Re: Smoke grenades

**pred011586** · 04-20-2009, 11:25 PM

Needed some kind of cover to get from Statue to Ruins without being easy kills to the tank. The whole layout wasn't planned by me, my SMs just happened to be in those positions. When I stopped to analyze the situation upon arriving at the flag I realized what we had and realized that tank was screwed.

I had the smoke grenades because we were rushing statue awhile back, didn't die during the rush, so I used them there, hoping it'd help, which it did. Very much so. =D

**sc1ence** · 08-11-2009, 02:57 PM

So do the same arguments against the use of smoke in this thread still hold weight? I have been away since a few weeks after patch 1.5 landed. I notice that people on the server are using it frequently, and to good effect.

I also get laughed at when people realize I am not just throwing smoke to act like a fool.

**Lyramion** · 08-11-2009, 03:22 PM

No dice for Smoke Grenades even in 2009

**Zoraster** · 08-11-2009, 03:27 PM

I think the main arguments stand.

1. Rockets and defibs are essential.
2. Smoke, while it can obscur some vision, is not nearly as smokey as, say, CSS
3. IDS, otus, and uavs make smoke's potential benefits quite a bit less.
4. Even in the best of times, it's extremely situational, and not having rockets could quickly put you at a disadvantage.

So I view it like I view the herzog, sentry gun, stabilizer, or disarmer... They're all useful, and if there wasn't an inventory limit, I'd use all of them at times. But they're rarely (except the sentry gun) the BEST choice which is what's important.

**Fruvous** · 08-11-2009, 04:46 PM

I would like smoke grenades more, except it only poofs. It's like, 1 second of semi-transparent smoke in a 2x2 meter area?

**Math_Magician** · 08-11-2009, 10:07 PM

Yes the smoke doesn't seem to last for long.

**Deterhek** · 08-11-2009, 10:28 PM

IMO rockets outweight smokes 99% of the time. There are times when smokes can be useful, but really rockets give you more of an edge in a firefight. Rockets wound and kill, smokes decrease the situational awareness of both you and your enemy generally, and don't actually hurt them. What would you rather?
A) Have something that you know will damage the enemy in many different situations.
B) Have something that will block the visibility of your enemy and possibly yourself in only a few situations.
Do smokes generally give you much of a tactical advantage? No. Do rockets? YES.
In most cases smokes aren't used as effectively as they can be anyways. Most people have not had experience with them, while almost everyone can use rockets well-at least more than smoke grenades.

On the subject of radar grenades, the support unit in your squad should always be carrying an IDS so that makes them overkill. Besides you only get one and while the support is resupplying you he is also resupplying his IDS. The IDS lasts longer and covers more area (I think) which IMO makes it much more useful than the radar nade.

**Fruvous** · 08-12-2009, 04:58 AM

Radar grenades would have its use, even if you have a support.
It's lan IDS that you can throw like a grenade.
If you're about to go on oilstation flag, there might be a great distance you have to cover from building to flag, hill to flag, etc to flag. A range that the IDS won't allow.
A throwable IDS would be hot in this situation.. of course, once you know where they are, yous till need a medic with rockets.

**SIDIOUS** · 08-12-2009, 12:00 PM

useless

**Yaor890** · 08-13-2009, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by SIDIOUS

useless

Lol
I think it would only be useful for people that are not proficient with rockets yet...But those people need to learn how to use rockets.

**Mixa** · 08-13-2009, 09:47 AM

They also block view of the user which is logical, but in a way never give the benefit the user wants.

Couple days ag on the first flag on FoB enemy squad rushed in with smokes out, I rushed in the flag and took out 4/6 because they were unable to see me (and busy throwing more smokes).

Not recommended, rockets don't need to see through it, nor nades!

**MrJengles** · 08-16-2009, 09:25 PM

Blah...well, I'm not saying smoke is some awesome under-used piece of equipment, but it still has it's uses occasionally...ok rarely. But, saying it obscures your view equally to your opponents and so negates it's own use simply means your using it wrong XD perhaps you 2 not being able to see eachother is a good thing...how about when they have cover and you don't so you remove their advantage? You have your own moveable cover, is the important thing.

Saying that it isn't useful because it doesn't harm people is pretty weak too. If I can't get near my opponent, or a flag, then killing isn't much use if it's a standoff when you want a way to change that. Also, people are forgetting you can pick up kits...smoke to get where you want to go, then shoot someone, or a teamate will, and steal their kit. You now probably have rockets to use for all those times rockets are more useful, and used smoke when smoke was more useful.

Radar smoke is much better so people that say the usual one is weak should probably try it to see if that changes their mind. Though you only have 1, you can resupply or switch kits...and it gives you that IDS which makes it more beneficial too.

Finally, radar may mean that people know roughly where you are, but not exactly, so it still helps against bullets a lot. Explosives get around that...but when there isn't radar assistance even they still need something to give a rough direction or they're nearly useless as well. Also I'll point out that in the open (where smoke creates the cover you desperately need) rockets are harder to aim because the enemy only have the floor to aim at, the accuracy for which is made much harder by the smoke. Height would solve that though. And grenades would take too long to explode, you can run through smoke in that time. If they aim on the other side of the smoke...who says that's the way you'll exit, assuming you even entered.

Though as I've said...smoke is no-where near as good as it should be, coloured smoke, thicker smoke, smoke that lasts longer...then it would be in more regular use.

**LordKelvin** · 08-17-2009, 06:05 PM

If the smoke in 2142 was even close to as dense and persistent as the smoke grenades in COD4, they would be useful. Otherwise, bring a Herzog if you are adamant about not bringing rockets. You can actually kill people with it as opposed to the smoke.

I would go so far as to say that the smoke is more useless than the Gruber stabilizer, and that's saying something.

**MrJengles** · 08-17-2009, 07:45 PM

People can get revived - killing people doesn't necessarily help you win. Or it might, but it might not help as much as taking a flag. If you can't fight your way to a flag effectively, smoke may, occasionally, help...

A second gun doesn't help if you can't kill them all anyway. The change of position allowed by the smoke may cause you to win with even just one gun...or as I said, pick up a new kit and have 2 guns in a position you previously couldn't reach.

**LordKelvin** · 08-17-2009, 11:00 PM

Killing people takes flags, hiding behind visual cover that only lasts a second or two and doesn't give you an added strength in combat does not. If you have the aim, the firepower, and the tactics, you can approach a flag in plain sight and still take it. Smoke only reduces your own situational awareness and utility while still leaving you vulnerable to every weapon.

There is no situation in 2142 where smoke is more useful than a different assault unlock. Smoke in this game is not thick enough and doesn't last even a fraction of the time necessary to achieve what smoke is supposed to do. It confers no cover, and fools no one. Your figure is shilloutted in the smoke making for a ready target.

Verdict: Smoke grenade = waste of time.

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