Rasta-GR

Hello to all,

Based on Eroak’s excellent post on “Squad Balance”, I like to discuss further the load out and tactics of an “APC Squad” on maps that are not “full armor” maps like Belgrade.

If an APC can stay operational for a long time during the battle, it can provide a mobile and safe spawn point for the squad. The ability to eject with an escape pod and thus move troops a bit forward is a tactic that needs more investigation and experiment.

APC squad should not be a “full blown” assault squad, I mean it does not have to engage much forward in the battle or try to capture a forward flag immediately. It should act like an “opportunity” or defensive squad, that scans the battlefield and find week enemy spots without armor vehicles if possible. Then the APC squad should move and engage from a close, but safe distance.

I propose a six person APC Squad:

1: SL, support, driver, gunner and EMP gunner, supply hub, IDS (optional)
2: Engineer, mortar gun, motion mines bait, motion mines (optional), mines (optional)
3: Assault, medic hub
4: Assault
5: Assault
6: Assault

At the start of a round, SL sticks an IDS on the vehicle and enters. The rest of the squad also mount on the APC and wait for SL orders. SL never leaves the APC and should retreat to allow the engineer to repair it, if health is under 80%.

The engineer role is to use the mortar gun, repair the vehicle if needed and clear any motion mines threatening the APC. If the situation permits, or ordered by the SL, the engineer could tactically lay some mines to trap enemy vehicles, if they ever pass from that point.

When SL gives a move order, they all mount the APC and go to the marked point. When near the order marker, the 4 assaults could bail out, or use their escape pods, and engage. Or they can stay inside the APC and use the mounted guns. The ACP should take a defensive position, providing cover, spot enemies and act as a squad spawn point. If trouble comes, squad could re-enter the ACP to re-supply and heal. Squad should stay close to the APC as possible.

If the order is to attack a flag, they all mount in and when the ACP is near that flag, the four assaults should use their escape pods to lunch and drop near the flag. APC should stay or do circles at some distance, in order to provide cover, spot enemies, re-supply and act as a spawn point. If the attack on the flag is successful, they should re-enter the APC immediately and wait for SL orders.

If enemy armor is near, then the APC should retreat to a safe position in order to allow the engineer to engage the enemy armor, with the help of the APC EMP gun.

If APC is destroyed, any live squad members should stay at their possitions (if safe) or retreat to a safer place in order to wait for the ACP. SL should spawn at the UCB and wait for the APC. Any dead SM's should wait the SL "spawn in" order. When APC is ready, SL should inform the squad that they can "spawn in" and drives the APC to pick up any SM's that are alive at the moment.

I have done some rounds with this setup in Belgrade and the results were very rewarding (thanks to my great squad mates!)

However, I don't know if these tactics are valid on the more open, all armor maps.

Regards.

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MDFubar

Well put, but I think you should have another engineer onboard. If the Engy is on the mortar then when you take damage he has to leave the mortar and someone else has to cover, same with motion mines. Daddyofthree and I ran an APC on Belgrade and we where very successful with the different squad members.
Now we where set up a little differently due to preferences, he likes to drive and I like to mortar.
Support drives and EMP's, constantly resupplying squad mates
Engy on the mortar, pairing up with a tank will repair the tank, with motion mines and MM bait
Engy onboard, he can reapir from inside and leave to throw MM bait without leaving the mortar unmanned. He can also assist with flags, the SMG is pretty good once you get used to it.
Three assaults to take flags and engage infantry the manages to get close.

Also, with this set-up, if you encounter a tank or other armor both Engy's can jump out and fire on the enemy armor. The Apc can retreat wioth the shield up, two shots from the engys should take down, or at least slow down, the enemy armor.
using the pods is very important, I can't tell you how many times I will drive towards a flag and actually have to tell the people in the APC to pod out to the flag. Most people will move to engage the enemy as they approach the flag, using the pods gives you a good tactical advantage to making more fronts. The person on the mortar can effectively keep the infantry under cover. Always remember to spot the enemy, especially if you see an Engy approaching.
Just my thoughts.

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"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- General George Patton Jr

Rasta-GR

Good points MDFubar.

As you said, a second engineer could help a lot. The mortar gun should be operational at all times.

I also see your point, regarding the engineer as assault role with the SMG gun. I am not good at shooting, but I had some good kills when using it.

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Anospa

Heh, Promqueen and I have a mindblowing APC tactic for Belgrade, we just gotta find a way to implement it effectively and avoid TKs.

*Hint You can mortar Com tower from many different areas of the map*

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"Brittle?! Dude you just took a localized tactical warhead to the face." -Eroak

Rasta-GR

Hi Anospa,

Why not share your "mindblowing APC tactic for Belgrade" with us?

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draeh

I think he may be saving it for the scrim against the War Hawks.

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Ikariam (Alpha)
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Nyyos[44:85]>Obesus Porcus-Wine

Anospa

Heh, perhaps, but, there's just way too many things that make it next to useless. Its more of a really cool tactic that doesn't flow well enough with the fast paced gameplay of 2142. Nevertheless, Draeh's got a real good point.

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"Brittle?! Dude you just took a localized tactical warhead to the face." -Eroak

SharinganTH1422

Aw damn, Fubar got there first. Yh, I was going to say you need the mortar operational at all times, it's such a powerful weapon. I would've suggested the same number of assaults and supports and engys, but I would have the engy swap with one of the assaults, so that the engy could enter and exit the vehicle while having the two main turrets operational, the assault would stay inside, (son you would only have three assaults on the ground) and the APC would acts as a supply box, stand next to it to get supplies and health, and the engy could get out quickly to repair any friendly vehicles passing by that need it. (Also, when up against a vehicle, if you had it under the EMP lock of the main turret, if you kept hitting it with mortar fire, it would take the attention off the engy making it's way towards the vehicle to cause some fireworks)

And Anospa...well, I'm guessing from the hint...you can hit Com tower with the mortar from many different places on the map right?

__________________
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

MDFubar

You don't have to get out to repair vehicles, just get next to them. Theoratically, if you run into a tank head on then the APC driver EMP's the tank. Retreats with the shield up, both ENGY's hop out and hit the tank, one ENGY on each side of the APC(if possible) giving the tnk three seperate targets. The ENGY's reload and the tank goes "BOOM". Get back in the APC and resume duties........2nd ENGY repairing any incurred damage.
The mortars do not do a lot of damage to a tank, but the tank drivers always seem to go for the APC. That leaves the two ENGY's to do thier thing, the Assualts get out and move away from the APC to provide cover from incoming infantry...especially Enemy ENGY's. As a matter of fact, the second ENGY is in a podable seat and can get a good position on the enemy.

__________________


"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- General George Patton Jr

Lorax74

He's going to park it on a rooftop and camp with it, either that or drive it across the monorail (running Bommando over in the process).\

Honestly, if you're good at gauging the mortar shots and have someone who can communicate where your shots are falling, you can wreak havoc with that thing.

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TG-9th Lorax74

SharinganTH1422

Anyone lost by Lorax's comment on Bommando, click here...1st time I saw I kacked myself laughing.

Yh, you look mean already Mean sniper kit.

__________________
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

Bagheera

Disclaimer: I don't get to play on TG servers all that often (east coast servers don't like my lame west coast ISP), so most of the bad behavior seen applies to west coast pubbies.

APCs are often misused. Quite often I'll see players hop in one and whore out the mortars (often with a single driver who switches seats to the mortar) hoping to get easy kills. This simply makes them an easy target, rather than the true strength of an APC, which is a mobile spawn point with delicious pods.

Whenever I grab an APC, I'll park it in a secure location, as a bonus spawn point, then continue on foot, where my squad members can spawn on me or the APC. Unfortunately, some yahoo eventually spawns on the APC, will park it at a CP or silo for an easy (they think) cap, and end up getting the APC destroyed, along with our bonus spawn point.

APCs are NOT offensive vehicles like tanks or walkers! APCs are offensive in the fact that they can mobilize an entire squad or an entire side for an offense at anywhere you choose. They are just as effective at defensive spawning as well. If you're defending a CP or silo, get someone to drive it out of the APC's spawn point, get it to an area where you can use the mortars to defend the CP/silo (remember, you can ARC the mortars over walls and buildings) and use it as an extra spawn point when defending.

The anti-infantry weapons are just that, ANTI-INFANTRY. They are used to defend the APC, not necessarily for mowing down enemy squads, or taking out enemy armor. Can it be used this way? Sure. Is there something better suited to mowing down enemy squads? Definitely. If you're hell bent on taking out enemy armor, duo with a tank or a walker, they will love you for your EMP grenade launcher, and use your anti-infantry guns and mortar launcher to take out those pesky engineers and recons trying to do bad things to your walker or tank buddy. Focus on them, NOT the armor (unless you're EMPing it.)

Rasta-GR

Well said Bagheera, I agree on most, but I have to comment on the above:

You should stay inside the APC at all times. SL as driver and a SM on mortars is mandatory. If SL leaves the APC, how could your SM's spawn on the APC? And as you said, if you leave the ACP, some rogue player will grab it and lead it to oblivion.

SL leaving the APC = No APC squad

To continue this fruitfull discussion, I would like your opinion on the followind situation:

If the APC is destroyed (SL dies), what the rest of the squad should do if alive?
(I assume that the SL will spawn back to the UCB to take the APC, and that any SM that dies will also spawn on the SL).

1) Stay where they are at the moment and fight, waiting for the APC?
2) Retreat to a safe position and wait for the APC?

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MDFubar

I would sya that, depending on the situation, stay and fight. Depending on your load-out of SM's also. IF only the SL and APC are destroyed, using the load-out I described, you would have two Engy's and 3 Assaults. They should be able to sustain themselves for a bit. The two Engy's should also be able to take out any approaching armor, until thier ammo runs out as the SL was Support. They should set ap a defensive point and hold thier position, await further instruction from thier SL. As they die, respawn on the SL and try again. But that would be my call as an SL, thos would be instruction that I would give my squad. Inevitably, they should get immediate instruction from the SL while he is waiting to respawn.

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"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- General George Patton Jr

SharinganTH1422

In response to the question from Rasta:

I think it depends on the situation. If you can go on fighting towards the nearest flag because there aren't many defenders, by all means, try and re-capture it, but if you are way outnumbered, you don't want to cause ticket bleed. If you can retreat, then do so, and try and find a place where you can meet up with your SL in the APC. (If this were to happen, the SL should communicate with the soldier that is the top scorer (unless you know who your SMs are and you pick someone you know can do the job) of members in the squad and is alive with the rest, to lead them to a safe location. When safe, the leader of the survivors should radio in to the SL to arrange a safe meeting point.

__________________
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...