable.

That's a lot of don'ts
Do command if you feel you're a good SM and a good SL. Do command if you can lead people in real life. Do command if there is a need for it: if no one is there, stand out. Even if you fail, a commander is better than no commander.

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Lorax74

I don't agree about Brigadier General, there have been many commanders that I've had the pleasure to SL under that were not generals.

As Zhohar stated, any CO is better than no CO, so if you are feeling brave and your team has no commander apply for the position. Win or loose, you'll probably have learned something.

One thing that I can not stress enough: If your team has control of the bleed, setup a defense around the control points you have and keep control of the bleed. Do NOT get greedy or over ambitious and send all of your squads after that one last CP. This is the one thing that drives me absolutely insane. OK, I have one more: don't drop orbital strikes on a flag with a friendly squad on or near it - just ask Moxmax how much I like it (that drives me bonkers, even worse than seeing every squad run at one flag).

This is all assuming you do indeed give CO a shot. There is a whole thread dedicated to this and squad leading, search around for them. If you have trouble locating the threads just ask and someone will point you to them.

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TG-9th Lorax74

Augustus Gloop

Also, communicate with your squad leaders. Like Lorax suggested, tell them you're inexperienced but that you are going to give them your full attention. Ask for feedback from your squad leaders, and the more experienced will offer you suggestions.

If I can add some do's and don'ts:
Don't command if you don't have a mic.
Don't be arrogant about your power, but don't put up with squads ignoring your command. If they feel you are wrong, they should say so and give you suggestions, but the final decision is yours and you shouldn't have to put up with disobedience.
Don't get too wrapped up in any particular squad or point, your job is to have the wider view, and the bigger strategy.

Do talk to your squad leaders, but keep in mind their pressing need to stay alive and talk to their troops.
Do spot out troops your UAV doesn't catch, but try not to spam too much.
Hold your orbital for strategic purposes, like screening a squad's advance, or breaking a walker that is slaughtering your people. Tell people in advance that you're using it so they can include it in their plans.

Also, bug experienced commanders with your questions.

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Reaperassault

or you can do like me and just SL anys ways because no one else wants to and then throw your squad into a meat grider and watch the jucies flow from the back

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nuckj

Wow. You guys really have great perspectives. It is the maturity and professionalism that you posess that sets TG apart. It is what separates the pub kids from the adult gaming enthusiasts that make up the ranks of this community.

I will probably remain a SM for some time before even attempting to truly lead a squad. And as for now, I will just admire the good COs from a close learning distance.

Thanks for all you input.

Nuck J

Greenspan

If you need some experience before Commanding in the TG server, maybe just goto some pubs and get some practice there? Many times there a servers w/o a commander at all and I don't think they'd mind if you took the reigns. It sounds like your building up this whole commander thing, remember, the commander doesn't win/lose the game, it's up to the entire team to do that. It's pretty hard for a commander to hurt a team, unless your Orbital Striking your own team or something crazy dumb, your going to be helping your team no matter what. The difference between a really bad commander and a really good commander, is simply how much they help the team. So I wouldn't be so self conscious about trying out the commander role.

I'd disagree with the SM/SL/CO work up, unless your brand spanking new to BF2/2142. Squad Leader and Commander are different enough that it won't help you that much, if your trying to figure out how to be a commander I'd focus on playing as commander.

Vortex421

Eh, see, the work up is recommended because it gives you the multitasking and people skills necessary to be a good CO. As a SM your only real worry is on the battle in front of you. As a SL, you have to manage up to five other members of your squad. As a CO, you're managing up to five squads as well as handling your own commander assets. You're not micromanaging near as much as you may on a SL level, but your decisions change the ebb and flow of the battle. Your ability to communicate (both literally communicating by a mic and communicating by what you say and how you say it) can have a major impact as well. I think that's why the progression is recommended - to give you a chance to gain this experience.

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"Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!"
"Rule 35: That which does not kill you has made a tactical error."
"Rule 36: When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
"Rule 39: There is no such thing as "overkill". There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".
(Rules compliments of the infamous Schlock Mercenary webcomic.)

Bagheera

The most important thing for a commander to do is intel. If a commander is running and gunning all the time, then he's not doing his primary job, intel. Squads need intel even more than they need orders from the commander. There have been times when I know some of my squads are making the right decisions on their own, and I'll rarely issue orders unless I see something they don't. Other times, squads need to be told exactly what to do. It's all about knowing your SL's and how well they handle tactics.

Augustus Gloop

Just to stress the point, on our server commanders are not allowed to fight unless it is absolutely necessary (to prevent assets from being blown up, or if the team does not have any points and the commander is the only one who can prevent a cap or gain a point). Fighting commanders are routinely reported by players upset at the lack of commander support, and then kicked by admins.

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Ainselie

I agree with most of things said above. Ironically though my experience has been different.

When I first started on the server, there were many well known high profile squad leaders that were very successful. I tried to regularly join these squads (there was quite a rush to get a spot). It was quite a learning experience serving these squad leaders. However, because of most players flocked to an experienced squad leader, it was a difficult to transition from being a squad member to a squad leader because the teamwork oriented players would not join your squad unless if they had no other options. This was an unfortunate reality, and I am not sure if it still happens on our server regularly today. These were the times I had wished the "NEW SL" squads exists (which was a spin off of "LEARN TG" squads that was discussed in the forums.)

IMO, when you are starting off learning the SL, it really helps to have TG minded players, because players who are not familiar with the TG-way are hard to "manage." It takes a good and experienced SL to turn these players around with the TG mindset. But if you do not have the experience squad leading, and you get players who are not familiar with TG, it can be very frustrating since people do not follow orders. Today, I am very comfortable sharing the TG way with new people on the server, since it is a more challenging role and considerably more fun.

So my experience was, that to learn to be a good SL you had to be a good SL. It was quite a paradox. This is where I choose to fill commander roles instead. Since many games were lacking competent commanders, if you made a decent effort at commanding, you were way ahead of the game. As people start recognize your name when you are commanding, they start to 'open up' to you when you create a squad, and some people give you a try out when you are the squad leader.

After squad leading for a long time, I have returned to commanding, and this is where my current interest is. But even playing for a long time, you never master a role, and there is always things you can learn from your peers; and not everyone can have a leadership role as SL or CO - as there are only so many spots, so I play the role where demand is needed.

I am not sure if this helps, but I hope it does

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Damonte

Above every great Squad Leader is a good Commander. Above every great Squad Member is a good Squad Leader.

And conversely... a Commander cannot be great without excellent Squad Leaders working with him (or her).

All three roles contribute to one another. One cannot truly excel at any of them without knowing the other two roles.

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Razcsak

Ainselie: A New SL squad seems like a good idea for new squadleaders. I know I'd jump in that squad if I saw someone honestly trying to improve themselves as a leader. I'm not a great SL, but I've squadded under some of the best and know what I want out of a SL.

On Learn TG squads, it does bother me a bit that you'll occasionally see a Learn TG full of TG (sometimes IHS) members. I don't think they need any help learning how we play. :P

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Damonte

Damonte thinks perhaps it is time for some "Learn3rd" squads.

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