LordKelvin

I dedicated an entire afternoon to reading every post in those threads. My conclusion: If you want to play as a marksman, you either have to be God, Guardian, or make your own squad. The sad part is, few SL's will let you prove your worth. But I don't really mind. I love my Baur just as much as my Zeller. (In fact, the Baur is pretty much a weaker sniper rifle with the ability to be used on fully automatic... a nice plus )

Once that Mac patch comes out... I will be back on the TG server, robotically reviving the downed members of my team. Because that's what friends do. Personally, I'd love to run around with my shiny Ganz (but I always get beat out for the support role, since everybody is like "who the f are you") or my Zeller... I've even gotten grief from one SL once for carrying a Baur. He literally told me I had to bring the Voss or get kicked. I finally explained to him that I had never unlocked it. My 10 or so kills with the Voss? All that one round. And let me tell you... I HATE that gun. With a passion.

When I snipe, these are the things going through my head:
1. Where can I stand that has a flanking position on the enemy?
2. Where can I harry the foe most?
3. Where can I ensure that I am not wasting my ammo on idiots who will be revived before I can draw the bead on my next shot?
4. How can I distract, confuse, and demoralize the enemy?
5. How can I defend this flag, chokepoint, etc?

The details are revealed in the guide above. I have yet to try out Prom's suggestions (been very busy lately) but the vast majority of it I think is very helpful. I apologize for my rambling. I have just one request: When I ask to be a sniper on a map that is open enough for it (i.e. almost every single one except Camp G.) please at least give me a chance. Or if not, let me carry my pretty Ganz. On pubby servers, I can single-handedly wipe five-six guys in medium range before I die using rifle, pistol, and knife... adjusted for TG, that probably means more like 2-3... but thats about as good as your average assault. If there's any decent medic along, I'll be back up, and knocking helmets in no time.

I find that marksmen are underappreciated... not for lack of trying though. I won't try and argue the point... it has been discussed so much that I'm sure most of the older members want to hurl... Please take the chance and let me, or any other newer guy show their skill. If I'm really not helping, I'll gladly go medic. How is anyone to discover talent if it is squashed?

I'll finish by saying that IMHO, the Zeller should be an instant, un-revivable kill if its a headshot or torso shot. Two shots to the extremities. But, apparently, EA is oblivious to its own game mechanics. You know what, screw this, I'll just go sit in a Rorsch and snipe people from there. Next time I get on the TG server, I will make a RORSCH squad. Fear me.

If anyone is still reading at this point in my post, you are to be commended. I don't think I made a cohesive argument. But I had to get my feelings on the issue out there. And expect the guide to be updated soon. Kelvin out.

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pred011586

It's not so much that SLs won't give snipers a chance to prove their worth. I know first hand that a good sniper can be a very strong factor. The problem is, that defib you're sacrificing can easily counter balance the advantage. You become faced with a choice, remove some of their tickets or save some of yours. Even the best snipers can't kill the medics coming in for revives all the time, but even the worst medics can revive a dead body most of the time. Plus as you said, the Baur is pretty close to a sniper rifle, and you get to carry rockets.

When you get back on TG, if you join my squad on a map that you think is well suited for sniping, you're more than welcome to plead your case to me. I'll give you that oppurtunity outside of specific situations (intial rushes usually entail all medics for revives). Just understand that if the benefits of a sniper get outweighed by the lack of another kit, I'll more than likely ask you to change kits.

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[T-BAGZ]Pred011586

Zhohar

If the conversation is already turning that way, I'll throw in my two cents:
I like Recons in my squad when defending flags that have a good likelyhood of being taken over. I'll have them APM/RDX the flag and stay alive. That can make the difference between holding and losing a flag.
Just for vanilla sniping? As fun as it is, like pred mentioned, a defib outweighs a sniper rifle 10 to 1.

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Razcsak

Re: rocket-dodging: if your front is clear of obstacles, sprint forward. If you, per normal, are against a wall, turn around and sprint back. Most decent rocketeers will provide lateral spread as will the firing deviation on the rockets themselves. What they'll forget to do is: while strafing and altering their aim, click back to launch at least one rocket further back. Dodging rockets is exactly opposite to dodging bullets.

edit: Snipers in my squad are growing on me, but only on armor maps. Any of the infantry-dominant maps are just too hectic and close to allow any meaningful sniping. I have nothing against the ability of snipers to drop people, they just don't have the ability to keep someone on the ground or keep teammates up that medics do. The demo recon is more applicable on infantry maps and if someone asks, I think I'd let them run as one. On a vehicle map, a sniper can kill engineers and actually keep them down. For flag assault, they're better at popping people out of Rorsches than medics (though medics should still be laying rockets on the gun) and can, in a very, very tight pinch, be useful against armor. However, their lack of defib and healthbox still limits their use to one/squad, in my opinion.

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ionpig-A

Now you're talking!

Rorsch == DOOM.

Even folks like Aruncado and R.Stark can't revive folks from that, and those guys are like Dr. Frankenstein with the defib paddles!

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Memor Depopulor Pro Vos Exuro

Nairb101

*note* This is my first post, so I will try to make it a good one.

I have been playing bf2142 for over a year now, and dedicated most of my time too two classes: Assault and Recon. Both are very different, and have different advantages. from what I have seen, a single sniper/recon unit CAN and HAS turned the tide of the battles. Why? Because a single recon unit, correctly equipped, is so damned versatile that it can survive on the battle field for long periods of time and adapt on the spot to different situations. I believe that a sniper in a squad is a valuable asset in most situations, and here is why:


1.) Recon/sniping players have extremely high situational awareness. For example, lets look at the map Suez Canal.
A squad is defending a command point, in the middle of the map. They can only react to what they see and suspect. With all of their cover taking up their vision, their situational awareness is LOW. The average squad member individual awareness is small. When the squad deploys radars, and collectively spot, their SA (situational awareness) increases to about AVERAGE. They can see where people are, but more likely than not they cannot see the general idea of what is happening. This is where the Recon/sniping unit can come into play. Lets place this unit 75~150m outside of the outpost near a rock on a somewhat high spot. The sniper CAN see the larger picture, and communicate to the squad large enemy movements (such as flanks), incoming vehicles, and general locations. So instead of the squad leader rushing a corner to flank and getting owned by a tank, he know the tank is there and moves the other way. On open maps the sniper acts as a "commander 2.0", giving the squad their own little micro UAV. Since the entire squads SA is increased due to the one unit, they are less likely to die.

Now the typical argument is that a squad is better off with 1 medic preventing ticket loss and killing rather than a sniper, since that 1 ticket loss is real. However, this is a weak argument because the ticket loss prevented by a recon/sniper is not a quantifiable number, but a general concept.



2.) Snipers can cause a gradual and constant annoyance and ticket loss. Once again lets look at a large, open map.

During the middle of a assault, things are quite hectic. explosions going on everywhere, revives happening, pod drops, the general chaos. No one cares to notice the small little "pops", at least in the beginning. However, a properly positioned sniper can do several things during this battle: Weaken, distract, deny, and kill.

First, a sniper can weaken a enemy with a chest shot. Sure, it isn't a ticket loss, or even a kill. But it is a time suck. It takes time for that unit to heal, time when it isn't fighting, or is stuck near a med-crate. Additionally, that enemy is now more vulnerable to explosives. This has a small but in-refutable impact on the battlefield.

Second, a sniper can distract. Most chaotic fights are close range. When a sniper pegs a nearby enemy with a headshot, that squad takes notice. They might send a person or two to attack the sniper. This does two things. It first removes combats from the close battle, helping to make it once sided. Second, more likely than not in order to combat the sniper, squad members will have to break cover at some point, exposing them to fire from the close range battle.

Third, a sniper can Deny. Deny the enemy cover. A sniper who is position correctly will be able to hit targets that their squad members cannot even see. depending on the sniper's angle, it can actually prevent the use of certain areas of cover by having a field of fire over them, killing combatants in these areas. eventually, they learn and dont go there anymore, or start trying to dodge the sniper fire.

Fourth, a sniper can Kill. This is not the main purpose of a sniper by a long shot (haha), but it still is very important. The role of a sniper killing someone is very different than the role of a assault medic. In the assault medics mind, when it kills something it ticks off a mark, with the goal of killing every single thing within 50m. A sniper doesn't kill to kill, it kills to enable. Enable the squad to move up, or ignore parts of the battle. When a support unit sets up cover, and lays down, it can be difficult to kill this from a typical squad standpoint. However, a sniper has the accuracy to kill the support unit or destroy the shield in one shot. The sniper also has the ability to kill the squad leaders, making medics take time to heal him.


this is a short list of things why i think they are important, but i will now go over some more precise points about recon, most notably those brought up in this topic.

"But don't ever forget that if you can see them, they can see you. I find it is usually a lot safer to set your sights on one area and be patient, rather than try to cover the entire battlefield."

-Somewhat correct. If you can see them, they might not be able to see you due to the way the game engine works when you zoom in past certain distances. The best bet is to focus in the area (~140 degree field) where your squad is placed or where a fight is happening. no activity? move. Also, your not a sniper to play it safe. your goal is to help people. If you have to blow your cover to save 2-3 people, you do it.


"I would caution against holding fire on moving targets. Even a semi-intelligent target is going to move between cover. If you are waiting for him to stop, you aren't going to see where he stops."

-I agree. Movable targets are 100% fair game.


"I think by very definition you have just contradicted "Sniper". How can you be concealed if you are moving around like your Preparation H just wore off? I agree that you should not sit in the same spot all day, but the idea is to never be seen, not try and dodge bullets."

-*facepalms* If your not moving around as a sniper/recon, your doing your job wrong (most of the time). You can easily move around like your preparation H wore off and not be seen. by placing cover between you and your enemy, walking on the backside of hills, and crawling/crouching, you can definitely move WITHOUT camo and not be seen. While doding bullets is never ideal, his technique of jump/prone is still extremely viable. With a sniper, a single bullet is enough to make someone run for cover.


"The Gruber is a crutch, and not a very good one. It takes a fraction of a second to function, and it only lasts for a second or two. I believe the learning curve for the regular rifle sway and the Gruber are almost identical. I would suggest that if you are going to have to learn one or the other, you should learn the one that frees up an inventory slot."

-The Gruber, from what i have seen with other snipers, is largely opinion. In my view, it helps alot when you are attempting to a take a target moving horizontally in your view. It removes on axis that you have to control, leaving only the important one. However your point is also very good about the extra slot, and I think you cant go wrong with it or without it.


"Identifying a medic in a group of targets will cost you valuable seconds. Instead, find the one with the Otus and drop a can of ass-whip on his head. Now you have one kill and 5 more lining up to revive him. You can also go for the easy re-kill by tagging him repeatedly after revives."

-Agreed. Prioritizing targets is a must, and squad leaders or entrenched machine guns are prime targets.



Overall, the sniper is a very very adaptable unit. however, go outside to a situation it CAN'T adapt to (aka extreme close range), and your are in trouble. because of this a sniper unit deployed i a squad should be based completely on the map/current battle. I would say more and correct some grammatical errors, but it is 4:00AM here (yikes!) and I need to go bed. I will probably update this tomorrow/today.

SharinganTH1422

This thread has reminded me...where did Guardian go...?

__________________
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

Morkrash

First off, I would also like to state that this is my first post here (obviously). I want to congratulate
Nairb101 for making such a thoughtful post, because, as I see it, good sniper and recon players on TG servers are unfortunately few and far between. In this post I will only address snipers, but this certainly is not meant to imply that recon players are useless. Please allow me to supplement what Nairb has noted (which appears in quotation marks):

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"Recon/sniping players have extremely high situational awareness. For example, lets look at the map Suez Canal.
A squad is defending a command point, in the middle of the map. They can only react to what they see and suspect. With all of their cover taking up their vision, their situational awareness is LOW. The average squad member individual awareness is small. When the squad deploys radars, and collectively spot, their SA (situational awareness) increases to about AVERAGE. They can see where people are, but more likely than not they cannot see the general idea of what is happening. This is where the Recon/sniping unit can come into play. Lets place this unit 75~150m outside of the outpost near a rock on a somewhat high spot. The sniper CAN see the larger picture, and communicate to the squad large enemy movements (such as flanks), incoming vehicles, and general locations. So instead of the squad leader rushing a corner to flank and getting owned by a tank, he know the tank is there and moves the other way. On open maps the sniper acts as a "commander 2.0", giving the squad their own little micro UAV. Since the entire squads SA is increased due to the one unit, they are less likely to die.

Now the typical argument is that a squad is better off with 1 medic preventing ticket loss and killing rather than a sniper, since that 1 ticket loss is real. However, this is a weak argument because the ticket loss prevented by a recon/sniper is not a quantifiable number, but a general concept."

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Totally agree with this point. The kit is called Reconnaissance for a reason.

One of the pretty commonly held opinions that I’ve observed in this post is that a sniper in X squad will “lag behind” and also result in one less medic when necessary. IMO, this is true, but only under the assumption that a squad is a) constantly moving, and b) the members are all within range of healing/resing each other in the first place. There ARE and SHOULD be squad leaders whose main priority is to defend areas of interest rather than constantly advancing. In this case, snipers can shine, for reasons which will be outlined in the last section. Not only are the NetBat benefits substantial from a recon (Otus and -- I believe -- the NetBat delay), but even simple verbal communication can save allies. This especially applies to far-away targets - most people probably won`t want to zoom out all the way on their minimap or check their map when there are hostiles incoming. For this reason, VOIP and other forms of communication (I.e. spotting) is a must for recons, something which is very much lacking.

However, to be fair, the effectiveness of a sniper in this respect largely depends on the type of map. If you are playing on smaller, more compartmentalized maps like Gibraltar or Cerbere, the situational awareness of the recon player will probably be replaced in effectiveness by infantry scanners, etc. Oh, not to mention the sniper’s field of view will be severely restricted, due to both the number of physical barriers and fog of war. In this case, though, recon players with the Lambert can be a staple.

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1)
"Snipers can cause a gradual and constant annoyance and ticket loss. Once again lets look at a large, open map.

During the middle of a assault, things are quite hectic. explosions going on everywhere, revives happening, pod drops, the general chaos. No one cares to notice the small little "pops", at least in the beginning. However, a properly positioned sniper can do several things during this battle: Weaken, distract, deny, and kill.

First, a sniper can weaken a enemy with a chest shot. Sure, it isn't a ticket loss, or even a kill. But it is a time suck. It takes time for that unit to heal, time when it isn't fighting, or is stuck near a med-crate. Additionally, that enemy is now more vulnerable to explosives. This has a small but in-refutable impact on the battlefield."

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So many people have not realized the potential of this tactic. It is for this very reason that the Zeller is sometimes more effective than the stock rifles on the battlefield, even if it gives your location away more often. I think a lot of the contempt held for many snipers on these boards stems from the fact that they will often try to pursue relatively useless kills instead of truly helping their team out. For instance, it would be relatively pointless to kill an enemy in close proximity to several other medics, but wounding several of them would slow them considerably; healing from a Zeller’s bullet takes quite a bit longer than the stock rifles, and, in this case, healing would either consist of holding out one’s own medical kit (during which a weapon is disabled) or staying near one on the ground, during which the enemy’s movement would considerably restricted. After all, the ticket loss results only from permanently killing someone, so, if they are res’ed in a safe area, this is a waste of a shot unless the other medics can also be neutralized. Thus, snipers should, if possible, engage enemies approaching a group of their (the snipers`) allies - not only will their shots have immediate contributions to their team, but the team usually will create a safe “buffer zone” for the sniper. Nairb echoes these sentiments by breaking down the contributions of a sniper during battle under the following tactics of distraction, denial, and killing.

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2)
"Second, a sniper can distract. Most chaotic fights are close range. When a sniper pegs a nearby enemy with a headshot, that squad takes notice. They might send a person or two to attack the sniper. This does two things. It first removes combats from the close battle, helping to make it once sided. Second, more likely than not in order to combat the sniper, squad members will have to break cover at some point, exposing them to fire from the close range battle."

I think this is probably your weakest point, but it’s not necessarily a bad one. I absolutely hate being attacked with a volley of 10 rockets, or having an orbital strike launched at my position (which actually DID happen to me during a round in Belgrade - can you believe it?). On second thought, that OS really did drain the resources of my enemy! I will have to think about this for a bit longer.. The paranoia effect is quite satisfying, though J.

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3)
"Third, a sniper can Deny. Deny the enemy cover. A sniper who is position correctly will be able to hit targets that their squad members cannot even see. depending on the sniper's angle, it can actually prevent the use of certain areas of cover by having a field of fire over them, killing combatants in these areas. eventually, they learn and dont go there anymore, or start trying to dodge the sniper fire."

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YES! Absolutely, invaluably, invariably true. This goes way up there as one of the greatest contributions of a sniper, and probably doesn’t need any more explanation since it’s hopefully so painfully obvious.

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4)

"Fourth, a sniper can Kill. This is not the main purpose of a sniper by a long shot (haha), but it still is very important. The role of a sniper killing someone is very different than the role of a assault medic. In the assault medics mind, when it kills something it ticks off a mark, with the goal of killing every single thing within 50m. A sniper doesn't kill to kill, it kills to enable. Enable the squad to move up, or ignore parts of the battle. When a support unit sets up cover, and lays down, it can be difficult to kill this from a typical squad standpoint. However, a sniper has the accuracy to kill the support unit or destroy the shield in one shot. The sniper also has the ability to kill the squad leaders, making medics take time to heal him."

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Thank you!

Like real-life snipers, BF2142 snipers should acquire high-value targets. This is obviously NOT limited to squad leaders, and includes:

- Sentry guns
- Motion mines/EMP mines/RDX/APMs (although they are notoriously difficult to hit from far) with the Zeller
- Spawn beacons
- People in gun enplacements (non-revivable)
- People using the turrets in jeeps and people driving them. Also, people using air transport guns.
- Support machine gun users, people who launch rockets, or virtually any other relatively stationary targets than can inflict massive amounts of damage while unimpeded. Other examples of this include stupid engineers repairing their vehicles, stupid snipers who go prone in the worst places, and SAAW users.

This tactic goes well with your third point: after killing players in the areas under your control, they will be more discouraged to occupy them (if they aren’t dead, that is J ).

Another thing that I would like to add is that talented snipers can have an obscenely high kill:death ratio. I remember playing on one of your Verdun (conquest) maps this week, and my kill:death ratio was 27:0, with no revives. Granted, quite a few of those whom I had sniped were res’ed by other medics, not measurably contributing to a ticket lead on our side, but they were pinned down for quite a while, unable to help their teammates. In fact, in some cases I was able to kill both the initial target AND the medic trying to revive their ally.

As an aside, I would like to tell commanders that IF A DECENT PLAYER USING A SNIPER/SAAW/ANY OTHER SOLO WEAPON REQUESTS A SUPPLY DROP, PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GIVE IT TO THEM. Squads, if properly manned, can be self-sufficient in terms of supplies (or simply die too fast for the ammo bonus from the supply box to provide any benefit > ). A notable exception is the reservation of supply drops for vehicles, but even they can be repaired at the right times if an engineer is inside or nearby.

Anyways, one of my main points is that the contribution of a good sniper in a preventative role is immeasurable and often times the in-game points are a poor representation of it because they are not consistent with the potential damage neutralized by a sniper. As Nairb quite astutely noted, ``the ticket loss prevented by a recon/sniper is not a quantifiable number, but a general concept``. For instance, taking out an anti-ground or AA Rorsch (or mines!) from far distances can save more than a handful of players in the targeted vehicles. This applies to all of the other high-value targets outlined above, too. Similarly, the effect of a non-sniper recon taking out enemy assets or a walker can be an immense boon to his or her team even though it can’t really be quantified.

In order to drill this into the minds of disbelievers, allow me to recount one more anecdote that occurred on a TG server. I was just playing on Wake Island on EU a few days ago when I decided to form a team whose sole purpose was to make sure that the titan’s Core was not taken by the enemy. Even though conflicts were pretty sparse, we prevented the permanent control of the Core by our opponents. As you all probably know, the ticket bleed of the Core, if kept by PAC, is quite large for the EU, not to mention that it is a staging area to pretty much every other location on the map due to its central placement. In the end, my squad’s score was about half that of the best squad on our team, but I felt that our contribution was almost equally as great.

I`m not sure if you guys agree with what I have to say, but I definitely think that it`s worth considering, at the very least. From what I`ve seen, your server has been plagued by many snipers who are either tactically or skilfully lacking, and I`m assuming that they are largely responsible for your distrust in their effectiveness on the field. Having said that, I completely acknowledge that the role of a sniper is situational and that his or her role in a squad may not be worth it at times. Thus, I respectfully request that your community acknowledge the contributions of ``solo`` snipers operating in squads in which they are the only members (given, of course, that they are fulfilling their role effectively). The reason for this probably odd request is that I`ve often found it necessary to lock my own squad in order to prevent people from spawning in on me and therefore giving away my position completely. While this locking is against TG rules, I`ve observed that it`s been done in regards to vehicle squads and asset destruction, highlighting quite a bit of hypocrisy, since a sniper is an equally specialized role. Of course, I`m guessing certain criteria requirements would have to be met, like a headset and a relative level of skill.

If you have chosen to skip my request completely, at least please chew on the last thing that I have to say. What Nairb and I have outlined above (hopefully Nairb will agree, but I eagerly await a response from you) is not a specific guide to becoming a better sniper, but rather the very, very rough guidelines to becoming a better sniper with a play mentality that is better suited to the one found in a TG environment. I believe that only once the basic guidelines of sniping are ascertained can discussions on actual use of equipment, etc. begin (for instance, don`t ANY of you guys know how to use the Ghost? :P). Ooh, and what better people are suited to experiment with this role than the disciplined and dedicated TG members that you, yourselves, are (I mean that without any tinge of sarcasm)? J

Thank you for your attention. I eagerly await any responses in order to continue this discussion.

YdoUwant2know

Nairb101 & Morkrash

First off welcome to TG!! Glad you could join us.

Second, I agree. Recon kits are vastly underused on TG servers. The reason behind it is that a majority of recon players do not play the kit correctly. As you have said, A good recon player can be a major asset on the right map.

I think both of you should take a look at this thread in the general discussion area that was started by one of the few people I know that can play Recon right.

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...nst-recon.html

Enjoy, and again, welcome to both of you.

Bomber

In response to this, CO's reserve supply boxes for armor because if an engie gets out and repairs, it is prime targeting for an emp orbital, especially on low vehicle maps such as fall of berlin, camp gibraltar, belgrade, cerbere if attacking, pretty much any map except maps that has armor spawning at every spawn point or titan, but then tickets don't matter in titan, and armor control is better than infantry control on keeping/taking a silo. The only time you could argue this is no vehicle maps which is understandable and vehicle heavy maps which I would still reserve for armor.

If I'm getting this correctly, the role of a sniper is to support through various ways thus supporting people in a win. Snipers aren't game-winning or stay back and use apm rdx enough, they might be game-saving occasionally but the people in the trenches who take flags, who defend flags, who keep armor alive are the people who win.

The spotting idea of the sniper. It seems to me most snipers don't have mics so I don't know about this one. "Spotting people" can be supplanted with more avid commanders but of course in the case of no commander thats good on bigger maps with multiple paths.

KDR, you must realize many people are in it to win, not to have a good KDR. I would much rather die as an eingeneer to get rid of armor or die saving the squad leader than live another day and I think many people have the same mindset.

Too many times have I seen a person start a snipers squad...when they're attacking. An organized sniper squad, maybe with say one support two medics, I can see that on a defending map, but no, you just get the everyone sniper deal going. Seeing that squad, seeing the other team outnumber you by six now because you know that squad will not try to be moving, it gives me nightmares.

I hate seeing people get revived, feeling essentially useless, I do whatever I can to make sure its a ticket loss while snipers are helpless unless they're extremely nice shot and can shoot a moving, diving medic.

Final note, I love the idea of a moving, helping the squad sniper. I used one the other night just for intel from the otis on attacking people while defending coms, it helped. If some people think that being a sniper is the best way they can help the team, go ahead, just be ready to switch up kits to adapt

__________________
|TG-55| Infantry Division

Uranium - 235

Snipers are emos who think they're cool loners and have pictures of wolves in their sig. True story.



More seriously though, most people try to argue that the scouting benefits are worth it. I still stand by what someone said in the LAST Recon thread - that a soldier who is in the thick of it is going to have far better situational awareness than a complacent sniper who IS NOT in danger. Furthermore, the soldier in battle will be identifying targets that are important to them, since they'll be AROUND them - not the enemy squad halfway across the map going for another flag.

Simply, I've never heard a single vaguely convincing argument supporting this 'scouting' thing. The view distance in 2142 is depressingly short, and there's so much intel available via PDS IDS SatScan UAV etc. it's almost like 'who the hell cares?' I've heard similar things said in other games that feature cloaking / sniping / backstabbing. People who support that playstyle, I think, like to dramatically exaggerate their job, but I suspect if you watched their gameplay, you'd not be able to tell if THEY even knew what their job was. I'm 100% convinced all this 'Enemy At The Gates' BS is just a guise so the recon players don't sound like the selfish worthless players that they really are. Don't take it personally, it's not YOU, it's your weapon. Sniper rifles are put in so that the loner players can do something (and the only thing they care about are their kills), and sniper rifles are ultimately worthless in an objective-based game.

In other games, I've heard many similar arguments. Some people really like to beat the drum that the job of the 'recon' is to 'eliminate priority targets'. Meaning that us, the dumb grunts, just go in and butt heads with random nobodies, while the 'recon' in that particular game is somehow going to slip in, backstab the most important guy, and escape unharmed. In reality? That NEVER HAPPENS. Games are too fast paced for that ****, or it's not even important enough to bother with.

I've really become quite tired of hearing how snipers build themselves up to do a completely underwhelming job in every game. The fact is, any clod can spot targets, any clod can shoot the important guy. Sniper rifles are put into games simply because people assume it's a staple of FPS. Did Rainbow Six REALLY need a sniper rifle, when the levels are physically smaller than my house? No, it's just in there because if it didn't, someone would cry. The only game where 'priority target elimination' and spotting could play a big part would be an extremely slow-paced game. The only game I've seen that ever came close to this was Planetside. Ironically, the only thing sniper rifles could kill in one shot were Infiltrator and the crappy default spawn armors.

I'm going to put the odds of a good recon doing good scouting at 'statistically irrelevant'. The other veterans around here have one or two stories about a good recon player, but this is ONE guy out of hundreds / thousands of games. It's not worth even arguing about.

Final thoughts:
Recon's purpose in this game can be achieved without any of the sniper rifles. As far as I'm concerned, any time you're playing Recon, you should have the Lambert and be carrying something that explodes. However, if you're a really good marksman.... then pick up a Baur or a Krylov, put it in single shot, and learn to play the damn game.

(The surgeon general recommends 2 servings of Uranium's Rage a day)

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LordKelvin

^^ I think this is why recon/sniper players complain. But guys, keep in mind that this is Uranium's opinion, not the opinion of TG as a whole. So don't get dragged down by useless negativity.

There's a simple rule of thumb to follow when playing on TG: If you can't see that you are making a difference, you should change what you are doing. This applies to everyone, not just snipers. Practice, practice, practice your sniping skills elsewhere, then come back and see if it helped. If it's not helping, maybe it's time you picked up that trusty assault rifle.

I've made it a policy to be decent at every kit, so while I claim my specialty to be the recon kit, and sniping in particular, I'm also pretty good at assault, support, and engineer. Explore the possibilities available to you. Hard-headed arguments on each side of this endless argument do nothing. Let them do whatever they wish. And hopefully, those cocky snipers will get rocketed halfway across the map, and Uranium will get nailed in the head from 300m away, and everyone's happy.

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Morkrash

(In response to Uranium - 235)

No offense, but did you even read my post entirely? From what I can tell, your argument seems to be that "Recon's purpose in this game can be achieved without any of the sniper rifles" because their spotting is irrelevant and elimination of high priority targets can be done by anyone else, anytime. Wait..what?

First off, I'd like to highlight the fact that the majority of your argument hinges on the ineffectiveness of scouting. Sure, scouting can be pretty useless at times, but what are the chances that all forms of spotting will be active in all areas, all the time? A well-positioned sniper can see very far in contrast to all of these detection methods (save Sat-track) - a UAV, one of the best detection devices, has a diameter of 100m or so. A sniper can see upwards of 300m, in all directions, and even in the 400m ranges on maps like Wake Island.

Whether you believe scouting is useless or not, you're missing the larger point of the role of a sniper, which was outlined in the second half of my post. I find what you say about any "clod" being able to shoot "the important guy" highly questionable. Would you really rather use a Baur at far distances than a sniper rifle? I find this statement absolutely ridiculous. I'm nearly in the top 500 with both weapons, and I can still give you a big, resounding NO as my answer. Seriously, all I have to say to you is to reread the second part of my post. How can you not find any of those actions beneficial? Virtually the whole effectiveness of a sniper is dictated by his/her placement in the field. Just because you probably haven't seen any half-good snipers does not give you the right to condemn the entire class.

Oh, one more thing: the reason why snipers excel at eliminating "priority targets" is because they can do see with relative impunity. Be my guest and rush a Ganz user head-on next time and let me know how that turns out. Or, better yet, turn a blind corner only to get totally wtfpwned by a group that could've been whittled down by a sniper. The fact is, snipers are not useless, there are just many, MANY stupid snipers around who think they're so leet that all they care about is their kills and feeling an inflated sense of importance. What this discussion basically boils down to is this: there is a time and a place for every kit item to be used in BF2142 - using a kit like assault to compensate for all of the abilities of a good sniper or even a recon is a major mistake that I see TG players make all the time. If you don't personally care about sniping, that's fine with me; I'll be sure to take advantage of the lack of counter-snipers the next time that I join one of your games.

PS: Is your in-game name Uranium-235? If so.. *laughs*..