DocGuo

Now that we've all played this wonderful map....tactics must change, inter-squad coordination becomes a must, and the ferocity of battle grows ever greater. To the dismay of many the sacred APC can no longer dominate the battle anymore.

Now I pose a question to the general community...what is the key to winning this map....is it capturing crossroads first or try to break through enemy lines?

I believe the key is actually having a commander who actually sets objectives for each squad.
I've run around this map very blindly only to have failed to do anything that would have furthered my team forward. This map needs ... nay ... DEMANDS a competent commander.

Everyone should write down a full set of tactics that will result in the capturing of first flag for the attacking side. You can even name it just for the heck of it! Be creative! Name it after yourself if you choose to! If it works...you'll be proud to say..."hey it worked! we won!"

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Why "Doc"Guo? Because behind every good TG player there's a good doctor yelling "CLEAR!". There's also the fact that "Medic"Guo sounds kinda weird.

Transcendant

I'm not sure if I qualify as a competent commander, but what I usually try to do is sneak someone south alley at the start and try to take Square. Two situations usually result:

1. Enemy commander reacts, sending a squad or two to kill them. Unless our squad makes the cap, I then encourage a push from the rest towards Crossroads which (depending on enemy commander's response) will be at least slightly weakened.
2. The enemy commander doesn't react in time, so I encourage all of the team (squad can be sent back if crossroads opens up enough) to spawn at Square, with a squad humping it for Outpost and the rest doing the defense-offense line push that we all see on this map.

After this point, usually the battle becomes more stable and manageable, and winning is up to skills beyond rushing them.


Yesterday I faced a crushing (and my first) defeat. We took Crossroads early, but then we got absolutely stuck on Roadblock. Every time I sent from one SL to two full squads to the north, they were immediately countered before they could get past the rectangular courtyard. South and center were held by two unmoving enemy squads that never let up. What would you guys do in this situation?

Lorax74

If you're PAC, the bleed is off and you've got a ticket lead? Setup a kill zone and start growing your lead. Don't push on the next flag, make EU come to you.

If you're PAC, the bleed is off and you do not have a ticket lead? Still setup a kill zone and work on getting a ticket lead. If you have a squad that can push or break free, send a diversionary push on the opposite side as as they are engaged send the other squad. If they break through and begin to cap a flag, tell your team to prepare to spawn on the new flag. From there, it all depends on your team, the flags you have and how well everyone revives.

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TG-9th Lorax74

Razcsak

Normally I'd agree, Lorax, but if one squad insists on pushing out (and one will) you might as well throw the team at them wholesale.

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Thesleeper01

The importing thing is that there is no one thing, if there was then defending that one thing becomes very easy. If a squad breaks out and makes it to square or bac base then the enemy will either withdraw and stop them en mass usualy or they get through and cap a flag. Either way it is a success because the enemy is now not defending cross roads as much. The largest battle is takeing crossroads or breaking out so you will not have a bleed on and get slaughtered near your UBC every 15 seconds. I have been in no vehicle games where pac was locked down hard and could not do anything.

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DocGuo

Hold up....there's no bleed? yikes!!! I've been telling everybody to push forward and break through....huh....

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Why "Doc"Guo? Because behind every good TG player there's a good doctor yelling "CLEAR!". There's also the fact that "Medic"Guo sounds kinda weird.

Lorax74

PAC most certainly does bleed up until they neutralize a flag, so keep pushing!

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TG-9th Lorax74

Gronigo

I'm trying to revive this thread as I feel new offensive strategies are badly needed for this map in no vehicle mode.

I think we've all been through the situation where the EU forces are spread out at Crossroads and grenade spam the 3 corridors leading out of the PAC uncap base. Quite often, the PAC forces will quickly lose all their tickets without taking control of a single flag while the EU will barely lose 50 tickets.

I've been thinking about an offensive strategy, and I'd like to discuss it with you here and see if it has any merit. Please feel free to smash it if you think it's a dud. Look at the attached image to understand what I'm talking about.

Preamble:
First, there are 3 ways out the PAC base: a North corridor, a central corridor and a South corridor. After playing a few rounds in no vehicle mode, i have noticed that the South corridor is always the easiest to approach. The North corridor is easy for the EU to guard and when a PAC soldier slide down the slope, he will always lose control of his weapons for a short period of time therefore losing the initiative. The central corridor is the quickest way to the Checkpoint flag, but it's basically a meat grinder: a strong push here is always welcomed by non-stop flow of grenades. The South corridor offers no safe firing position for EU and PAC has the high ground on that long east-west street. I think this makes it the perfect place to start an assault on EU positions. I take for granted we have a communicative commander and 4 squads : Red 1 (full squad), Red 2 (full squad), Red 3 (full squad), Yellow (everyone else).

THE SOUTH FLANK PUSH AND HOLD
Basically, the game starts. All squad members hold spawn.

1. TAKING POSITION
- All SLs move to blue position. Squad members spawn in.
- Spread out and quickly push to the west. Red Squad leaders deploy beacon OR stay in green area.
- Squad Yellow stay in yellow zone to guard main force flank.
- All Red Squad members move into red position, secure it from South to North and spread out. EU should now realize that PAC are massing their forces in the red zone, they probably will concentrate their fire south.
- IF EU is not trying to outflank from the yellow zone, move the squad Yellow in the central corridor to flank the ennemy from the East, do not move to far West.

2. MOVE IN ROADBLOCK
- Squad Red 1 remove beacon, take control of building D. Setup on west side, lay suppressive fire on roadblock.
- Squad Red 2 remove beacon, move to take and hold Roadblock
- Squad Red 3 stay in position, try to protect red zone.

3. TAKE CROSSROADS
- Squad Red 1 move to East side of building D, provide fire support for other squads taking Crossroads
- Squad Red 3 move towards Crossroads always facing North
- Squad Yellow Move in to capture Crossroads.

4. TAKE DEFENSIVE POSITIONS
- Squad Red 1 move to west side of building B, defend Roadblock
- Other squads spread out around Roadblock and defend.

If you can just sit and hold, do it, let them bleed.
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So you have it. What do you think? Is it any good? Is it too much micro-management? Is it risky to expect all squads to perform as expected? Have you thought of an other plan? I'd love to hear about your ideas on this pretty difficult situation!

Attached Images

	fallofberlin.jpg (95.7 KB, 18 views)

Mech__Warrior

I found that it's hard having all squads doing what you want them to do but I never thought of that plan. I personally hate Berlin (vehicles and no vehicles) and go on offense, trying a recon run at the beginning and if that fails assist in the capture of Crossroads.

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YdoUwant2know

A very interesting proposal, but in my opinion, it would be very difficult to pull off.

First off, you cannot always guarantee that you will be able to get all of the squad leaders to follow orders. While yes it is a sever rule and all of the TG players will do their part, you cannot always count on non TG players to go along with the plan.

It becomes especial difficult when the plan gets as exacting as what you have. Then a plan becomes this specific, the individual skills of the player start to become a major factor. As commander, you would have to take some serious time to know your squads. Who is in them, who is leading and what they can handle are critical in deciding squad objectives.

Defenders always have the advantage. While your plan concentrates your forces effectively, it also allows the enemy the same advantage. The difference it that the enemy can remain stationary using cover to its fullest while your forces have to move across open space to advance. Even with cover and suppressive fire, your team is still at a disadvantage to the defenders who can just sit back and wait for you to rush in to your deaths.

Lastly, once you have Crossroads, what next? Siting back and defending could work, but contrary to what you have posted, the EU team does not have bleed effect them. Capturing Crossroads does remove the bleed from your team, but it does not transfer it to the other team. After PAC captures one or more flags, it is a strait up "who can kill the most people" fight. For the PAC, capturing Crossroads is insane, however, EU has it mush easier when trying to recapture it. That said, if you lose Crossroads flag, your team now is back to square one.

In my experience, 90% of PAC victories on this map come from breaking out past Crossroads. This means having a squad or two break through and pull some of the enemy forces with them, not necessarily the squad actually capturing a flag. This, however, is what creates the openings to get the flags you need.

The plan you have here could actually facilitate that rather nicely with a few adjustments. While your entire team in in the south keeping the enemy busy, send one or two squad leads (not squads, just the SLs) to the north for a nice sneaky recon run. They should have a much better chance of getting through with all the attention south. Especially if you provide additional cover with a well placed orbital strike. Then as their squad members fight and die in the south, they can hold spawn until their SL is past most of the enemy and come in.

Misdirection at its finest.

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Gronigo

I guess you are right, it is too complex. Still, I really feel there is something to do with that south corridor. Everytime I play this map as PAC on the TG server, it's the only place where the squad I'm in lasts more than 30 seconds. What you said about massing the forces South and sending 1 or 2 SLs sneaking North sounds very good to me. I'd love to see it put into action.

jazy2

Nice plan. I'd agree with Y though. It is fairly easy to get and hold that south corner but you have to take a flag or bleed will kill you. Perhaps, as Y suggests, leave the north wall totally from the start. Ignore it completely. ADD will set in, the defending squad for north wall will start to drift to the south. An orbital and cloaked run would help a breakthrough. Turn the defence, put them in uncomfortable territory, move the lines!!

I would add though that as the SL's doing the north push are about to go for it, their SM's who are south should rush the flag at crossroads. If they get it....good, if not they will be ready to spawn on the SL just as he makes it through. Either way a push directly on the flag will pull defenders into that area, again helping the recons running through.

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YdoUwant2know

The most effective strategy I have found on this map is to "rock the boat." Meaning, hit north, then south, then north, then south, and keep the pressure up until you can sneak a squad back. Generally, when a squad breaks through, the enemy commander will send his best and brightest to take them out. This takes them off the front line and gives the rest of your team the opening they need to get flags.

One of two things can happen at this point. The breakthrough squad can capture a flag, or they can get wiped out by another squad that moves back to get them. Ether way is good for you, if you take advantage of the situation.

If your squad is able to capture an advanced flag, you should have EVERYONE on your team should spawn there. Holding that flag and keeping bleed off is your number one concern. A close second would be getting another flag.

If your breakthrough squad is killed by an enemy squad that pulled back, hit Crossroads with everything you got. Nine times out of ten, when EU pulls a squad back to defend, it will will leave them short handed on the front lines. Drop an orbital for cover and have your squads rush the flag.

This tactic is not limited to Crossroads. When commanding, I am always looking to take advantage of any opening the enemy gives us. The easiest one to spot is tunnel vision. If all of your enemies are on one side, hit the other. If they all fall back, push into the hole they left. Make them pay for not covering all sides equally.

On the flip side of that, know you limits. As I said before, defenders have the advantage, if you know you cannot take a flag, (assuming bleed if off at this point) sit back let the enemy come to you and get the easy kill. But always keep an eye out for an opening. When you see one pounce.

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Lyramion

Sadly I think Gronigos Plan is much too simple. The enemy team can too easily see what is going on. Everyone will be bunched up and the PAC team will easily go down due to Rocket and Nade spam.


To really rock Crossroad you need to make the mind of the defenders spin around in a circle.

My idea of a plan would be this:

Squad 1: All reacon all cloak. All rush over crossroad. This will not be the real attack however. It is merely a diversion maneuver. If someone can get thru to cap something is merely a bonus.

Squad 2: At the SAME time as Squad 1 they start their approach from the south. They will move in south and cover the South spawnpoints. Depending on the situation they can try to reach the ladder or try to move closer to the building.

Squad 3: Again at the SAME time they should make an attempt over the North Snowwall. Depending on the situation they can try to push North and make a run for it or cover the north spawnpoints and close in to the flag.

Squad 4: All while this HUGH mess happens and the EU team will be chasing single cloaked recons while reporting a push south and north, Squad 4s SL will Ghost close to Crossroad flag and spawnbomb his members right onto it.



Personally I give this plan a really good chance to succeed. The defending team would have to split up their forces equally to counter it which most likely won´t happen due to all the cloaked Recon confusion. My guess is 2 of the Squads will get horribly crushed while either the Recon Squad or Squad 4 caps a flag.

It´s only really really hard to pull off on a normal Pubday. On a IHS Wednesday maybe.

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Gronigo

I reckon my plan is not so good after all. Still, I almost never see PAC succeed on this map when the attacking force is evenly spread out on all 3 passages. Not against well positioned EU forces anyway. But then, maybe I'm making this assesment based on too few matches.