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Old 02-06-2009, 01:57 AM   #1 (permalink)

 
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PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

Assaulting EU on Berlin is difficult, but it can be done. The trick is in being fast and catching EU offguard. Mostly though, it’s just about being very fast.

As far as PAC is concerned: bluntly put, if it doesn’t happen in the first two minutes, it ain’t gonna happen at all.

As a PAC squad leader, you need to make sure your first two minutes are FLAWLESS. They need to be smoother than a hot knife through butter, they need to be prettier than Jessica Alba, and they need to be sexier than Gunther. There can be no screw ups.

Let’s just get the basics out of the way: at the start of the round, PAC is losing tickets due to bleed. To stop bleed, PAC needs to take a flag. Two flags are nice but not necessary – all PAC needs is a single flag. Which one does not matter, and one is enough.

This post concerns the most crucial part of the entire map for PAC – breaking through. More specifically, we’re concerned with the 0.0 breakthrough – what happens in the first two minutes of the round. Breakthrough later in the round is rarely decisive nor does it lead to victory.
From my experience, most of the round where PAC wins, PAC also breaks through in the first two minutes.

Allright then, let’s get to the meat of it. You’ve got about 45 seconds on the counter, full squad, and you’ve called your kits and told people to hold spawn. Now you get to decide what happens.

I’m going to run you through some bad ideas first, and then I’ll show what usually works. All of this is from my own experience – I do not try to hide my bias or speak what “could” or “might” happen – everything here has been tested and there are no flights of fancy or “wouldn’t it be cool if you did this.” Just hard up experience.

Bad ideas:

1. Everyone spawns and runs for Crossroads.
This is a very bad idea because it makes the squad slow. Remember the key to PAC victory: speed. You need to make sure your people spawn on you when you’re somewhere interesting. If they spawn before, your squad is slower and even a second makes a huge difference on the start of Berlin.

I cannot emphasize this more: speed of execution is all that matters during the first two minutes. Sprint upgrades and light armor are crucial. Spawning on squad leader is beyond important.

2. Run an “Armor” or “APC” or “Walker” squad.
This is a very bad idea as it deprives your team of a large amount of initiative. Armor is best used as a supporting role – staying back, staying repaired, staying alive. This is the exact opposite of what needs to happen during the first two minutes. During that time, the APC needs to be used to transport friendly squad leaders to the Crossroads flag or beyond. This is not a smart move from an armor point of view – it’s risky, and will most likely leave the APC dead.

This is what needs to happen. If you are running an APC squad on PAC Berlin, you should stop and re-evaluate what you’re doing. If the team has broken through, go nuts. If not … join another squad and make breakthrough happen.

The APC cannot be cute and shelling the flag in order for friendlies to advance. That just doesn’t work. People who say this works are the ones who like getting kills with the APC mortar. I like APC whoring much as the next guy, but this “covering infantry as they advice” thing just does not work. I have not ever seen it work – I’ve only seen this argument employed by people who like getting 70-2 Kill/Death ratios with the APC.

I’m not against killing a lot of people with the APC – but until breakthrough happens, the APC and everything else PAC owns, has to be sacrificed to stop bleed.

The *WORST* thing you can do is get in a fight between the PAC UCB and Crossroads. When you start throwing grenades or shooting your ARs or repairing your APC, you lose a lot of initiative. When you lose initiative, EU has time to set up, and if EU is set up, you’re in for a long round of frustration.

3. North Rush.
North Rush is a bad idea for several reasons. For one, it’s narrow and exposed so a recon run is difficult. It’s also a popular pubbie spot – pubbies will set up sentries and IDSs there without being asked. On top of this, provided that you manage to break through north, before you can get to a flag, you will meet the EU APC. This will most likely cause your squad to die very quickly. Oftentimes the APC mortar kills are unrevivable.

The North Rush is generally a poor idea.

4. South side, infantry rush.
The south side infantry rush is slow. The corridor on the south side is popular stand-off ground. As I mentioned above, stand-offs lose momentum, lose initiative, and that is the WORST thing you want to happen to PAC before breakthrough.
The south rush is slow, and even with a recon SL, very risky as it’s a round-about way. Usually there are at least engineers setting up mines there, and more often than not, APMs and RDX and IDSs.

Also note that you cannot cloak on ladders, and if you are killed on a ladder, you cannot be revived. This makes the south rush especially risky because your SMs might escape but if you die on the ladder, it’s all for nought.

Again, this post concerns the first two minutes of the round, so we’re assuming armor is not here. If armor is there, south side rush is not a rush at all but a stand-off in which the EU APC farms ridiculous number of kills.

5. South side APC rush.
This generally involves taking the APC and driving it straight off the bat through the south corridor, possibly throwing bait, and then podding over the fence.
First – bait is risky, and sometimes it doesn’t catch the far mines. Second, this attracts a LOT of attention. You will have people running for you at Roadblock, and on the south side, you are relatively far away from all flags and exposed on open ground.
Third, EU walkers like to wait on Roadblock for APCs trying to do south-side-fence rushes. There is nothing quite like having your face full of Riesig lead and then to see your beloved APC explode right behind you.

South side, from my experiences, is slow and risky.

---

Now that we’ve covered some things that will leave you in a 200-0 round in favour of EU, let’s discuss some smart things to do.
The focus is on speed and mobility. The main goal is to get a flag, to stop bleed. The assumption for all these is that everyone is running light armor with as many sprint upgrades as possible. It’s also assumed that everyone holds spawn initially and spawns on SL when possible.

Good ideas:

1. Ghosted recon run.
Briefly – tell your SMs to hold spawn, get close to Crossroads, recharge your sprint, set your ghost down, engage camo, and run through the middle road, sticking to cover if possible. When you make it to the west building of Crossroads, tell your SMs to spawn in – only medics, and take it from there.
By this point, you should have a UAV up. If Crossroads is lightly defended, GO FOR IT. Don’t get cute and try to break through far into EU territory. Remember that you only need a single flag.
If Crossroads is heavy, move on and do what I call “riding the wave of death.” This basically means running toward EU back flags, while your friendly squad members die in your wake as a distraction. When you pull this off right, things will happen like this:

- you let your squad members spawn in the building west of Roadblock
- squad members go to cap Roadblock, you move on
- as soon as the SMs cap Roadblock, EU infantry/armor mows them down and they all die
- by this point, you’re at Square (remember, you kept running while the SMs capped)
- your squad members spawn in and cap Square but you keep running
- again, they cap Square, die, and possibly lose the flag.
- by now, you’re at Outpost
- tell your SMs to spawn in, cap flag, get on Rorsches and steal armor if possible
- Outpost is easily defended, and you need to put up a fight here

That’s “riding the wave of death”. Your 5 squad members continually die as a distraction while you break through. This gets you VERY UGLY kill/death ratios, but if that’s what it takes to stop bleed, then so be it. Remember that TG is about teamwork and getting things done – it’s not about focusing on stats.

2. APC rush.
Spawn in, run for the APC, and drive off without waiting. If you pick up a friendly SL, great, if not DO NOT WAIT EVEN HALF A SECOND.
If you wait, the EU has time to set up mines, and regardless of how many engineers with bait you spawn in, if you lose that first bit of initiative on Crossroads, you are screwed.

Again, never wait.

Drive the APC straight for Crossroads. If you are lucky, there are no mines, and you can bypass even farther – off to Square and maybe even Outpost.
If you aren’t lucky, bail the APC, and use the pod to get as close to the west building of Crossroads as possible.

Once you’re in the west building, or near it, proceed as above – run as far as you can and ride the wave of death.

One very important note: if you plan to do an APC rush, designate an engineer to spawn on you, and tell them to stay in the APC regardless of what happens. Don’t simply pod out of the APC and leave it empty at Crossroads.

Also note, when you bail the APC, you will be doing a lot of sneaky running. Carry a recon kit with ghost/camo. The longer you stay alive as an SL, the better. In fact, the best rule of thumb for a squad leader is how long he can stay alive for his people to spawn in. Avoid fights, don’t get cute, stay alive, tell your people to cap flags while you move off, and always be running.

3. General infantry rush for Crossroads.
Same as recon rush, except without the recon kit. SL usually carries medic (to stay alive) and everyone spawns with smoke grenades. Everyone spawns just east of the building east of Crossroads flag, and throws smoke on the main road. They run for Crossroads, and cap. If done right, the smoke should provide enough cover and confusion for the cap.
At this point, move off because the EU APC will be there and shelling the flag. It’s a good idea to run an engineer and set down motion mines on Crossroads flag as you cap it in order to prevent the EU APC/Walker from getting close to the flag.

Out of the three options, the smoke rush is the riskiest, and most susceptible to failure due to random APMs, to random RDX thrown on Crossroads flag and other such nasty business.

---

Bottom line is – if it doesn’t happen in the first two minutes, it ain’t gonna happen at all. Be fast and be disciplined. If at first you fail, try again, and try harder.
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

Excellent points. I'd like to add one additional element to the Ghosted Recon Run, that I've found works quite often. Instead of having your squad spawn on you in the building between Crossroads and Roadblock, have them spawn when you get to the wreckage just south of the Crossroads flag. With 5 medics spawning in and moving on the flag, there's a good chance you'll at least neutralize the flag. At the worst, they'll cause a hefty distraction and all die, giving you 15 seconds to get past any defense at roadblock before they spawn in again. By that time the friendly APC should be at or near the flag killing people, and because the flag's neutralized they have to spawn at roadblock. In the 15 seconds it takes for them to respawn you're already halfway to Square, while their whole team is focused on getting Crossroads back.

After that, riding the wave of death as you put it is exactly what you need to do. Remember that even a defended Outpost can be taken out by a ghosted squad bomb. Be careful when defending as either PAC or EU!
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Old 02-06-2009, 04:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

One point I like to make about the infantry rush on Crossroads is that you DO NOT have to be inside the walls around the flag to take it. Between the wall and the wreckage is not too bad a spot. Many will look over you, any RDX on the flag will not effect your nor will grenades.
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:26 PM   #4 (permalink)

 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

Good right up Zho, but I have found that when it doesn't happen in the beginning there is still hope. As the battle ensues and people are occupied, I bring my squad up the middle, ask for some smoke or an orbital for cover, run straight thur the center corridor as my squad defends my back and revives me, they stop at roadblock and I continue to Square, my squad is constantly told to spawn on me.
As I move an the enemy responds, the rest of our team can cap at least Croassroads. The best case scenario is that we cap at least one, if not two flags and pull the enemy back to thier main.
Doesn't always work, but when it does....look out.
I so love that map!! I really love being on the attacking side!
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

Good info Zohar, thanks for the tips.

Like Fubar, I like being on the PAC side attacking! I am even starting to learn to speak PAC
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

I tried the Ghostrun ten times today, and half the times I got emped
and shotgunned by you!
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:02 AM   #7 (permalink)

 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

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Originally Posted by tinithe View Post
I tried the Ghostrun ten times today, and half the times I got emped
and shotgunned by you!
Haha, true, it's a bit difficult when there's people paying attention. Keep in mind that the Ghost only has a range of 60 meters from where you deploy it, and after that, you can and are easily spotted.

Good tries there Naith, though, XP and I had fun trying to hunt you down.
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

Here is a thought concerning Berlin. How about taking the APC on the north side, use the mortar as cover and have SMs pod over to make a rush for it? Does the mortar have the distance to hit after the northen corridor?
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:49 AM   #9 (permalink)

 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

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Originally Posted by frozenchrome View Post
Here is a thought concerning Berlin. How about taking the APC on the north side, use the mortar as cover and have SMs pod over to make a rush for it? Does the mortar have the distance to hit after the northen corridor?
The angle and range of the APC mortar can't make this work. The mortars would fall too far north and you wouldn't be able to damage the people just around the corner of that north building.
I suppose it would work if you were 10-20 meters back from the ledge, but then you couldn't see what you were shooting at so that's useless.

Walker is the same deal, except that it's Pillum bait and the EU APC can EMP it in place. With the added bonus that the Walker will take a significant bit of fall damage if it slides down the ledge.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

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Originally Posted by Zhohar View Post
5. South side APC rush.
This generally involves taking the APC and driving it straight off the bat through the south corridor, possibly throwing bait, and then podding over the fence.
First – bait is risky, and sometimes it doesn’t catch the far mines. Second, this attracts a LOT of attention. You will have people running for you at Roadblock, and on the south side, you are relatively far away from all flags and exposed on open ground.
Third, EU walkers like to wait on Roadblock for APCs trying to do south-side-fence rushes. There is nothing quite like having your face full of Riesig lead and then to see your beloved APC explode right behind you.

South side, from my experiences, is slow and risky.
The APC is expendable as long as the ends justify the means...The APC is often commandeered by people who do not appreciate their effectiveness...I've seen APC's fall way faster trying to stay alive on the center of the attack road to crossroads because of orbitals and horrifically bad driving...

I just played a round of Berlin today with a few brave souls and find that this tactic is worthy of perfecting. I've played with this tactic before with similar results. You, as a SL have to stay alive just long enough...that is the only condition...We capped out the opposing team 240-0. I wouldn't recommend this for the light-hearted. It takes some luck, skill and most importantly excellent squad members. You must come in medic since you need to be able to self heal.

You must run the APC to the south side quickly and efficiently...try this tactic only if you are lucky enough to spawn right next to it and don't hit any road obstacles along the way

I ran the APC around the south bend and caught their team in a bind...A few details: [Remember you will not have all these factors every single time you try this tactic]
A.)I had another good squad leader still in the back with at least more than 3/4 of our team charging crossroads.
B.)I was able to bring at least 10 or more soldiers (some were not part of my squad) over the fence and onto crossroads
C.)The first person I killed was their commander...he was on roadblock flag!!!! This certainly was a blow to their initial commander resources.
D.)We stalled and held up both their APC and Walker between square and roadblock. We even took out one of those pieces of armor along the way. We stalled them since I had beaten them to the roadblock flag.
E.)We created huge amounts of commotion on roadblock and square by moving back and forth between those two flags in the building causing their team guessing which one we would take (My squad took neither but helped in spreading their defenses thin)
F.)At one point I swore we had 3 enemy squads chasing us left and right. We were always just one step ahead of them.

By the time I finally "died" my first time it was due to the fact that we were pinned by both their walker and APC firing at my squad with more than half their team behind or around roadblock. Needless to say by that time, our team had capped both Crossroads and Roadblock.

This tactic is risky and full of interdependent factors (like having another good SL and commander who realize the two front war the team is fighting: one behind crossroads and one trying to capture crossroads) that one just can't account for when playing a game. But the most striking points about this tactics are:
1.) If you have an over-reactive enemy, they will throw too much of their defensive force at you and leave crossroads relatively undefended. Succeeding on this tactic and running interference effectively means you must outpace the enemy and stay in safe zones with a medic right besides you.
2.) You stall their armor, MAJOR IMPORTANCE...don't try to sneak once you're at roadblock...flaunt your presence, trick them into thinking that eliminating 1 squad is their main objective, but in reality it should be crossroads that they should be worried about. Once a team is able to establish a foot hold on crossroads with a 20 point ticket lead...a win becomes much more realistic..

3.)I usually let 4 SM's run every which way to make the enemy team second guess where my actual position is.

I've often seen problems in which a team struggles to find and eliminate an infiltrating force behind defensive lines: Their response is usually crippled by the fact that the squad is too far back or that it's not coordinated (which squad goes back which stays in the frontlines.....) or even to the point that it's unexpected.

4.) If the armor ignores you, you have a chance of capturing back flags.
5.) You can always take roadblock but there is a risk that their APC and walker will have already been there.
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:09 PM   #11 (permalink)

 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

Yep, good point Doc. If you are at a back flag such as Roadblock, Square or Outpost, the only people who will run for you are the extremely smart TGers.
At which point, the fight at Crossroads is 12 people down -- your squad, and the TG squad running after you. Which basically boils down to: do I have another TG SL who can make things happen at Crossroads against mostly pubbies?

It's a bloody mind game. This is why SLing is so fun -- you just mess with people's heads.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

I SL a round on Berlin yesterday as PAC, and was able to cause enough commotion at Roadblock to have the APC and Walker fall back to get us, and it gave our fellow squads enough time to capture Crossroads. Unfortunately, we already lost too many tickets for a victory.

It seems if you put pressure on one side, then quickly push on the opposite end, you can breakthrough, the hole will close quickly, but hopefully you had enough time to get atleast a squad in there.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

realy nice for a new player like me to get a read off the taktiks and to know what's to do as a SM. i mean, i just play maybe 1-2 times in week on "black_mirror's" pc to have some fun so as you maybe saw sometimes, my SL's can'S expect that much from me. but guides like this are a good help to be a less fat stone on the legs from some more skilled players in your squad.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

AWESOME thread guys, it was some great reading material to go with my coffee this morning, and now I shall go apply these tactics!! Good to have tips from the #1 annoying and unpredictable enemy SL, Zhohar!
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Old 02-14-2009, 07:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Re: PAC Assault on Berlin: What Works and What Doesn't

Awesome post Zhohar! Extremely well thought out and written!

Quote:
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It's a bloody mind game. This is why SLing is so fun -- you just mess with people's heads.
That right there is the reason I still play BF2142!
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