defensive demolitions on Camp G

BeSiege82 · 04-14-2009, 12:44 AM

I have been pondering the usefulness of a defensive demolitions squad for the Camp G map.

In Defense of Harbor:

In my mind a demolitions squad consisting of 5 recons and 1 support would be very useful in the defense of Harbor. The recons can place their APMs at the top of stairs, at the top of ladders, and at blind spots near the corners of walls; and their RDX would be placed in the paths the walker can use to enter the flat paved areas. In cases of emergency such as the immanent loss of the flag, the squad should easily have the ability to launch RDX at the flag from multiple places.

In my opinion, there should at most be one sniper, the rest of the recons should be using a Lambert. The support should bring an IDS and a sentry or EMPs.

In Defense of Toll:

At Toll flag, the squad would want to have two supports, one sniper, and 3 lambert using demolitions based recons.

There should be 2 supports with an IDS, shield, and a heavy machine gun. They would want to set up on both of the awnings above the entrances to the toll buildings located on either side of the toll flag. They would have a clear shot down the middle of each side corridor.

The sniper would be in either tower and he has a clear choice of what he brings. At least some sort of demolitions is preferable.

The 3 recons would place their RDX and APMs in defensive and offensive places. They would have freedom of choice in locations to place their weapons.

The key for this squad to work correctly is to find willful, patient, and non-tk'ing players. If you have some players who are bad about tk'ing, you will probably lose an arm or two.

So, does anyone have thoughts about my idea?

**Axis_Sniper** · 04-14-2009, 01:49 AM

We need atleast one medic, bit I like this idea. Imagine the sound of 8 APMs going off at once. They'll think twice before they casually walk up them ramps.

**pred011586** · 04-14-2009, 01:54 AM

When I run CampG Toll Def squads, I call for 2 Recon, a Support, 2 Assault, and an Engie.

The Recon place their RDX where MMs would normally go. Engie places 2 EMP mines at the front of each RDX set, and 1 back between those barracades which is where he places his motion mines. If each recon plays an APM on the catwalk up top and one near the flag, then hides behind the barracades to watch their respective side, then with 2 assaults and a support covering the flag it's a pretty formidable defense. I've used it to great success, but I got lucky with having squad members who were capable of sitting still for so long and still being alert.

BeSiege82 · 04-14-2009, 02:51 AM

I forgot to mention a strange note about RDX and buggies. When buggies run over RDX, their tires pick up the RDX, which essentially causes the buggy to become a mobile bomb.

Mercenary90 · 04-14-2009, 03:08 AM

I personally believe that more than 1 recon is useless for defending Toll in early game.
If a squad breaks through the Western passage or bails out of a buggy outside the reach of your mines, a recon squad would no doubt be mowed down by the enemy's (presumably) assault medics. Or you could just have a squad of Chris Hoopers. But then, you're pretty much guaranteed to win anyways.

BeSiege82 · 04-14-2009, 03:41 AM

I've run this squad at least once before, but we held put until the walker killed everything in the harbor area. I believe multiple snipers is a bad thing in a place like harbor.

In situations where Toll is being attact, it is more than likely that there will be more than one squad guarding toll flag.

**MrMojay** · 04-14-2009, 12:04 PM

As myself and jazy2 have discussed many a time, we feel playing the game with all soldier types is the way to go, 3 medics and 1 each of the rest, of course if there is no armor then you would have no need for an engie.
I think at harbor you would need at least 1 even 2 engies to mine the road and the dirt track leading onto the train tracks.

MrJengles · 04-14-2009, 04:45 PM

Defense

Toll

Squad kit preferances always depend on the situation. For a start on Camp G I think the focus on defense at the start is being more switched to Toll than Harbor. While more likely to stop early breakthroughs to any other flag, Harbor seems to get taken quickly a lot of the time. As this then leads to the Harbor / Toll stand off I don't like it that much, it's inevitable it'll happen sometimes but you're just asking for it when 2 squads spawn at Toll for the start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercenary90

I personally believe that more than 1 recon is useless for defending Toll in early game.
If a squad breaks through the Western passage or bails out of a buggy outside the reach of your mines, a recon squad would no doubt be mowed down by the enemy's (presumably) assault medics.

So I am in agreement with Mercenary. Also, that 1 recon can be very effective by himself with RDX and APMs near the centre to stop people rushing to the flag, RDX on the road, or RDX on the bottleneck Western passage between Toll and Central to stop the buggy. I personally did that last 1 for a particular round with a determined squad trying to get a buggy past; I think I became very annoying.

Once Harbour is taken, everyone will be spawning at Toll so a squad of Recon could be very useful for defense. As well as the above list, mines in any corridor become helpfull.

For myself I mostly use the sniper rifle, there is of course the fun...but I think the biggest reason is that RDX, if you have it in a good place there is no way you want to die and have to re-set it all again! That annoys me. I suppose you could find your dead bodies kit...
The point is with a sniper rifle I tend to stay at a distance from the action; with a lambert I die often

Harbour

The effectiveness of defending Harbour with a squad of recon would probably vary...if there are 2 squads on Toll you may well get steam rollered at the start and you can't revive people. Then again blowing up people as they rush, or RDX on a flag slows blitz tactics well. Also a good point to note is that with RDX and motion mines it's less likely a buggy will get past, making it even more unnecessary to have lots of people at Toll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeSiege82

I forgot to mention a strange note about RDX and buggies. When buggies run over RDX, their tires pick up the RDX, which essentially causes the buggy to become a mobile bomb.

I've seen this before but only once. I mentioned it to people but they hadn't seen it, so it might be rare. The only 2 uses I can think of are: if you didn't get your detonator out in time but the enemy buggy now has the RDX sticking to them...and if you deliberately waited for the buggy to drive near targets or a squad to spawn in. Would be cool but unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercenary90

Or you could just have a squad of Chris Hoopers. But then, you're pretty much guaranteed to win anyways.

Hahaha. The enemy wouldn't get near.

**pred011586** · 04-14-2009, 05:20 PM

If you're going to be defending toll, you're going to want 2 Assault, 1 Support, and either 2 Recon, 1 Engineer, or 2 Engineer, 1 Recon. The Lambert is alot more better than the SMG, plus you get a pistol as Recon. I'd prefer 2 Recon with Lambert/RDX/APM and 1 Engineer, over 2 Engineer and 1 Recon. Also the SL of the squad should pack an Otus. With the Recon NetBat, it makes a world of a difference having a UAV's range without the UAV.

The Support kit's loadout has one option that you don't often get. Emp Grenades are a must, but defending toll station as Support with an Otus on the SL and the Recon netbat in the squad, is a good time to bust out that Pulse Scanner nobody uses. Before you laugh at the idea, consider this. It's range is further than that of a UAV, but only your foward arc. More importantly, however, the pulse scanner picks up enemy beacons as well (according to it's description, I haven't gotten a chance to do any formal tests on this fact yet). The Diamonds that the pulse scanner creates puts dots on the minimap because of the Recon NetBat also, and it's refresh rate is faster than that of the Otus. If you see a dot nearby, thanks to the Recon Netbat, an alert player will have plenty of time to switch to the Clark to ambush someone about to turn a corner.

Cavall · 04-21-2009, 04:12 PM

With a map like CampG, with lots of side passageways and relatively narrow and cluttered routes... its a paradise for a recon with APM's and theres several locations where a RDX trap can be used effectively. I'm rarely a SL but the few times I am, and am on CampG, I'll have a recon in the squad. An APM guarding the eastern exits of Toll is just wonderful for stopping a ghost squad, not to mention the walkways on the west on the way to central camp have several boxes that can hide APM's quite nicely. The only flags that can't be demo'd effectively are EU Base and Central Camp, just due to the multiple floors. Yea ruin has a second floor but it rarely gets any use. There seems to be some discussion about toll defense and I'd have to say a sniper on the walkway that runs east to west is the way to go. From that position you can effectively defend both lower and upper of each side, as swap between east and west with relative ease. Not to mention if you set up a demo trap in one of the lower gate areas at Toll, you can also see very well from this position, wheras most enemy infantry are more concerned with their immediate surroundings.

**Mixa** · 04-21-2009, 04:48 PM

What recons lack combined to engineers: Ability to still keep vehicles at pay, even if they are busy somewhere else.
Other thing why recon squad is more likely to fall, than standart (4medics + support + engineer) is lack of firepower against medics swarming from their enemy's trustworthy squad lead. APMs are good counter and thats only reason why I see 5 recons in anyway fit. They can slow down biggest of armies when they have to crouch near key positions.

But again we end up with the fact that medics can save tickets, so I'd go with 1 recon who can hit people while they are running in the open, or hitting heads when they are still.

With excellent coordination (and the set-up time for rdx / mines) I don't see why this wouldn't work, but I personally won't go with more than 2 recons at any point

**PM07SNV** · 04-22-2009, 01:01 PM

This is a squad setup for a final ditch titan core attack! I tend to leave kits open on Harbor defence. So long as I have a mixture, and we are fairly close to the flag, I'm happy.

**leet3lite** · 04-24-2009, 02:41 PM

I agree. A mix is good. If you have to assault and deal with APMs on corners, RDX on flags, rockets air-bursting behind cover and machine guns cutting through open spaces and corridors and IDS revealing your position... you're going to have one hell of a bad day.
Remove any of those and your attack options are increased because you simply don't have to worry about dying in so many different ways.

**pred011586** · 04-24-2009, 03:46 PM

I would like to say that my original idea of having RDX instead of MMs on the corridors although resistant to MM bait, has it's flaws in that it requires two Recon to be focused on the corridors, and have impeccible timing on a lag-free connection. That's a bit much to ask. Instead, I propose the typical 2 Engineer, 1 Support, 3 Assault defense, but with one of the assaults going Recon. APMs on the catwalks, and RDX to the SW of the flag. If the buggy comes in the west corridor, then the EMP mines will cause it to slow to halt near those tank barricades. If it comes from the east corridor then it has to slow down to make that turn. Either situation makes for a much easier RDX kill than trying to time it with a speeding buggy. As an added bonus, by being back there the Recon becomes our first response team to breakthrough.

I'll try something similar to this next time I'm the EU squad defending Toll.