sc1ence

This is useful on very large armor maps when you may have time to get out and defuse each one while being covered. On large armor maps, I run out of mine bait quick.

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Icehawk217

I usually use the MMB, because in large armor maps where you have enough time to defuse each mine, you probably have enough space to move around the mines. If you are near a base, then it would be much easier to just throw one MMB, especially if the engy spread the mines out.

But if you are no where near enemies then you could defuse them, but it just wastes time. And a support guy in the squad eliminates the lack of ammo.

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"Give a man a match and he'll be warm for a minute. Light the man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life"

MDFubar

On armor maps if you are in armor or engaging it, you should always have support with the Engy. When I make anti-armor squads it usually consists of 2 support, 2 assault, and 2 engys. They can keep two fire teams armed, alive, and take dwon some armor.

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Bagheera

I disagree, APMs are even more useful on servers like TG, where the squads tend to bunch together more on chokepoints, than on servers where there are more people lonewolfing. The reason? APMs can kill multiple people within a blast radius. Add to that a smart Recon player who puts a second explosive (such as an RDX) somewhere behind the APM, and he can get even more kills. It goes something like this;

1) Recon player sees APM spam, 2 or more deaths. He knows there is a squad that just faced the business end of his APM, as opposed to a lonewolfer.

2) Recon player has placed his RDX a few meters further down from the APM, knows that the squad is probably reviving, and moving past the now detonated APM. He gives a few seconds (5-10 seconds) and detonates the RDX. Boom! Most of the squad goes bye-bye. This can be accomplished with visual cues, or by simply counting (as stated earlier.) Very useful in places such as stairwells, corners, Titan hallways, and other chokepoints/rest points for squads. A particularly sneaky Recon player will place explosives not just on defense points (such as flags) but on areas where the enemy is likely to hide from sniper bullets, rockets, and bullets in general. When they think they're safe.... Boom!


I mention this because it's important to defuse explosives you think are dangerous. The things that can do this are - Defuser, other explosives (tossing an RDX on a suspicious explosive then getting the hell out of Dodge), and the Zeller. Don't take that chance and let the guy who placed it there detonate it on top of you.

Reaperassault

unless you kill all of the squad you have accomplished nothing but waste a minute of that squads time, could be useful for your team, it could be devastating if you said that they were all dead and everyone else moves up and the SL is running and caps a back flag and you lose.

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Bagheera

Huh? From what I gather, you're saying a solo or squad player should always attempt to kill an entire squad, or he is useless? So, my engineer and my assault guy should either kill an entire squad, or just not bother? Explosives and whatnot are a squad asset, not an individual's asset, and a good recon player will use them in concert with his squad. They are dangerous, which is why I posted these methods here, in order to highlight the importance of the AE defuser, and the importance of defusing explosives in general. Quite often, the engineer in the squad won't have an AE defuser, so half the time I end up using RDX to disable explosives for my squad, when I play recon. When I play assault, tough luck, we take our chances with live explosives. Let's get this thread back on track, and discuss the pros and cons of defusing explosives.

Consciousness

Agree. I've noticed quite a lot of negativity toward recon/sniper class on this forum. It seems there is a mindless drone-like chant about how the only effective means for 'helping' the team is to run around with rockets and revives and unless you take out the whole squad, you have done nothing. Well, causing heavy causualities on the enemy will also help bleed the ticket count and help the team toward a win. Besides, while the last few guys who are still alive are reviving, they are static and in a known position and have had to endure forced delays on the attack; it probably won't be long until they are all dead. But then again, not many people are able to be this helpful as recon because of the skill level required; people assume a snipers skill based on these guys lonewolfing just laying prone up on the top of hill and they are easy rocket fodder. And yes, I already know the reply, 'prove it', so either I'll make a video some day or join a round on TG for demonstrative purposes.

Tarenth

The negitivity towards snipers is generally because people who are so adament about their worth can't seem to get the difference between recon and sniper straight with themselves and so end up botching up their efforts of persuasion.

Example: Using APMs and RDX to get kills is NOT a sniper play style. It is a RECON play style and saying "I can be effective as a sniper when I use nonsniper equipment" is like shooting yourself in the foot to prove how effective pistols are.

Now the best use of APMs would be to create choke points in open areas. Unless someone has been designated the role of 'lemming' and blows the APMs for the squad (always gettting revived to do it again which negates the effectiveness of APM kills) then the squad will generally crouch past which slows their forward movement dramatically. Unless you can kill the entire squad with the APM and RDX you've planted as a trap then you're not going to do more than waste a few seconds of their time since someone will be left to bring the entire squad up again and no tickets will be lost.

Of course, you could do things the TG way and say that RDX and APMs are an effective trenching tool when a full squad is taking a defensive position and not a killing tool. That puts the emphasis on the squad doing the killing and the APMs and RDX being more of a 'last line' or distraction toolset. In such a situation a combat marksman or recon explosives expert with the squad is useful when deploying such measures. That emphasis is placed on fast movement and shots of oppertunity in close/medium range and not the "camp prone and patiently make shots" that the snipers we are adament against seem to favor.

If you favor your rifle and stick with your squad always then you are a combat marksman.
If you favor APM/RDX and stick with your squad always then you could pick up the Lambert and be a recon explosives expert.
If you think sitting on a hilltop taking pot shots as people in effective, then read the statements of why snipers are useless.

I have no problem with recons or combat marksmen. Its snipers that generate ire I believe.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Reaperassault

take assaulting EU base at camp G, if I had an egni with me and the defuser then it would take loner to defuse the 2 APMs and 5 RDX that is laid down than send 3 guys in get the falg neutral watch some fire works, with the flag still neutral so no one can spawn in, stat pad some revives and cap the flag and move on to defense.

don't get me wrong being effective as a sniper is simple wipe out the immediate opposition, on the TG server most like that force is from 4-6 people. It happens some times where the sniper will win but 95% of the time its the other way around.

RDX is one of the best ambush weapons, you just have to know what you are up against, two people close together great easy kills and you win, a squad spaced properly with decent medics will not be so easy, especially if they have an engi with the Defuser of DOOM.

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Bagheera

This is why I recommend an Engineer with defuser or a Recon with RDX to move ahead of squad slightly in cases of suspected explosives, to be the sacrificial lamb in case things go wrong (he can always be revived.) If they don't go boom, then they make the area safe from explosives for the rest of their squad. Yay!

Reaperassault

Ok since you, or any one else for that mater, thinks that they are so fantastical with the defuser, come join my squad and we will find a flag or choke point that is RDXerized and test you skills. I'm on pretty much 6pm EST till whenever on the TG conquest server.

you can even buddy me under: reaperassualt
or xfire: reaperassault

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Bagheera

Sorry, Defuser isn't my top weapon. I typically only play Engineer on wide open vehicle maps, and there aren't a lot of opportunities to defuse when everyone is so spread out, and I'm tracking vehicles with long shots with my guided missiles.

I usually toss a single RDX on suspicious explosives, then run. How is that for defusing?

However, the sacrificial lamb + revive is a good crutch too, so if you have success with that method, don't let me be the one to stop you. This is why I'll be switching to PR soon, because revive squads are rather unrealistic, and remove the death deterrent that used to be prevalent in FPS strategy games. However, in 2142, it's all about the revives, so that's why the sacrificial lamb is usually the best tactic for explosives, as you've pointed out Reaper.

However, isn't that against the TG primer? Doesn't that count as a suicide tactic?

nuckj

Defuser vs. motion mines = useless (use bait)

Defuser vs. RDX = good chance you get blown up before you defuse the demopack.

Defuser vs. APM = possibly useful...but likely someone will trip it while you are approaching it to defuse or it would be easier just to avoid it or revive past it.

Conclusion: Defuser could be useful in some scenarios but the odds are stacked against it. The fast pace of the game really takes away from it's usefulness.

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Grimmfist

I found the defuser can be used 10-11 meters from motion mines emp mines and rdx. I am going to believe that the same would be true for apms. This represents a rather good distance for defusing rdx near a flag, apms on a flag or the bunched up motion mines along roads. With a well run squad an engineer doesn't need to be in the open not protected by suppressing fire or at least letting the engy know when enemy is coming. Maybe the defuser is better for engineer on maps like Camp G where apms and rdx are prevalent. Imagine the engineer defusing apms and rdx around a flag while it is going neutral surprising the recon when they see the rdx not work and the flag turn.

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