Re: Avoid Getting Knifed?

**WhiskeySix** · 10-23-2007, 01:39 PM

The thing that keeps you from getting knifed is the same thing that keeps you from getting shot: situational awareness. It's all about knowing where the enemy is and isn't. Here's a post I made in the PoE2 forum... it's about staying alive on a map that's basically a foggy, dense forest, with limited visibility. Same general principles apply here too...

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

If you're looking at grass you're staying a little too low

Seriously though, it's all about knowing which area's are safe and which area's are hot. For example - if you're back is against the out-of-bounds line, you only have to worry about being shot from 180 degree's in front of you. If you then kneel with a big tree on your left, you cut your exposure to 90 degrees front/right. If you then realize that flag to your right is held by a friendly squad, you reduce your exposure even more - you can now expect to not be shot by someone you don't see... or... at least they'll shoot you from within your field of view. At this point, you can concentrate on being more observant of the horizon/bushes.

Just by positioning yourself so you won't be shot in the back/sides, you'll improve your K/D a LOT. You may not have quite as many kills as first since you're not charging in to a firefight - but you'll also die a lot less. The more you play with that "limit my exposure" mindset, the better you get at it and can keep yourself safe even while moving around quite a bit.

"Situational Awareness" FTW.

**SharinganTH1422** · 10-23-2007, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

The thing that keeps you from getting knifed is the same thing that keeps you from getting shot: situational awareness. It's all about knowing where the enemy is and isn't. Here's a post I made in the PoE2 forum... it's about staying alive on a map that's basically a foggy, dense forest, with limited visibility. Same general principles apply here too...The thing that keeps you from getting knifed is the same thing that keeps you from getting shot: situational awareness. It's all about knowing where the enemy is and isn't. Here's a post I made in the PoE2 forum... it's about staying alive on a map that's basically a foggy, dense forest, with limited visibility. Same general principles apply here too...

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

If you're looking at grass you're staying a little too low

Seriously though, it's all about knowing which area's are safe and which area's are hot. For example - if you're back is against the out-of-bounds line, you only have to worry about being shot from 180 degree's in front of you. If you then kneel with a big tree on your left, you cut your exposure to 90 degrees front/right. If you then realize that flag to your right is held by a friendly squad, you reduce your exposure even more - you can now expect to not be shot by someone you don't see... or... at least they'll shoot you from within your field of view. At this point, you can concentrate on being more observant of the horizon/bushes.

Just by positioning yourself so you won't be shot in the back/sides, you'll improve your K/D a LOT. You may not have quite as many kills as first since you're not charging in to a firefight - but you'll also die a lot less. The more you play with that "limit my exposure" mindset, the better you get at it and can keep yourself safe even while moving around quite a bit.

"Situational Awareness" FTW.

Absolutely right.

Something I was trying to articulate in my post, but failed miserably

.

+rep

**Warmstar** · 10-23-2007, 07:56 PM

Never, ever go prone behind a low wall, and corners are well protected. If you stay in a hallway for an extended period of time, do not stay near the door. Be a ways away from any entrance points and narrow down the number of exposed routes with your position. If you are with your squad, make sure that someone is always covering the six.

**Bagheera** · 10-23-2007, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422

That was obviously a terrible knifer, I've only been RDXed a few times, when I was an inexperienced knifer, and hadn't faced it much before. Because I use RDX so much now, I know exactly what to do and when, when someone lays down RDX. Since I'm not knife crazy, at this point I would have taken my gun out and given you a lead feast, by which time you couldn't take out your gun, and would've simply exploded the RDX to try and do something, but alas, nothing. But if I was close enough, I'd pursue with sprint, and either get you before you detonated (I don't back down when a knifer draws) or taken you with me in the RDX blast. Or if you just clipped me, I would still just get you. The most likely of these is that you would clip me, as you would want to make sure you were out of range, and therefore I would be out of range, and as you detonated, it would be the opening to cut you down, or if I wasn't confident I could get you with the knife, I'd line you with lead quickly.

I don't know if I'll get accused of statpadding here, but I used to go on the occasional knife server. But only ones without admins. Why? I here you ask...Because I could practice against both knifers, and RDXers/gunners, with my knife. I would learn how to deal with different situations, and even though I was terrible when it came to 1-on-1s with really great knifers, and I think I lost about 300 dog tags playing on these servers, and got about 100, I knew that, that skill would not be as useful, as knowing what to do against normal players. Now when I knife in real games, I'm much better. I remember taking at least 2 in the last TG scrim, and I've been using it less as well.

Aw man...something just occurred to me. That's basically a challenge isn't it. To get your tag. And I can never say no to a knife fight, it's a terrible trait. I always add people as buddies that get my tags, and if they accept my buddy invite, i go after their tags whenever they're on, whatever server they are playing on, I don't rest until I have their tag, and then I delete them after I have their tag. So dude, what times you play 2142? And what is your time zone? Even though I'm not going to be playing 2142 for like AGES, and you probably play a really late time in my timezone, I really want your tag now...

Edit: Yes, I remember seeing those videos, I was looking for any bf frag vids, and I thought it looked interesting. The BANG and then MAN DOWN! MAN DOWN! was just priceless, I was really waiting for some sort of amazing manoeuvre. What was so great is that neither the description, the title, or the presentation gave anything away.

NB: I would never do this. Running with just a knife face on to someone with a shotgun is just...just read that sentence again.

Running with just a knife face on to someone with a shotgun

I mean, do I really need to say anything about how stupid that is...?

Sometimes I get knifed, and sometimes I don't. One thing I don't ever do is make it easy for the knifer. This is pretty much what this whole thread is about.

APM's really don't do squat to discourage knifers, but RDX does. If you're quick enough (sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not), you can jump up, run and blow your RDX that you've conveniently place next to you (sometimes under your own body) if you're camping a spot.

One of my favorite spots, for example in Berlin when I'm sniping from a 2nd floor balcony is to place RDX where I know that people can run up the snow to the 2nd floor. Go ahead and make it obvious, it doesn't matter most of the time. I've taken out an entire half of a squad running up that snow to the 2nd floor that's been after me. The trick is to make the RDX obvious, then hide the APMs in blind corners and just below spots that people will jump to you (such as on the OTHER side of the rail of those balconies, where it can't be seen.) Using this technique, I'll take out 2-3 guys that do the initial run up with the RDX, 1 or 2 more that trip the APM, and after blowing the RDX the first time (before they even hit the first APM) I'll drop RDX on my current location, run around the corner, and nail the rest of the squad with the RDX as they rush my prior location. I've received many a delicious explosive efficiency badge this way, even when NOT playing titan. Don't be afraid to spread out your RDX 2-3 pieces at a time, but make sure it's spread out so that it captures a nice big blast area. 1 RDX by itself may take out 1-2 guys, but you're certainly not going to nail a whole squad this way. This will give anybody out for your dog tags second thoughts about trying to knife you.

The downside to this is that you don't have your RDX handy to take out pesky armor, which is what I use it for most of the time.

**Gator762FMJ** · 10-23-2007, 08:42 PM

A +1 to WhiskeySix's post, situational awareness.

It's probably obvious, but if you snipe a lot, you're gonna get knifed more. Constantly get your eye out of your scope and look around. If all you do is sit there looking through the scope, you're gonna get knifed.

A quality sound card with sound setting at ultra high helps too.

The first video is awesome - point blank shottie to the face is the most satisfying for the chump knifer. Who cares about knifing, there is rarely ever a tactical advantage to it. In fact, most times it's tactically worse - the guy you killed will respawn in 15 seconds, and he obviously knows where you were last. If you kill with your rifle, and you are not too close, he may only have an idea as to which direction. A quick burst to the back of the head and you won't even waste enough bullets to need a reload.

**Acreo Aeneas** · 10-24-2007, 01:22 AM

Use headphones when you can and keep your pistol loaded (it saves me 80% of the time).

**Bagheera** · 10-24-2007, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by Gator762FMJ

A +1 to WhiskeySix's post, situational awareness.

It's probably obvious, but if you snipe a lot, you're gonna get knifed more. Constantly get your eye out of your scope and look around. If all you do is sit there looking through the scope, you're gonna get knifed.

A quality sound card with sound setting at ultra high helps too.

The first video is awesome - point blank shottie to the face is the most satisfying for the chump knifer. Who cares about knifing, there is rarely ever a tactical advantage to it. In fact, most times it's tactically worse - the guy you killed will respawn in 15 seconds, and he obviously knows where you were last. If you kill with your rifle, and you are not too close, he may only have an idea as to which direction. A quick burst to the back of the head and you won't even waste enough bullets to need a reload.

Damn straight. The only time I ever see the tactical value of knifing is when I've just climbed up to a roof/tower only to come upon 3 guys who are unaware of me (who I was previously unaware of.) If they don't see me and are busy trying to rain hell on my squad below, it's better to knife them all, because a knife doesn't go bang! and doesn't give me away to the other two guys after I've already killed the first.

If a guy isn't watching his six, and suddenly hears his squadmate scream "Medic!" but doesn't hear any nearby gunfire (like immediately behind him), he's going to assume it was a sniper or assault guy that wasted his buddy from range, and isn't going to assume that there is someone RIGHT BEHIND HIM!!!

Medic!!!!

**SharinganTH1422** · 10-24-2007, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Gator762FMJ

A +1 to WhiskeySix's post, situational awareness.

It's probably obvious, but if you snipe a lot, you're gonna get knifed more. Constantly get your eye out of your scope and look around. If all you do is sit there looking through the scope, you're gonna get knifed.

A quality sound card with sound setting at ultra high helps too.

The first video is awesome - point blank shottie to the face is the most satisfying for the chump knifer. Who cares about knifing, there is rarely ever a tactical advantage to it. In fact, most times it's tactically worse - the guy you killed will respawn in 15 seconds, and he obviously knows where you were last. If you kill with your rifle, and you are not too close, he may only have an idea as to which direction. A quick burst to the back of the head and you won't even waste enough bullets to need a reload.

On that point, as a knifer, you can move away from that spot. This is not a downside, as if you were to shoot someone head -on from close range, and kill them, the enemy would know where you are when they spawn, it doesn't make you run away, and try and get him from distance.

Originally Posted by Acreo Aeneas

Use headphones when you can and keep your pistol loaded (it saves me 80% of the time).

I'm unbelievably useless with the pistol. Once I got such an amazing first-time headshot when I had like 20 HP, I flt like such a pro

, that was my second highest score round ever, I was on fire.

Originally Posted by Bagheera

Damn straight. The only time I ever see the tactical value of knifing is when I've just climbed up to a roof/tower only to come upon 3 guys who are unaware of me (who I was previously unaware of.) If they don't see me and are busy trying to rain hell on my squad below, it's better to knife them all, because a knife doesn't go bang! and doesn't give me away to the other two guys after I've already killed the first.

If a guy isn't watching his six, and suddenly hears his squadmate scream "Medic!" but doesn't hear any nearby gunfire (like immediately behind him), he's going to assume it was a sniper or assault guy that wasted his buddy from range, and isn't going to assume that there is someone RIGHT BEHIND HIM!!!

Medic!!!!

As demonstrated in the screenshots I took, however, the others do hear your knife, but it's so much quicker, easier, and more humiliating doing it this way

. But the people that won't hear or see you, are the people slightly further away, not in the immediate vicinity, but close enough to hear rapid fire and the sound of their snipers dying. Actually, knifing has many tactical advantages, it's a one-hit kill weapon in close range, that's virtually silent, and humiliating for the opponent. (OK, humiliating isn't tactical, but it is fun)

**Gator762FMJ** · 10-24-2007, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422

As demonstrated in the screenshots I took, however, the others do hear your knife, but it's so much quicker, easier, and more humiliating doing it this way

. But the people that won't hear or see you, are the people slightly further away, not in the immediate vicinity, but close enough to hear rapid fire and the sound of their snipers dying. Actually, knifing has many tactical advantages, it's a one-hit kill weapon in close range, that's virtually silent, and humiliating for the opponent. (OK, humiliating isn't tactical, but it is fun)

I guess I never got/understood the humiliating part. It's just another weapon in the game, and you do have to be very close but it is also a 1-hit kill weapon. For me, it's more fun to blast someone in the face with a Clark, or watch a body fly 20 feet into the air with a perfectly placed tank round... OOOH, that had to hurt!

The good thing with knifers is that I do enjoy killing them more. That's probably from those FF off servers. At TG, I associate the the bunny hopping jackass with a knife out to the bunny hopping RDX jackasses from the FF off servers.

**Anospa** · 10-24-2007, 12:19 PM

Well, after a foray into a knife only server to spread the Krylov lovin' after a long day, I reached a new record: 7 kills in 15 seconds on a server before a kick.

I'd say "pound for pound," the knife is definitely one of my better weapons.

**SharinganTH1422** · 10-24-2007, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Gator762FMJ

I guess I never got/understood the humiliating part. It's just another weapon in the game, and you do have to be very close but it is also a 1-hit kill weapon. For me, it's more fun to blast someone in the face with a Clark, or watch a body fly 20 feet into the air with a perfectly placed tank round... OOOH, that had to hurt!

Well I dno, there's something about a knife kill, getting so close, yet your opponent doesn't know you're there, or knifing someone who has a gun in their hands, but whatever satisfies you, just do it.

Originally Posted by Anospa

Well, after a foray into a knife only server to spread the Krylov lovin' after a long day, I reached a new record: 7 kills in 15 seconds on a server before a kick.

lol, chuck all 5 RDXes down. when they all swarm around the area, just blow it, and follow that up with some Lambert kills

. I think I got about 13 before getting kicked, it's funny how everyone just forgets about everything just to come after you, lollll, i love being the centre of attention, but as I said before, I like knife servers, just not the serious ones, where I can practice knifing against all dif. types of opponents, including bunnyhopping RDXers.

Originally Posted by Anospa

I'd say "pound for pound," the knife is definitely one of my better weapons.

Likewise.

**Tarenth** · 10-24-2007, 02:55 PM

Skipping the clark vs knife debate and the "I R Knifer" chest beating, there is another way to avoid knifing that is also part of situational awareness. Especially true on TG servers is the fact of formation awareness.

If you are following your SL from point A to point B odds are you're going to fall in one of two formations:

Tight Line - Where someone is point and the 2nd person follows them, 3rd to the 2nd, 4th to 3rd, 5th to 4th, and 6th to 5th. Basically if you were to take a eye in the sky view it would look like you were following a path set by the SL in a line. This is especially true in attempts to sneak past the front line to a rear sector or when moving down cramped quarters like behind buildings or through hallways. When in this formation its probably best if the 2nd person stand ground and watch the rear while waiting for the 6th person to pass. Then the 2nd takes the 6th's place at the end of the line while the 3rd stops and watches the rear. Its a rough format of leap frog, but its mainly so you aren't taken from the rear by a pursuit force and cut from behind. That's assuming the SL is at point leading the way into a rear sector the CO reports clear. Sometimes the information is murky and someone else takes point to catch bullets while the SL takes the center, then you just switch up who has vanguard because leaving your SL in the rear is a bad idea.
Scatter Formation - You don't exactly follow someone, but tend to move in a group toward an objective because you're headed in a general direction and everyone knows where to go. Again, if seen from above it would look like a loose cluster and this is what people usually fall into when they are holding a location from multiple routes of attack or cover open ground with sparse cover. In this situation there really is no real reason for everyone to face the same direction. You should pick a point depending on where you are located in relation to everyone else and spot dangers before they start raining lead and explosive death on your squad. If that means walking backwards or glancing back frequently while you have the rear position then that's what you do because its at least more productive than staring at the back of the point's helmet.

When working as a squad recognize that everyone needs to watch something so nothing is missed and figure out quickly who is watching what so you leave no gaps. When working alone then you start to worry about RDX jumping or defense again knifers because you have no squad to watch your six. On a TG server with a TG squad any knifer will be met with a hail of bullets to the face and you'll be defibbed so a defense against one is a nonissue.

**Gator762FMJ** · 10-24-2007, 08:00 PM

Great point Tarenth. Best defense is to work with a squad, so you have someone to watch your six.

I assumed the OP was sniping a lot, because like you said, knifers are not really a problem for someone working with a squad.

**Zoopy** · 10-25-2007, 09:34 AM

All you have to do is sprint away. No one can run faster than you if they are running at you with a knife. So just sprint in the opposite direction until one of the following happens:

You get killed by something else
The knifer gets killed by something else
The knifer gets bored and shoots you in the back

Usually number 3 happens. But you should be with your squad and will most likely be revived. If you are lying prone anywhere, then you deserve to be stabbed.