Zeller or Default? - Page 6

SKsniper128 · 01-24-2008, 10:57 PM

Who ever said that you have to be the first one to open fire?

I always shoot once my squad has already engaged the enemy. Once in combat, medics are normally focused on making sure the area is clear before going in for the revive (or else someone else will just shoot them plain and simple). Just shoot the medic when he is busy trying to shoot your teammates.

And if a guy is foolhardy enough to go for the revive do the simple thing, and SHOOT HIM. Chances are that he is most likely already damaged from the fight and a single shot from the Zeller will down him. If not call out that the guy is trying to revive then make the shot so your teammate can quickly get him.

And stay back a little, snipers aren't the best CQB's and getting yourself killed won't help your team at all. But at most stay within 10m of the squad so that you have enough breathing space in the fight. My recommendation is to be on point so that if you see a guy you would have ample time to spot the bastard before the squad reaches him. Then go to the rear of the squad and shoot from there.

**MDFubar** · 01-25-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKsniper128

There is an easy solution to this.

Don't let them get close enough to take advantage of their higher rate of fire. keep the guy at at least 100m, any closer with the Zeller will get you killed. Take your shot, call out the enemy squad's position, and then reposition yourself for another shot. Medics are priority targets, everyone else can wait.

That and set up some APM's to cover likely routes to your position.

This is very interesting, because in another post we have:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKsniper128

And stay back a little, snipers aren't the best CQB's and getting yourself killed won't help your team at all. But at most stay within 10m of the squad so that you have enough breathing space in the fight. My recommendation is to be on point so that if you see a guy you would have ample time to spot the bastard before the squad reaches him. Then go to the rear of the squad and shoot from there.

Seems that you are contradicting yourself. So do you aty with your squad or move with them? Hang back at 100m or take point? I really would like you to clarify your position here and explain exactly whta it is that you are tryng to exsablish.

**jazy2** · 01-25-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagheera

Two headshots with a Baur isn't hard to do, if you know what you're doing. However, I wish that damn red dot sight was a helluva lot less opaque.

I think you can fix this in the settings for HUD, give it a try! (I might be wrong here)

SKsniper128 · 01-25-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDFubar

This is very interesting, because in another post we have:

Seems that you are contradicting yourself. So do you aty with your squad or move with them? Hang back at 100m or take point? I really would like you to clarify your position here and explain exactly whta it is that you are tryng to exsablish.

Not contradicting myself really, I was offering two different options. I was saying that the sniper should move with the squad but stay within 10m of their teammates.

So he could be on point while on the move, but allow the squad to move in front of him while in combat. That way the other guys can engage short to medium range, and the sniper (now behind his squad) can shoot without attracting as much fire.

**MDFubar** · 01-25-2008, 11:21 AM

But in the other post you say to maintain 100m distance between you and your targets.

Re-read both of your posts.

Bagheera · 01-25-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazy2

I think you can fix this in the settings for HUD, give it a try! (I might be wrong here)

I've tried EVERYTHING, there's just no way to do it.

When I snipe with the stock rifles or Zeller, I like to keep the opacity low on the sights, so it's easier to keep track of targets at extreme ranges, and they're not covered by my sights. With the Baur, I would love to do the same with the red dot, but there's no way to reduce the opacity, and at longer ranges the target invariably gets covered completely by the red dot, reducing my chance to predict their movement based on their body posture. This sucks because I know with actual red dot sights (at least the good ones) you can change opacity on them, and even color, typically red or green.

**Tarenth** · 01-25-2008, 09:04 PM

I too see the contradiction. You want to keep people 100m away from you, but still maintain 10m between you and your squad.

Unless you're squad is engaging the enemy from 90m (100-10=90) then the situation you are thinking of is definately a fantasy.

If you're on point then you will see the enemy about the same time they see you. Contrary to popular belief the recon kit does NOT provide improved optics. It provides improved magnification of the standard optics. Anything a recon can see anyone with any other kit can see.

You then propose giving away your position by being spotted and then running to the back of the squad thereby giving the opposing force the initive of the attack. Not only will they be firing first (having spotted you who are now retreating), but your squad has to hold fire while you retreat to the rear of the line from the point position in order to set up for your shots because they don't want to risk hitting you. So, you have a situation where you've given the enemy squad the initive of the attack AND you've handed your squad the disadvantage in terms of fire support and firepower.

Yeah...you're not making much of a case for yourself here.

Also you have to remember that in BF2142 all assault personel also double as medics. So targeting 'the medic' may sound like a good plan, but 'the medic' is actually half or more of the squad. "The medic" also comes equiped with a full assault rifle and long range rockets or a short range shotgun to make you a very unhappy person.

**MDFubar** · 01-26-2008, 09:45 AM

Also, the latest trend which I stick to most of the time, let's not forget the ability to revive on the run. I do not have to stop to revive a downed team mate. With practice, which everyone should practice this, you can sprint to the fallen soldier then defib and sprint away. Not saying that you can't be shot doing this, but it does make it much more difficult.

HeatSurge · 01-26-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagheera

When I snipe with the stock rifles or Zeller, I like to keep the opacity low on the sights, so it's easier to keep track of targets at extreme ranges, and they're not covered by my sights.

Your sights should be either leading your opponents, especially at extreme ranges, or shooting at them and killing them ASAP if they're stationary and you have a shot... I personally don't have an issue with my dots being completely opaque. I find it weird that you do, but whatever.

I find it annoying but in 2142, even the x4 scope zoomed in all the way, in prone posture, can show some deviation at really really far ranges (and even not hit targets when spot-on if they're really far away). Couple that with the bullet and internet lag, and it really makes life difficult. It's gratifying to hit a long shot on a side-moving target though. Even better if it's a headshot but those are rare, because I personally aim for the body in those situations for a better chance of a hit.

As far as the other comment(s) above, the snipers really have it hardest if we are looking at squad-play, and especially compared to classes like the assault who seem to have it all - the ability to revive, baur and rockets for long-range, standard or voss for short range. Assault is pretty much perfect for infantry maps, complemented only with perhaps having a supply soldier or two to do some infantry scans and give ammo. Engineers are always good on vehicle maps too, which make assault less-useful, but still ok to have for those moments fighting on foot around silos or flags.

Sadly, the sniper class is best operational (imo) away from a squad, and away from major action. The sniper rifle takes a second to aim, doesn't track well rotating to the side, and it doesn't provide a quick kill which is necessary in close face-offs. A lot of the unlocks are also meant to conceal your presence from view which kind of defeats their purpose if you're always trying to stay close to other people on your squad/team. What's the point of a decoy or a cloak if you're always within 15m of another fully visible person? I guess it would deliver some surprise, but not enough for the punch you need to prevail and help your potentially dead squadmate. The major advantage a sniper has is position and cover, and those are pretty hard to maintain while going close with a squad.

**Tarenth** · 01-26-2008, 08:18 PM

There is no sniper class in BF2142. There is a RECON class that people can use to play a sniper. Once you get away from thinking recon = sniper then you'll see how powerful a squad tool the recon can be in specific situations. Is it handy all the time? Well...no. There are plenty of times where the recon role can be substituted with another class and that class will do it better. Just like why you really wouldn't call for engineers if there are no vehicles to stop. Sure the SMG is good in CQC, but so is the Voss and Clark and those classes using them have more to offer.

On the accuracy. You have to account for bullet drop and travel time which can sometimes skew results. Especially if you have a moderate/high ping on the server. Also, prone isn't the best firing posture for accuracy. Amazingly the crouched position provides the same accuracy and you won't suffer from the shifting sights expansion that you would if prone. The accuracy penalties while prone is to discourage dolphin divers who hit prone the moment they come under fire.

**Guardianx11x** · 01-26-2008, 10:16 PM

I can see why a sniper would want their sights less opaque, however I dont do this myself because...well...I've never thought to do so really.

Quote:

I find it annoying but in 2142, even the x4 scope zoomed in all the way, in prone posture, can show some deviation at really really far ranges (and even not hit targets when spot-on if they're really far away). Couple that with the bullet and internet lag, and it really makes life difficult. It's gratifying to hit a long shot on a side-moving target though. Even better if it's a headshot but those are rare, because I personally aim for the body in those situations for a better chance of a hit.

I donno what to say to you. In my experience, the sniper rifles have almost zero deviation (about 0.5) if you are scoped in and not moving. I find that if a target isn't moving, I'll hit him 99% of the time between 200-350m as long as I account for bullet drop (which is very easy to do, you have a range finder!). So I've honestly never had this problem. Moving targets are harder to judge, but the gun is no less accurate. As far as it being gratifying to hit a long shot in the body...yeah...till you figure out that you just wasted a bullet if you didn't kill the person, and if you are aiming at the body...well...dont shoot.

Quote:

Sadly, the sniper class is best operational (imo) away from a squad, and away from major action. The sniper rifle takes a second to aim, doesn't track well rotating to the side, and it doesn't provide a quick kill which is necessary in close face-offs. A lot of the unlocks are also meant to conceal your presence from view which kind of defeats their purpose if you're always trying to stay close to other people on your squad/team. What's the point of a decoy or a cloak if you're always within 15m of another fully visible person? I guess it would deliver some surprise, but not enough for the punch you need to prevail and help your potentially dead squadmate. The major advantage a sniper has is position and cover, and those are pretty hard to maintain while going close with a squad.

Again, the sniper rifle tracks great from side to side (compared with plenty of other games). It provides the fastest kill of any other weapon, although it is harder to get that kill in CQC. And, yes....there are concealment unlocks, but the most important ones IMO are APM and RDX. Those are pretty useful for area denile. And lastly, I disagree. The greatest advantage a sniper has is his squadmates. They can take care of the CQC and keep him healthy, armed, and alive. If you are off by yourself you are probably not doing a whole lot to begin with. Also, you are screwed if things dont go perfectly as planned. Oh, and lastly...there is no good cover or great sniper positions in 2142. Yea, thats the problem. There is no tall grass....no small out of the way places. Most maps are pretty confined (esp. the ones we run on the TG server). This is not a game where youc an camp and hide. It just isnt. If you do this...you are playing the sniper role poorly (IMO).

Personally, I play recon with a sniper rifle. I run with the squad, do a lot of APM and RDXing, but most importantly, I make fast kills on the run. When played correctly, the sniper role can fill in the area's before where your squadmates had trouble engaging (med-long range infantry on the run), and added otus power. Also, I find that I'm much more useful in a well trained squad with talented players. For example...if crux, reaper, and azura are in my squad...there in no need for more CQC. They have that covered. Add Aruncado or Promqueen....they will get the revives. I've found that only when there are extremely talented players in my squad who can pick up the slack of not having that additional medic do I bring something to the table.

**Tarenth** · 01-27-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardianx11x

Also, I find that I'm much more useful in a well trained squad with talented players. For example...if crux, reaper, and azura are in my squad...there in no need for more CQC. They have that covered. Add Aruncado or Promqueen....they will get the revives. I've found that only when there are extremely talented players in my squad who can pick up the slack of not having that additional medic do I bring something to the table.

On TG servers Squad Synergy beats the crap out of lonewolfing and steals its lunch money to buy cat food for stray kittens.

Think of the kittens! Support Squad Synergy.

^---That sounds so funny on cough meds--^

Consciousness · 01-28-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote from above... "There is no sniper class in BF2142. There is a RECON class that people can use to play a sniper. Once you get away from thinking recon = sniper then you'll see how powerful a squad tool the recon can be in specific situations."

The recon and sniper ARE basically the same class in this game - the only decision is if you want a sniper or machine gun for your primary weapon. It's true you can emphasize your character toward a certain function --> sniper gun with stabilizer and apms = more of a sniper role .... lambert with rdx and camo = more of a recon role. .. it sounds like there are many on this forum who think that the using the sniper as the primary weapon is 'useless' for various reasons (not being near your squad or quickly becoming rocket fodder). However, I disagree.. first of all, most of the time I go sniper gun with rdx and apms.. so I can do 'recon' tasks as well .. and please stop declaring that the lambert can be used in place of the sniper rifle even for distance shots.. the lambert is just an auto pistol with a high rate of fire.. its very weak at distances..
I've been in situations before where I watched as my squad mates attempted to take a flag and I snapped off about 7 headshots (of defenders who were shooting at my squad mates) before I had to displace. When I got back to shooting, I took out another few dudes but I also watched as 3 of the squad mates basically just kept dying, they were laying on top of each other attempting to get the flag with multiple contacts surrounding them (pure death zone).. I'm just not sure how much more help I could have been for them if I was down there with the rest of them getting fragged .. ok well, I guess maybe the flag would have went nuetral about 2 miliseconds sooner.. there is your 'alleged' advantage of being bunched up together trying to do something 'useful' for the team.. in the end, the team lost because of the death toll .. why? I think because there weren't enough snipers supporting squads.. too many gun-ho assault guys all thinking that the only way to play the game is to run around with rockets and revives.. I think that it's the common thought that the sniper is useless on the battlefield not because it is useless, but because there aren't very many dudes on the field who are good at it. so people do not see a sniper being useful in many rounds.. and if even if they are being useful, they are not seen (literally) and so no one knows about it except for the K/D ratio; which is many times also looked down upon as if the guy was just being a noob and not really helping the team.. lets get a little more variety in the game and stop this sniper hating mantra please..

**MDFubar** · 01-28-2008, 05:45 PM

What server where you on? Because I am fairly sure it wasn't TG. Just to make this fairly clear........take everything that you think you know about the game, tactics, weapons and put it in a small envelope marked "Pub Servers". Put that in a file far, far away from your computer, get out a very larger notebook and play on the TG server.
No, we do not know everything but the tactics described on any pub server will not work in the TG server. It is that simple, you can argue all you want about the usefullness of a sniper in a pub server and be right on target. Those principles do not apply in our server because of the way we play, and yes there are a few others that play this way also, teamwork, communication, tactics, training, and I can go on.

Your post, 7 headshots, had to be an experience in a pub server simply due to the amount of time it takes to chamber, reload, scope, and shoot.

Just the opinion from someone that used to love to snipe, but no more in this game on this server.

**Guardianx11x** · 01-28-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Consciousness

The recon and sniper ARE basically the same class in this game - the only decision is if you want a sniper or machine gun for your primary weapon. It's true you can emphasize your character toward a certain function --> sniper gun with stabilizer and apms = more of a sniper role ....

If I pick up this kid...or any kit with a stablizer...I will hunt downt he owner IRL and slap him/her. Nobody should ever use the stablizer, ever..ever...ever. It is useless. If you use the stablizer, you need to stop.

01-24-2008, 10:57 PM	#76 (permalink)
SKsniper128 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 130	Re: Zeller or Default? Who ever said that you have to be the first one to open fire? I always shoot once my squad has already engaged the enemy. Once in combat, medics are normally focused on making sure the area is clear before going in for the revive (or else someone else will just shoot them plain and simple). Just shoot the medic when he is busy trying to shoot your teammates. And if a guy is foolhardy enough to go for the revive do the simple thing, and SHOOT HIM. Chances are that he is most likely already damaged from the fight and a single shot from the Zeller will down him. If not call out that the guy is trying to revive then make the shot so your teammate can quickly get him. And stay back a little, snipers aren't the best CQB's and getting yourself killed won't help your team at all. But at most stay within 10m of the squad so that you have enough breathing space in the fight. My recommendation is to be on point so that if you see a guy you would have ample time to spot the bastard before the squad reaches him. Then go to the rear of the squad and shoot from there. __________________ 300 to 1? No problem. Might need more bullets though...

01-25-2008, 11:21 AM	#80 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 41 Posts: 1,969	Re: Zeller or Default? But in the other post you say to maintain 100m distance between you and your targets. Re-read both of your posts. __________________ \|TG-Irr\| MDFubar "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST JOIN THE IRREGULARS**

01-25-2008, 09:04 PM	#82 (permalink)
Tarenth Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,198	Re: Zeller or Default? I too see the contradiction. You want to keep people 100m away from you, but still maintain 10m between you and your squad. Unless you're squad is engaging the enemy from 90m (100-10=90) then the situation you are thinking of is definately a fantasy. If you're on point then you will see the enemy about the same time they see you. Contrary to popular belief the recon kit does NOT provide improved optics. It provides improved magnification of the standard optics. Anything a recon can see anyone with any other kit can see. You then propose giving away your position by being spotted and then running to the back of the squad thereby giving the opposing force the initive of the attack. Not only will they be firing first (having spotted you who are now retreating), but your squad has to hold fire while you retreat to the rear of the line from the point position in order to set up for your shots because they don't want to risk hitting you. So, you have a situation where you've given the enemy squad the initive of the attack AND you've handed your squad the disadvantage in terms of fire support and firepower. Yeah...you're not making much of a case for yourself here. Also you have to remember that in BF2142 all assault personel also double as medics. So targeting 'the medic' may sound like a good plan, but 'the medic' is actually half or more of the squad. "The medic" also comes equiped with a full assault rifle and long range rockets or a short range shotgun to make you a very unhappy person. __________________ My sanity is not in question... It was a confirmed casualty some time ago. \|TG\|Tarenth Battlefield 2142 Mirra World of Warcraft Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.

01-26-2008, 09:45 AM	#83 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 41 Posts: 1,969	Re: Zeller or Default? Also, the latest trend which I stick to most of the time, let's not forget the ability to revive on the run. I do not have to stop to revive a downed team mate. With practice, which everyone should practice this, you can sprint to the fallen soldier then defib and sprint away. Not saying that you can't be shot doing this, but it does make it much more difficult. __________________ \|TG-Irr\| MDFubar "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST JOIN THE IRREGULARS**

01-26-2008, 08:18 PM	#85 (permalink)
Tarenth Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,198	Re: Zeller or Default? There is no sniper class in BF2142. There is a RECON class that people can use to play a sniper. Once you get away from thinking recon = sniper then you'll see how powerful a squad tool the recon can be in specific situations. Is it handy all the time? Well...no. There are plenty of times where the recon role can be substituted with another class and that class will do it better. Just like why you really wouldn't call for engineers if there are no vehicles to stop. Sure the SMG is good in CQC, but so is the Voss and Clark and those classes using them have more to offer. On the accuracy. You have to account for bullet drop and travel time which can sometimes skew results. Especially if you have a moderate/high ping on the server. Also, prone isn't the best firing posture for accuracy. Amazingly the crouched position provides the same accuracy and you won't suffer from the shifting sights expansion that you would if prone. The accuracy penalties while prone is to discourage dolphin divers who hit prone the moment they come under fire. __________________ My sanity is not in question... It was a confirmed casualty some time ago. \|TG\|Tarenth Battlefield 2142 Mirra World of Warcraft Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.

01-28-2008, 05:30 PM	#88 (permalink)
Consciousness Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dallas Posts: 10	Re: Zeller or Default? Quote from above... "There is no sniper class in BF2142. There is a RECON class that people can use to play a sniper. Once you get away from thinking recon = sniper then you'll see how powerful a squad tool the recon can be in specific situations." The recon and sniper ARE basically the same class in this game - the only decision is if you want a sniper or machine gun for your primary weapon. It's true you can emphasize your character toward a certain function --> sniper gun with stabilizer and apms = more of a sniper role .... lambert with rdx and camo = more of a recon role. .. it sounds like there are many on this forum who think that the using the sniper as the primary weapon is 'useless' for various reasons (not being near your squad or quickly becoming rocket fodder). However, I disagree.. first of all, most of the time I go sniper gun with rdx and apms.. so I can do 'recon' tasks as well .. and please stop declaring that the lambert can be used in place of the sniper rifle even for distance shots.. the lambert is just an auto pistol with a high rate of fire.. its very weak at distances.. I've been in situations before where I watched as my squad mates attempted to take a flag and I snapped off about 7 headshots (of defenders who were shooting at my squad mates) before I had to displace. When I got back to shooting, I took out another few dudes but I also watched as 3 of the squad mates basically just kept dying, they were laying on top of each other attempting to get the flag with multiple contacts surrounding them (pure death zone).. I'm just not sure how much more help I could have been for them if I was down there with the rest of them getting fragged .. ok well, I guess maybe the flag would have went nuetral about 2 miliseconds sooner.. there is your 'alleged' advantage of being bunched up together trying to do something 'useful' for the team.. in the end, the team lost because of the death toll .. why? I think because there weren't enough snipers supporting squads.. too many gun-ho assault guys all thinking that the only way to play the game is to run around with rockets and revives.. I think that it's the common thought that the sniper is useless on the battlefield not because it is useless, but because there aren't very many dudes on the field who are good at it. so people do not see a sniper being useful in many rounds.. and if even if they are being useful, they are not seen (literally) and so no one knows about it except for the K/D ratio; which is many times also looked down upon as if the guy was just being a noob and not really helping the team.. lets get a little more variety in the game and stop this sniper hating mantra please..

01-28-2008, 05:45 PM	#89 (permalink)
MDFubar Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Castle, DE Age: 41 Posts: 1,969	Re: Zeller or Default? What server where you on? Because I am fairly sure it wasn't TG. Just to make this fairly clear........take everything that you think you know about the game, tactics, weapons and put it in a small envelope marked "Pub Servers". Put that in a file far, far away from your computer, get out a very larger notebook and play on the TG server. No, we do not know everything but the tactics described on any pub server will not work in the TG server. It is that simple, you can argue all you want about the usefullness of a sniper in a pub server and be right on target. Those principles do not apply in our server because of the way we play, and yes there are a few others that play this way also, teamwork, communication, tactics, training, and I can go on. Your post, 7 headshots, had to be an experience in a pub server simply due to the amount of time it takes to chamber, reload, scope, and shoot. Just the opinion from someone that used to love to snipe, but no more in this game on this server. __________________ \|TG-Irr\| MDFubar "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton Jr Acknowledge your teammates' Outstanding and Distinguished efforts: Submit a nomination NEW TO TG START HERE SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP ADMIN LIST JOIN THE IRREGULARS**

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