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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - Tactics and Missions Discussion - Squad balance - Don't even get Damonte started on how many times he needs to remove snipers from
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12-10-2007, 01:40 PM #16
Re: Squad balance
Don't even get Damonte started on how many times he needs to remove snipers from the monorail on Belgrade.
Difib + PK Rockets > Sniper Rifle
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12-10-2007, 02:06 PM #17
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Re: Squad balance
Originally Posted by Eroak
A while ago I saw a video by Silver.7 set on Camp Gib that made a strong argument for the SL to be recon. Advanced stealth makes for a LONG stealth time. Plenty of time for multiple squad respawns, and with all the confusion on a contested flag, the SL can hunker down almost right in the middle of the action and go completely unnoticed unless the enemy trips over him. All he has to do is call for a hold spawn, and wait for timers to tick down. Then squad bomb. The video I saw was of his squad having some trouble clearing the flag, but because Silver doesn't move, his guys are able to spawn on him several times and finally take the point- seemingly spawning out of nowhere. The netbat enhancements were almost as good as an ids, and the lambert is perfect for a quick takedown of the last soldier from behind. Maybe the ghost SL has a place after all.
Watch the tactic from about 1:25 on.
Also, watch silver bait a knifer at about 2:55!
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12-10-2007, 03:30 PM #18
Re: Squad balance
There are 2 Styles of playing Sniper. One if efficient on TG the other isn´t.
Classic Sniper
- elevated point
- camps
- goes for headshots
- Weapon use: Sniper Rifle 90% APMs to secure himself 10%
Squad Sniper
- On the ground
- Moves around his Squad
- goes for save body shots instead of risky headshots
- Weapon use: 40% Sniper Rifle 10% Pistol 20% APM to secure his SL 30% RDX traps
The classic sniper is the usual rocket bait we all love. Sitting somewhere and just asking to be killed while wasting a spot on the server.
The squad sniper is how I like to play it when I want to use a sniper rifle. You have the ability to quickly wound targets with a body shot over very long range. Wounded guys will usually jump for cover and try to heal up - just the time your fellow Squad mates need to adjust their rocket range to clear out. Plant APMs around your SLs position to help your Squad stay alive. Plant RDX traps on well known points like on stairs to take the steam out of an enemy push. If your Squads Support guy has EMP grenades even Armor can be taken care off easily. And whatever happens - don´t be too proud of your sniper work to pick up other kits when needed to revive fallen team members!
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12-10-2007, 03:34 PM #19
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Re: Squad balance
Originally Posted by Eroak
I am going to offer a counterpoint and say that Squad Leaders should use the Assault kit as often as possible. In fact, I’ll take it to the other extreme and say that any Squad Leader laying on the ground without a defibrillator in their rucksack isn’t worth the bullet that killed them. They are leaders, not support personnel, and the best way to do so is from the front. Saddle up, make sure your squad is attached to your hip, and hit your objective like a steamroller.
You need to use a little common sense and not get yourself caught with your pants down, but there is no reason to sit back cowering in the corner watching the NetBat and map. Let someone much more expendable lunk ammo, provide covering fire, or work to flank armor. You need to be with your troops in the thick of it, where you can get a much better sense of what is really happening and can make quick and decisive decisions based on first-hand knowledge.
It certainly takes some time to develop the necessary skills to effectively lead from the front, but nobody said being a good leader was going to be a walk in the park. You need to have superb situational awareness, must be able to multi-task, and cannot feel timid about delegating authority. This doesn’t mean you need to always be the first one charging the line, but you better be close enough to hear your enemy scream. Commanders command squads from afar and Squad Leaders lead soldiers from the front.
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12-10-2007, 03:46 PM #20
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Re: Squad balance
That's impressive, that is. Originally Posted by Augustus Gloop
Pfeil: With the new Clark, there's no reason the SL can't be support and still take point. I think there's something to be said for getting every defib available to the squad members, rather than the leader. It takes a good second to switch kits, so if the SL goes down and the support SM is the only one up, that's less time to revive and more time that the SM has to be in danger while reviving. If the SL was the support, the SM can revive at a run, rather than having to stop or make two passes.
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12-10-2007, 04:24 PM #21
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Re: Squad balance
I have to say that lately, I have tended to lead from the front and quite often hear "Fubar, wait...let us go in first". At which I do. Although I agree with leading fromt he front, but only to a point. You are a spawn point and must stay alive, I do like to get out there and help take the enemy down. Not to mention being aware of the situation and making better decisions based on my personal knowledge of the ensuing battle.
With a mostly TG squad, I tend to rely on data from them......it is most efficient and I tend to "try" to stay back and give direction.
I have been trying to utilize the Support as an SL, and it has become quite effective. You don't put yourself at great risk resupplying.......but you do trying to revive.
The squad load-outs are important depending on the map andf what you want to accomplish. The ones described above are great and can always be tweaked a little depending on the situation.
An exampple would be:
Taking Statue at Belgrade - intitial load out - 2 Engy's, 2 Support, and 2 Assualt
Defending Statue in the begining - 3 Engy's, 2 Support, and 1 Assualt
Once the Armor is tired of getting beat, the infantry come in, change load-outs to 1 Engy, 2 Support, 3 Assault.
It seems to work fairly well and the changes are on the fly as the situation dictates.
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12-10-2007, 04:45 PM #22
Re: Squad balance
That's a good point, Fubar. You can also pick up a downed medic's kit if you need to revive--assuming your squad mates are hanging as close to you as they should be. Originally Posted by MDFubar
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12-10-2007, 04:53 PM #23
Re: Squad balance
Recon is a class I hear quite a few people mentioning with snorts of derision. Honestly, it's not a class I often ask for or worry with, much less play. But I'm beginning to think it has a bit more worth in certain circumstances than people give it credit for. For example, well-placed RDX around a flag can clear out most of the people capturing the point in one go. And I don't know how many times I've tried a catwalk run on Camp Gibby only to be thwarted by an APM I didn't see. I'm going to have to ruminate on this one for a while, and I hope to come up with some good ways to utilize recons in a squad. For that matter, I hope this generates some though-inspiring discussion on the topic. Originally Posted by Lyramion
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12-10-2007, 10:45 PM #24
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Re: Squad balance
Actaully Razscak, its more like three to five seconds for a kit to switch to defib ready assualt. Remember it takes a good second or two just for the kit to drop (or an eternity if you're is an Engineer) and then you have to get the defib out. So I would have to say its best to leave the SL without the defibs to have as many out there as possible when the SL goes down, but the SL better make sure to get out of there when up and reevaluate the situation or the revive would be for naught.
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12-10-2007, 11:29 PM #25
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Re: Squad balance
The SL doesn't have to be lazy either, your right but they don't have to spearhead any assault and be the first to get killed. They should mingle more in the middle of the squad in normal assault mode. That why the front line lays down cover while the rear medics have time to rez the SL if he dies. Originally Posted by Pfeil2281
Every style is different and some SL's lead better at the front. This also isn't a SOP so this is all suggestion for those who think I saying otherwise You play the way your comfortable with so long as it helps the team.
The soldier formerly known as, Eroak.
From the TG Primer: 2) Create an environment where there is
mutual respect for your fellow gamers and where all members
would be working together to advance the enjoyment of their hobby.
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12-11-2007, 04:42 AM #26
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Re: Squad balance
I have a few cents to raise about Recon in a squad.
First, moving in a squad can be very handy with Netbat. Recons get an upgrade that allows them to track enemies for longer, and that info transfers to the Netbat system. Also, because the enemy can be tracked longer, it gives the rest of the squad more time to get in a position to clear them out.
Second, RDx can be used as choke point control, placing a large spread of it on the ground at the choke point then, let the enemy rush in, boom. Rinse and repeat with your support. This can also be used against areas where vehicles can rush flags. Place the RDx in an area where the vehicle usually stops or pauses to scan the area.
Third, with active camo, vanilla or extended, a SL/Recon can get his squad deeper into enemy territory and force the enemy to divert resources to deal with the breach.
Finally, I agree with Lyramion, a Recon needs to be with his squad. I'm always moving with my squad when on the offensive. But on the defensive, I tend to set up a nest and spread the squad out to maximize fields of fire. If I have medic and a support available I setup a recovery area near my position. Otherwise, I call in for a supply drop.
I've never understood the aversion to Recon on TG, they are part of the game and can be very useful tactically. I understand that it's the lone wolves that have ruined it. But, there are very good Recon players that seem to get shunned from squads just because they use the kit. I think it's up to the SL to find a use for them. Having 5 assaults and 1 support, doesn't save tickets, if the assaults all die trying to revive the first guy that get's shot
IMO, 2x Recon, 2x Assualt, 1x engineer, and 1x support, is probablely the best well balanced squad. SL could be any of the supporting role classes, as I do agree that having the SL a medic is just asking for atleast 2 deaths instead of one. Recon using APM on flag captures setting up a box coverage around the flag will help when the enemy tries to take it. If a pesky vehicle shows up, the Assaults and Recons cover while the Engy and the support take down the vehicle.
Load out for squad.
Recon:
Sniper Rifle of choice.
APM - To be an early warning device that enemy is coming from an unexpected area,
RDx - To be used to control choke points, or vehicle approaches. In Vietnam, the Marines would C4 their own emplacements, this was in case the position was overrun.
Assault:
Rifle of choice.
Rockets - To hit long distance enemies that are under cover or cover the Engy and support while they deal with vehicle.
Defib - Odviously to Revive people that die. But, done when it's safe not in the heat of battle.
Engineer:
Anti tank of choice.
Motion Mines - help in vehicle approach coverage.
Defuser - Deal with enemy mines of all kinds. Something that is very under used.
Support:
Gun of choice.
IDS - To help maintain areas of coverage.
Emp Grenades - To help the Engy take out armor or confuse and blind infantry.
On a Sidenote:
Having 4 people die running out to revive one, even if it's the SL, never made sense tactically. You just lost 4 tickets, instead of one. I don't know how many times I've been revived just to drop again and again, then watch as more and more Assualts pile up trying to revive the guy that just came out to revive me and so on and so on. I think this comes from people getting hounded about the revive score or ticket saving. So, they forget they need to clear the area or check that it's safe to revive. Smart revives FTW people.
Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.
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12-11-2007, 05:36 AM #27
Re: Squad balance
I agree with everything you've said here, great job. (I was going to condense the quote to only the stuff I agreed on or wanted to comment on, but all of your post pretty much falls under that category Originally Posted by Xen
) (the only thing I have a slight issue with, is I think that maybe two supports may be better than two recons (unless you have one with a Lambert, because you're limiting yourself in a close range battle with another squad, and if you're going to have motion mines and other explosives in youur squad, you want more than just one resupply.
Also, I think it is great that you've highlighted the whole revive the squad leader as soon as he's down, doesn't matter what the situation is attitude, which I don't agree with.
And yes, the difuser is very under used. I mean, a motion mine stopping the walker's progress through Toll on CamG or a cluster APMs that is forcing everyone to crouch or crawl through a chokepoint that they need to rush quickly.Anger is a gift - Malcolm X
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12-11-2007, 08:48 AM #28
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Re: Squad balance
With the increased effectivness of the sentry, I think that you need to look at that as an additional load-out on the support. I typically ask for 1 support with IDS and EMP and the one with a Sentry and EMP. Using the sentry in the right place can be effective now that it is more accurate.
I know that many people do not like the Gun-drone floating over the SL, but when being an SL as support it can help. If something is gonna float over my head, it may as well be able to shoot. Playing SL as Support I tend to go with the IDS and Sentry and the gun drone. This gives me the maximum amount of fire power while I do my job. Besides, it is funny to wathc the drone try and keep up with the FAV and it will help you if you are in an APC.
As for the recon, I believe that the recon class has not been under fire as much as being a sniper. Recon is very effective in a squad, as pointed out, if used properly. I do believe that you only need one, and with the camo it should be the SL.
And yes, Please clear the area before trying to revive. I know that on Camp G, I try to revive while running over the downed player.
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12-11-2007, 12:41 PM #29
Re: Squad balance
This is a technique that is hard to master, but is very, very helpful once you have. Diving to revive a squad mate--or anyone else, for that matter--leaves you in a very un-maneuverable position. I don't know how many times I've been able to kill both the reviver and the revivee because the person with the defib threw him or herself to the ground to revive, where if the reviver had kept on running, one or both might have been able to make it to cover. And remember that, if you don't get the revive on the first pass, you can always turn around and make another pass. Originally Posted by MDFubar
Thanks for the good thoughts on recons in a squad, guys!
I might try to incorporate some of them into my squad leading in the next week or two.
As for opinions on a be-all, end-all kit balance for a squad...honestly, I think it's all a matter of situation. It depends on a combination of the map, the objective, and the squad leader's overall style.
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12-11-2007, 01:01 PM #30
Re: Squad balance
Yup. Originally Posted by Arithea
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X
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