Bagheera

1 skilled sniper can take out 2 rocketeers, however there is a problem when there are 3 or 4 more rocketeers behind him, all with defibs.

The problem with rockets isn't that they are in game, is that they are too easy to use, turning them into a "so easy an idiot can use it" sniper rifle, coupled with the fact that the same guy carrying it has a defib and assault rifle as well.

Can you imagine if a sniper rifle shot 3-4 bullets in succession without having to chamber, with very little recoil, and if that same sniper had defibs AND an assault rifle on him?

Specterr

We would call that a Baur I believe

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Uranium - 235

PK Rockets and the Pilum are the two lamest most overpowered weapons in the game. Fact.

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Lorax74

I can understand why people say that about rockets, but why the Pilum? The engineers default weapon is a onehit kill as well, and you can guide it to the target and not have to worry as much about shot deviation.

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Ikariam (Alpha)
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pred011586

Lorax, unlike the default weapons, the Pilum does not warn the driver of the vehicle that it is being aimed at. If you've ever heard that beep while in a tank, then a Rorsche, or Mitchel/Sudvik is being aimed at you. But you'll die to a pilum before you even know it's coming.

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[T-BAGZ]Pred011586

Reaperassault

that is why a lot of people use the pilum but I feel the deviation balances the weapon well enough versus the tone and precision of the Mitchel/Sudnik.

I feel that this game is very well balanced and rockets do take a decent amount of skill to use properly. new people who shoot rockets are easy bait to shoot back, so I must disagree with most of your statements uranium. I'm not sure what most people's setting are at but on high detail rockets and grenades have trails that are dead give aways to your position.

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Uranium - 235

Think of it as a sniper rifle that makes enemy heads the size of a school bus. In fact, if you think about it, when it comes down to 'filling their role', Engineers are extremely overpowered. Two guided missile launchers they barely need to aim, the Pilum as mentioned, and the SAAW which does, again, a ton of damage, and is pretty much extremely overkill. Gunships are useful, but they're not so powerful that a certain weapon that smacks off half their life and can lock on halfway across a map was needed to counter them. BF2 aircraft they are not.

That's assuming you survived the spam attack, and then what are you going to do? Most likely, you're going to shoot rockets right back at them. My problem with rockets is that they are extremely easy to use (accurately hitting people behind cover can take a little bit of time to learn, but it's not really anything significant), to the point that hitting people in the open unzoomed is just spam spam spam. With an extremely high refire rate and even with 3-4 shots, with a splash damage weapon you can lethally saturate a small area and easily kill two-three people.

Grenading a corpse can be lethally effective, but a grenade makes noise, can be seen, has a short delay, and is rather limited by range (plus, learning how to throw them right takes some learning. Again not much, but it has to be mentioned). Rocketing a corpse removes just about all of these 'danger indicators' of a grenade, including far longer range, and you can keep reloading to keep doing it!

When someone throws a grenade at me, I can haul ass out of there. When someone fires rockets at me, by the time I get damaged by the first one, it's too late, I *AM* going to die, because there's three more coming in half a second behind it, too fast for me to do **** about it. Rockets also make cover completely obsolete, which in my opinion did the game some serious harm. Defensive positions are now worthless, sitting in one place for more than a few seconds means you're going to die, and while once upon a time, a building window was a good vantage point, in the world of 2142, you're probably safer running around in the open than you are in a stationary DFP.

The rocket should've been like the OICW 'smart' grenades that are air-detonated to flush people out of cover. The mistake was giving you three of them, three reloads, and for god knows what reason, an unlock to give you one more of each. It should've been a slightly more powerful single-shot.

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Reaperassault

Before I begin my response I'd like to define a term for everyone here.

Spam - the act of repeatably sending fire without intent. This is my but seams to be a fair definition. Please don't confuse spam with shooting an area that has targets in it.

I wish pilums were that accurate, but they are not I bet you couldn't hit a decently aware player at 75m with a pilum with or with out cover.

The engy weapons provide balance to the armor. If your armor gets flanked you pay for it, but when piloted correctly armor is very powerful and it lies in the hand of the squishy infantry to deal with it.

I agree SAAWs are a bit much but I am very glad that gunships in 2142 are not the aircraft from BF2 from the way you describe, where two guys can dominate the other team with out the need for the rest of the team. the gunship best fills the role of Anti-air and Anti-armor, its good at anti-infantry but poses considerable risk to the gunship to be low enough and slow enough to peg infantry.

easily done by changing your distance from the shooter. Run forward or back not side to side. If they are shooting no-scope just keep your back away from a wall and you're ok.

sure but its truly dependent on the situation at hand.

Such as point and click easy to use like the majority of weapons in this game. Shooting people in the open is easy anyways. Since hitting people behind cover isn't really anything significant then I'll leave it be for now.

Sounds like you just described a good tool to defeat a hardened defense. The rate of fire on rockets isn't that high, its average at best. I like killing people and its easer to do so when people clump together.

Grenades work better at keeping bodies down actually. first off you don't have to reload you can put three grenades on a target if necessary and when timed correctly you can completely cover a body for 10-12 seconds, and the noise give away is pretty much when you hear it you die, not much of a give away other than that now you need a revive as well. Rockets on the other hand have to be reloaded and that takes a good +3 seconds to do so and provides the perfect opportunity to go in for a revive. rockets have plenty of give away signals such as the big bright light coming towards you.

The same can be done with rockets change distance not direction. Another slightly overlooked way of dodging rockets is don't stand directly behind your cover if you can. Put a little bit of distance in between you and your cover, it still works the same at stopping bullets and rockets are less of a problem by putting a little bit of guessing into peoples ranges.

most likely not since
If I had a regular grenade that could be air-detonated at a set distance I would kill a lot more people. Rockets are not that strong but 2-3 well placed rockets will kill you. One close grenade will kill you, one close RDX will kill you... the list can go on. There are a lot of one hit kills on this game and rockets are not one of them.

Overall they are balanced enough to the point of one man can't kill the entire team with them but when used with brains they are a good tool for clearing out enemies behind cover and people to over expose themselves.

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Bagheera

Baurs have mad shot to shot recoil, sorry, no cigar.
Plus, they're not as effective as rockets or sniper rifles at range.

That being said, it's still my favorite assault rifle. However, when I want to go easy mode, I use the PAC assault rifle, plus it looks cool. I don't even bother with the Voss, it's ridiculously stupid overpowered easy, an ugly gun, and screams "noobcannon".

Uranium - 235

First, Pilums aren't as inaccurate as you seem to say. They aren't Zellers, but they aren't shotguns either. Secondly, I was comparing how 'hard' and 'skilled' it was to instantly destroy a tank, or just about any vehicle, as it would be to kill someone with a sniper rifle that made everyone's head the size of a bus. With zero warning, an engineer can just crouch behind something, wait for the tank to roll past, and kill it in ONE SHOT to its ENORMOUS BACKSIDE.

Getting killed by a Pilum doesn't make me feel like I got outsmarted, like getting ambushed by a guy with a shotgun and killed in one shot (or knifed). It doesn't make me feel outplayed like getting hit by a perfect headshot from a sniper on the edge of my vision. It makes me feel like I got robbed. It's a cheap kill, using a cheap weapon, using a lame gameplay mechanic. Tanks are present on vehicle maps, and aren't nearly as powerful as you try to claim. Tanks are for anti-vehicle use. They can double as anti-infantry in a pinch, but they are pretty much the worst vehicles in the game for that purpose. APCs sure are, but the funny thing is, an APC can survive more damage than a tank. That's idiocy.

For god's sakes, the Pilum is such an absurd joke, people just jump in FAVs and suicidally charge tanks to jump out and get an instant, free bull**** kill on them from behind.

Not as easy as you like to make it sound. A tiny bit off and you're going to do zero damage. A tiny bit off with a rocket and you do 42 damage instead of 48. It's a splash-damage weapon, therefore, less aim is required by virtue of its design.

Or a light defense. Or a hasty defense. Or a single bit of cover during a firefight. Or a light offense. Or a heavy offense. Or a squad. Or individual soldiers. The rocket isn't situational except for point-blank ranges. Its ability to suppress any area and do lethal damage at the same time is unsurpassed.

A simple look at how much asinine PK Rocket spam goes on in the TG server alone will validate this claim. Its use has almost nothing to do with 'breaking a defense', because it will kill people everywhere, quite effectively too.

The nuclear frag grenades are one thing, but I never said it should be an airborne FRG-1, did I? :P

Because the only alternative is to die an explosive, lame death, that's why. They aren't balanced if a single, easy unlock that EVERYONE carries can disrupt an entire squad's offensive. They don't cause disruption like an EMP strike might - they cause disruption because they are EXTREMELY LETHAL and EXTREMELY EASY.

You said yourself - clearing out enemies behind cover - Cover is WORTHLESS in this game, because of rockets. You said yourself it's safer to stand away from a wall (ie in the open) than it is to be behind cover.

Cover should be defensive. That's why it's in the game. That's why we have bunkers, walls, sandbags, etc. Rockets are why nobody bothers with any of that crap. You make it sound like one guy carries rockets for every ten people on the server. I myself haven't taken anything BUT rockets when playing Assault since I unlocked them a year ago.

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Reaperassault

Prove it to me then lets go test out some stuff and see if anyone can hit a specific object when the need arises at +50m.

it just means you are a bigger target that gets aimed for more often, why because you are in a huge vehicle that makes a lot of noise and is big and strong. getting killed in a tank (from how you are describing things) is exactly like getting ambushed, roll into the wrong situation and die.

If you pilot them knowing their strengths and weaknesses then you can use them quite effectively.

APCs have a special spot too... while it is smaller its still there

sounds like the tank you described just got buggie doomed by several good people. its a smart tactic used to destroy armor. if the tank driver is not attentive to his surroundings it puts them at higher risk of being killed just like any other person on the field.

I have given my advice on avoiding rocket fire please see my other post. and take this into consideration the TG server is packed with very talented people who work together and know what they are doing.

you did however say grenade and since we are talking about BF2142 I'm talking about the only grenade in the game.


any unlock or even the default items can disrupt a squad.

no I said its a good idea to stand a bit behind your cover not in the open so please don't put words in my mouth.

here is a simple illustration of my point now with huge rocket explosions!


cover is a means of protecting your self from gunfire.

please point out where I said that.

so you are just as guilty as the rest of us for taking one of the most flexible weapons in the game yet you hate the weapon and its design.

Please don't take anything the wrong way, I am trying to help you and the community become better. If anyone has any questions for anything make sure to ask!

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Zhohar

For this to happen, the tank would need to be away from its squad and completely unaware of its surroundings. The purpose of armor is to assist a squad in its infantry pushes. In return, the squad provides intel and eliminates the enemy engineers carrying Pillums. This symbiosis has been proven true and mutually beneficial in both the real world and in Battlefield.

The Pillum's damage against armor's weakspots is balanced by its inaccuracy and lack of remote guidance. At the same time, the engineer hoping to get into position that would expose him to the weakspots is extremely vulnerable against the armor's ground infantry squad mates.

The same is true for the tank -- it is lethal against infantry and armor but when it gets too encouraged by its killing power and leaves the safety of its squad, a simple, stealthy, and aware engineer can take it down in a matter of moments.

You will notice experienced armor drivers (ex. Lyra or Eroak) -- 90% of the time, they are behind or with the team they are playing with. This ensures that friendly infantry is covering their back and flanks which means all fire coming toward their armor comes at the front -- their strongest point.

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Azura

To cut in: Yea rockets are strong. Tanks are bullet proof, well there isn't much you can really say that will change anything. The only way to deal with Rockets for example will be strategies to negate the effects of rockets.

Like Reaper mentioned, pressing up again cover is generally a bad idea due to the range finder. Also, your probably going to clip hence you will be getting shot in the hand when you are out of sight. So, instead of going on about rockets, I'll throw in some strategies I use.

First off, in a well round squad, you really can revive faster than the next barrage. Even against multiple rocket users, there really shouldn't be a reason why the whole squad gets wiped. There should be atleast one guy hanging in the backside, preparing for revives and flank coverage. Especially in the buildings on Belgrade.

Secondly, bring the fight to them! I find it very easy to charge into a building that is rocketing and bring my pain onto them. Also, the whole long range of rockets can be really negated. Why would you want to shoot someone who is plus 150 meters with an Assault Rifle? Yea it's got long range capabilities, but med packs and sprint will save them!

Thrice! In battlefield, plans will always change on the fly. Your defense get's flanked, you turn your squad and prepare to engage. You decide to dig in and well they start bombarding you with rockets. Run away! Make them come to you.

--- Sort of like the APC at Com Tower/Ruin passageway. To this day I'll never understand why people still choose to keep their heads poked around the corner!

Also, you have so many options you can do to avoid rockets it's ridiculous. Whenever setting up for a firefight, check your surroundings. Rockets are very slow and you sprint faster, with a good amount of Navigation, you should be able to move without much damage at all. Personally, my favorite is never being a target of an enemy until I'm within 50 meters, it's hard to do so sometimes, but their rockets start becoming useless against fast toes!

I never really had a problem with rockets in this game. They are annoying at times, just like any weapon that is shot at you but I've never had a hatred for it, or any other weapon in battlefield. Well except the APM because like I got killed millions of times by them. Aside from that, I constantly use cover and still don't have a problem. Yea I got to move more, but popping up and down in the same spot is a bad idea anyways. Rockets to me give away your position and help me pick targets, especially they leave a very big trail. They are just as balanced as the Herzog in my opinion!

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Kaboodles

I believe the Pilum does less damage to the harder parts of vehicle armor than the stock weapons, so there's that too. You really need to hit the weak spots to do much of anything alone.

Bagheera