austforbeer

First and foremost discuss it (briefly) with you SL. It all depends on how the squad is going to be run. Snipers can be great if you're defending a flag but if you're in one of my run and gun squads then we won't need one.

__________________

Lorax74

I generally allow my squads to play with their "favorite kits," but I do ask to only have one recon/sniper at a time. I don't often micromanage my squad members and leave it to them to decide if their kit choice is having a positive effect on our current goals or not. But, I do have to admit to asking for "all assault" when I feel the need. So, does a sniper fit into my squad? If the person playing the kit thinks it fits, then I guess it fits .

__________________

hooahguy

i ask if anyone has the lambert. if they do, i ask for one, if we are going on assault. if we are defense, then none.

LordMeatwad

As already stated second server is infantry only and a sniper can be as valuable as an engy in conquest with similar roles - mining and slowing enemy advances. On Conquest sniper is good at choke points during standoffs.

__________________
|TG-21| LordMeatwad
XBOX live = TG Lordmeatwad
Aion = Neovalan

Its a GUNDAM!

Anospa

To echo what Reaper said, read Guardian's posts in the multitude of threads we've had on this topic to see some good input. I'm currently the teacher for the TGU 2142 Recon class, but will definitely say Guardian has the upper hand before me; I don't mean to take away from the newer folks here that enjoy the recon kit, I just haven't seen much from you or played enough to see how you play the kit.

Recon is by far my favorite kit in 2142, but will take the medic/assault role without any question when I see it will be of more use to our team.

In recent memory, my most effective use of the recon kit was Sunday night the second round of BFCL preseason. Infantry only Highway Tampa, I was able to take down enemies as they approached from far out and finish off the ones that ran away from the friendlies.

There are a few things a recon can do much much better than any other kit, and even fewer that no other kit can do. The sad part is, the game is so fast paced due to the map design/choke points, that you have to be very very proficient with the kit to show any type of usefulness to your average squad.

__________________

Razcsak

I'd say the opposite. The very, very few times I'd call for a sniper are on vehicle-heavy maps, which you don't see with the second server. With vehicle or mixed maps, you'll see fewer medics running around since more people have switched to engineers to either combat or assist armor. This means that anyone you drop is much, much more likely to stay down. Further, you can more easily pick off engineers that bail out of a vehicle to repair it. On an infantry map, everyone and their mother is packing a defibrillator.

black_Mirror

Sure your totally right on the fact that snipers are quite effective on that kinda big maps. but still... if you have a sniper who knows what he is doing, he can be pretty useful while slowing down enemy movements on small maps. Verdun for example. Sure that one sniper won´t take out the whole squad he is shooting at.. and maybe everyone he is killing will get an instant-revive.. but that squad has been slowed down what can be pretty helpful while your getting in position to wipe them out. or just use him as a distraction while your sneaking through somewhere else.. or just as mobile spot-machine
( don´t forget about the RDX´ed flag.. on a no_vehicle map i doubt that someone will bring a defuser
anyway.. in that topic there is no right or wrong, no better or worse.. it´s just about opinions and thoughts.
"A sword in your hand does not make you a swordsman"
I just mean with that.. the same sniper in the one squad can be useless while is could be a great help in another squad. And at least no one will punish us for trying some knew things

__________________

Memento-Mori

I'll back Zhohar on this one. Though I wouldn't state it as clear cut as he did, the sniper's role on TG is still very limited. I had a persistant silent sniper in my squad the other day, despite several calls for only medics. We were on Verdun, and at a later point I realized I needed a sniper in squad. So, now I had a choice, ask a competent SM to switch to sniper, or just ask the sniper I had to switch from the Lambert to long range. I ordered the switch and I got a "roger" out of him for once, which turned out good. He learned some tactics and I didn't have to kick him out of my squad. But I have to make clear how much snipers grate on me all of the time. Go to a public server and half the team is sniper, come to TG and (in my opinion) there should be none, if for no other reason than the lone-wolf style of play they inspire. Are they tactical at some points, yes. Are they viable with skill, I suppose. But they are never very healthy to a server or squad, unless the SL gives the order, of course.

Vortex421

I strongly disagree with your statement and the belief that the kit has no business being a part of TG.

The recon kit may inspire a lone-wolf style of play on public servers, but I think we have established here that we have a dedication to two things: Doing things using teamwork and doing things using a tactically-oriented mindset. If something has a value tactically (as your very post did state), then it has a place here.

Allow me to quote for a minute from the book of Ecclesiastes - but the quote itself is so common that you can probably name one or more contemporary works that contain it.

"To every thing there is a season,
A time for every purpose under the sun."

When people think of Recon or snipers, they think of stationary, inactive targets whose sole purpose it is to shoot at enemies and become rocket fodder. But as many here have demonstrated before (Anospa, Guardian, Draeh, Chris Hooper, etc.), the recon kit can have a viable place inside a squad structure.

Without going into essay form (a habit I have at times), let me quickly rattle off a few uses for a good Recon kit:

1) Forward scouting - point man
2) Flag defense (anti-infantry)
3) Target suppression - this one I will explain a bit. If you poll many SLs here, they will tell you they use an Otis or attack drone when they SL. NOTHING makes a SL stand out like a sore thumb than a drone hovering 3 feet from the SL. NOTHING makes them a bigger target. Take out a SL and you have delayed the whole squad from their objective for a period of time ranging between 10 seconds and a minute, depending on who it is. Also, people get distracted easily. If a sniper takes down a SL, it reduces squad cohesion because now everyone's looking for the sniper. This has historical precedence as well - notably in WWII in the Russian campaign where Russian snipers would intentionally target German officers knowing that the squad cohesion would disintegrate. Some squads were so scared they called down artillery on the supposed location of the sniper - which was a waste of time and material.

I could write a book on the subject, but I will stop here. Statements like the one made do irk me because I believe that there is as much a time and place in a squad for a recon kit as there is for a support kit or an engineering kit. To that end, Memento, I encourage and invite you to tag along with me sometime and I will be happy to show you what sort of value it can have in a squad.

Forgive the length of this post and my passion on the subject.

__________________

"Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!"

Zhohar

... another thing you may want to consider, Knyght, is fun.

Fun and winning are often not compatible. Heck, from my personal recollections, fun and winning are oftentimes purely incompatible. You can't do fun things and win.

Unfun things that contribute to winning? Running only medic kits. Defending a back flag and staring at the sky. Holding spawn for 10 minutes before your squad finally breaks through and caps out the enemy.

If sniping is fun ... run a fun squad. Run a squad that's there for fun. There is nothing wrong with seeking fun. This is a video game and it's meant for fun. If you think sniping is fun, make a squad, co-ordinate with other people, and try and help out the team, and have a ball sniping.

My personal opinion is to not do that. Why?
Because ... I like fun. Of a different flavour. Fun for me is winning. I want to win, beyond anything and everything. The 3rd is extremely competitive. We're not here to have fun -- we're here to win. We're not here to joke around or have a good time -- we're here to cut throats and cap people out.
And that fact -- winning -- is fun for us.

But that's not the only way of having fun in this video game.

RDX whoring on FF-OFF servers is another way of having fun. TG doesn't like that, but you have to think for yourself here -- what do YOU find fun. Is the TG way your favourite way of having fun?

There are *so* many different ways of having fun. TG way is just one of them. And furthering that, each IHS on TG has its own style of having fun. The 8th, for example, are some of the most hilarious and fun-loving people you'll ever meet. The 3rd, on the complete opposite, will probably eat your babies after they cap you out because babies might grow up and get revenge.

... it's all about how you like having fun. So long as your way of having fun doesn't contradict with TG principles -- maturity, teamwork, communication -- go nuts. Create your own squad and have a ball.

What I'm really trying to give you here is self-confidence. Ask yourself "What do I find fun in this video game?" ... and don't take what other people find fun as what you ought to do.

__________________
Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Memento-Mori

I actually did not think I gave the impression I thought it was useless tactically speaking, however, is it too much to ask that the squad I lead into CQB come with me as medics when I ask? Instead of the usual 3 pubby snipers? One round on Tunis I kicked out 4 guys of my squad because they all suffered from Persistant Silent Sniper Syndrom (PSSS).

I would like to make clear, I often let my squad mates go sniper when we are on defence. But I would request three things of them, a) they have a mic and know how to use it (I would rather be told "5 men crossing barge," in voice than find the markers on the map, often out of range of the radar); b) they realize I may still need a few medics to remain with me, and c) they can and will switch kits the moment I request it. There is simply nothing as deflating as a squad lead than requesting assistance only to see you've got a third of your squad silently taking snipe shots across the map.

I am fun loving as well, as anyone whose played with me could probably attest (indeed, I was mocked once for doing something untactical by a 8th member), but playing in silent squads wears on me, and while you can play medic with no mic, snipers really need one.

In regards your offer, Vortex, I very much take it. I would love to play along side tactical snipers, especially those willing to teach their crafts.

Crux

I feel like I need to clarify this statement. The 3rd is extremely competitive. And we play to win. But for the members of the 3rd, the striving to improve, and to play at as high of a level as possible is fun. We do joke around. We do have a good time. But we also take steps to constantly be improving and be on top of our game.

The two aren't mutually exclusive and the moment they became so I would find something else do to.

__________________

Catman1975

Does not compute....ERROR.....ERROR......ERROR.....


ummm..... [and at all costs???]


Yeah, the 8th will eat your babies because they taste good....mmmmm....yummy



What???, man I that was either REALLY REALLY untactical or I need to train my people better...you were probably mocked because we didn't think of it first.

__________________

Memento-Mori

Obviously, since I was the one who came up with the deceptively simple idea of rushing an APC head-on solo-esq, I wouldn't call it "untactical" but merely "creative"... though Crux might just call it "stupid". However, while the fact it failed miserably points in some respects to a failure, I'd like to point out the fact that it failed only reinforces its "creative" side, as opposed to its "stupid" side, in my humble opinion.

thedogwarrior

I think the sniping kit has a place here at TG, if it's used correctly. As always for kit choices, you should follow your SL guidance as to what they want. But I think sniping squads can be very effective, if they're run properly. Maybe 2 snipers, 1 med, 1 supply. PLUS if they're used by the Commander they can be very effective at the tactics listed by Vortex above.

As the clock winds down at night, on 2142, or POE as well, with regulars leaving for the night, some of the play degrades to non-squad oriented nonsense, and you will see some lone-wolf sniping going on - but in general you don't see lone-wolf's during main hours of play here.

As for the "fun" vs. "competitive" discussion, I don't the two concepts are mutually exclusive of one another. Let's leave baby eating for another discussion...

__________________
|TG-8th| DOG

|TG-8th| Mercs * New to TG? Start Here * Become a Supporting Member