Zhohar

What is the hardest flag to take in BF2142? Any maps, any mode, any type of attack and defense goes here. Post your choice but please make sure you back it up with reasoning and details -- what kind of a squad is attacking and who is defending, is there armor involved, what gives the defenders an advantage?

You're also free to shoot down others' posts by providing a successful counter-strategy against the defenders - be sure to note how it negates the defenders' innate advantage, if any.

Have at it.

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BigMcLarge

Crossroads as PAC on Fall of Berlin. Most games, the entire EU team starts at Crossroads, because they know if they can keep you from getting through, you're screwed! There's basically only three avenues of attack for the PAC, straight up the road, around to the right and over the hill, or try to sneak off to alley down the left side. But all avenues are almost always completely covered by motion mines, APM mines, grenades, rockets, pilums, etc., etc., etc.. There's no true way where you can sneak around the choke points like on most maps. You have to head straight into the enemy ranks to either get to the ladder over on the left side or to the walkway around the building on the right. If you can luck out and grenade and rocket enough of the EU on one side, you can eventually break through and take a back flag, which of course should lighten the defenses on crossroads enough to cap it.

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Adaxa

Yeah, Crossroads is almost impossible to breakthrough as PAC. The only thing that works, as I've found when EU really defends that flag is for the SL to recon past it and take square or Roadblock.

I might have said Toll Station and Harbor, but I believe that Toll isn't that hard to take if you use the catwalks or go straight up the left driveway, and up the middle.

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Icehawk217

The first flag on Minsk, no vehicles.

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Anospa

Toll is definitely one of the hardest, but it is far from necessary to try and take.

Crossroads on Berlin, as others have said, is definitely a challenge nearly every time.

Many of the flags on Shingle are easy to take, but can be very hard to hold. Trenches in particular, as it can be spammed very easily from many other flags.

Armor maps with dead zones in between flags, particularly Verdun, usually have notoriously hard flags to take.

The first flag on the eastern side of Suez (can't remember the name!) is usually a very hard flag to assault, as you're coming out of the UCB very slowly up a hill with many hiding spots for engineers. Gunship support is hard to come by as the AAA turret on this flag is placed in a very good position, and SAAWs are constantly flying on this map.

Heh, oh, and Minsk.

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Mech__Warrior

Although we never play it, I think the first three flags of Minsk are hardest to assault. They have bunkers and trenches and look like they could easily be defended by 3 people.

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Bomber

For crossroads, theres a window where it is easy to take. Your armor arrives while theirs is still traveling and the problem comes where people don't take that advantage. Also, the flag range is huge and some people don't realize that

I think Oil Station is pretty hard to take because there are no easy points of entry through infantry because they have a vast expanse of land they must travel through and vehicles die quickly to eingie's and emp

I think church on cerbere is the holy grail of all death traps, the hill above it and the fact south town is above it has people getting rocketed on respawn

Harbor, believe it or not, should be hard to take even though it isn't on TG because the flag range is small and one or two grenades can take out several several people. The southern building can easily rocket the flag and the rorsch is in pretty good position to annoy the walker and kill any buggy rushes. It seems easy because people chase kills and get out of position to grenade the flag and are not aware the flag is going down.

For toll, people only think it is hard because they remember the deadlocks. Any flag is near impossible to take when the whole team is defending it. However, if one squad, at the beginning lets say, defends toll with two engies and a support, that is an assault squad versus a half engie squad and it should be easy to take. I realize the buildings on the east and west, if assault are up there shooting rockets, it gets near impossible but that rarely happens early game. And, say a assault squad v assault squad, the defenders will win. Again, there is a small window where the walker comes up making it impossible.

South town is defensible because people can only come up through narrow entrances that can easily be grenaded. One squad, say 2 support with ids on the main and west road along with four assault can defend against a whole team because of the right clicking power of grenades.

LordKelvin

I've only played 5 rounds or so on Operation Shingle, and that middle flag with the five levels or whatever in the building is the most peevishly frustrating flag ever. It's the biggest meatgrinder I've ever been in, barring the corridor stalemates at Toll Station on Camp G. There's way too many levels and stairs and blind corners... I hesitate to even enter past the first level.

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Zhohar

Wouldn't it be interesting to run a 32-player TG Scrim on Camp Gibraltar? It has the potential to turn into one of the most interesting matches to date.

Imagine the entire PAC team staying no further than 5 meters NE of Harbour flag once they cap it. How confusing would it to be on EU when they see a vast expanse of empty space outside of Toll Station. No grenades to throw, no rockets to launch, no RDX to be thrown over the walls. A true "wtf" moment if I ever saw one.

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Eroak

Comm tower on Carebear if it's the last flag left. I only seen it capped twice when they fell back to this flag. Reason? maybe becasue it's the slowest cappable flag, easiest to rocket, and it's cap radius is very short.

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So I am thinking shingle warehouse hard to capture and then defend, keeping in mind that columns is owned by they enemy and they know how to throw a nade & I know it is always captured rather quickly but I think this is due to attention being drawn elsewhere.

However I think I agree with Eroak on Comm tower on Carebear as being the hardest -- I usally see a hard re-cap when a few squads bunker down on the north side.

A

YdoUwant2know

Command center on Care Bear, if it is the last flag, is a damn death trap. Even with walker support and buggies to get you to the north of it, with there whole team there it is unbelievable. How many times have we seen EU pushed all the way back, no bleed, assets destroyed, and they still hold out and win?

Then again, any flag when it is there last, is insanely hard to take. I think anyone that was there remembers the TGIPF 10 minute one ticket left fight at EU base on Camp G. even with both walkers, PAC could not get the flag. That was an epic fight if I ever saw one.

Still, I think of all flags, the two hardest to take can both be found on Operation Shingle. Command Center and Columns when defended are a slaughter fest.

The stairs up to the flag on Columns are perfect for ambushing even the most skilled player and work perfectly for RDX and APM control. Add to it a single IDS can cover the whole flag and all possible entrances, and it is all but imposable to be caught off guard as a defender.

Command has limited entrances that can all be easily covered, A walker that spawns, and it is the high ground of the map. If defended, I think Command is second only to Columns on difficulty to take.

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ionpig-A

Against a disciplined EU team with an alert commander, the first flag on Minsk (no vehicles) is essentially impossible for the PAC to take.

The fortress at that choke point should have a giant mural of Gandalf the Grey screaming "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" painted on the front of it, topped off with whip cream, a maraschino cherry, and a side order of "WTF were the mappers thinking".




Command Center on Care Bear (no vehicles) would be my second choice.

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Lorax74

We've done it and while fun, it was still Camp Gibraltar. You would think Less people would make it easier to mount an assault but surprising, it's the same. Instead of having 22 people shooting at 22 people, you have 15 people shooting at 15 people. The bottleneck is the same.

32p Cerbere Landing however is a very exciting game. Covering South Town, the road to Roadblock and Command Center AND Church requires much more coordination and teamwork.

I would have to weigh in and say the first flag at Minsk is toughest. Second runner up would be Crossroads on Berlin or Reactor Core on 16p Sidi (if propery defended).

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Zhohar

Ah, that's an oddball one. And also quite true: a Ganz on each side can cover pretty much the entire bridge. It's a very difficult thing to approach linearly, and due to the inaccessibility of the flag, it's either a long walk to flank, or slugging it out below the bridges -- the first would take too long as bleed is killer, and the second is nearly a suicide rush as the enemy has the high ground.

I would like to submit something different: 16p Verdun, Infantry Only.
When the enemy holds all three flags, leaving the UCB to head for either Eastern or Western (whichever is closer to the friendly UCB) is a suicide wish. There is a 200x200m strech of wide open grassland with no cover save for a low wall that is perfect for ranging in rockets. Not even a ghost would save the SL that is stuck in this situation: the length of the walk is longer than 60m and anything save for going straight for the flag would take too long as bleed would already have won the game.

It is a horrendous position to be in, and I have never seen a team get out of it, much less win the round after such a situation.

I know I've said this more times than I can count but I really enjoy the dynamics of 16p Verdun.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?