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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - Tactics and Missions Discussion - How a Sniper helps a Squad - Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
I've spent most of my time on 2142 as a lone
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08-02-2007, 09:24 PM #136
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Re: Sniper + Squad
If this is the case, I highly encourage you to join our Conquest server (it generally has more regular TG players on it than our Titan server does) and join a TG run squad. Believe me, when you see how the game is meant to be played and the extent we go to maintain our higher standards of play and teamwork, you'll wonder how you ever survived without TG. Just make sure you mic is working prior to joining the server, it's not a prerequisite but it makes the experience that much more enjoyable. And resist the urge to lone wolf...
Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
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08-03-2007, 12:22 AM #137
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Re: Sniper + Squad
No one ever usually notices anything beyond their own kill spam. If I send a whole enemy squad to their deaths at 10-20% health each (usually I kill a few before they rush a flag), and the assault guys mop them up, the assault guys feel really uber, because all they see is that they mopped up an enemy squad with very few bullets per enemy. What I see is this; Originally Posted by Guardianx11x
"You got a kill assist!"
"You got a kill assist!"
"You got a kill assist!"
"You got a kill assist!"
Of course, the person doing the killing blow never sees;
"You mopped up PERSONXYZ's wounded!"
"You mopped up PERSONXYZ's wounded!"
"You mopped up PERSONXYZ's wounded!"
"You mopped up PERSONXYZ's wounded!"
Honestly, what's wrong with a squad members assisting each other on kills? Haven't I heard TG players time and again talking about assisting each other, and concentrating fire on targets? Why is it when a Recon Sniper does it, it's suddenly the wrong way to play?
Quite often when I'm playing sniper, I'll see two opposing squads go at it near a flag, their squad, and my squad. I'll see a bunch of bullets fly, and then I'll lay the killing blow on most of the enemy squad, usually by using the default sniper rifle because it chambers faster and has 2 more rounds. When the enemy squad and my squad trade bullets then duck and cover, I'm in the flanking position to finish off the enemy, then my squad mates see;
"You got a kill assist!"
"You got a kill assist!"
"You got a kill assist!"
"You got a kill assist!"
Are my squad mates doing something wrong? Not every single encounter resolves in insta-death for every single player involved. As a matter of fact, a smart player will drop his targets, and retreat to lick his wounds, so that his assault buddy isn't defibbing, but instead dropping an ammo box and then having his assault weapon at the ready. A defibbing player is one that now puts his squad down two guns, instead of one (the fallen player.) Now, it is a necessity to revive, however the more players that I have dropped are dead and are reviving each other, is another player that doesn't have a gun in his hand. Rushing in like a moron and dieing just because you know you'll be revived doesn't suit a play style of realistic play. Charging tactically, dealing out what damage you can, and then getting healed is a far more realistic style of play.
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08-03-2007, 04:22 AM #138
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Re: Sniper + Squad
I'm happy you went after the bait Bagheera. Let me just say that you are crazy if you think that tactic is effective. Since you made your argument from the snipers perspective I'll do the same.... Originally Posted by Bagheera
Your accuracy with the sniper rifle is most likely around 50% as it is with most decent snipers, so in combat you can expect to land 50% of your shots. So there you have it...a grand total of 3 hits if you get to unload your ENTIRE CLIP, which takes a good long while. And what do you think the enemy squad is doing? All of them are in range of your squad that is a man down. They have an extra guy with an assault rifle! So my question is this...do you really think your doing more damage than he is?
PS: the answer is no.
If you still don't think this tactic is useless...PM me and we can play a game together, I'd like to see how high you can get your team score in an entire game by doing this...my record isn't even 15.Shhhh I'm being made
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08-03-2007, 06:30 AM #139
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Re: Sniper + Squad
Im sorry I cant be bothered to quote from the last 10 posts or so.
Onthe voicecomms - you say what positiont he enemy is at. that way, no matter where the team mates are, they know the dirrection and distance to the target. "Contact, north, 78 meters" is too slow/ambigious. you simply say "Eastspawn, toll low". that way, everyone knows where the enemy is. you dont even have to be looking that way to work out his position (unlike the netbat).
Now on to the sniping rifles in combat. If it gets to the point where 2 squads are "broadsiding" each other, then the sniper int he squad will be in his dream world. you hit someone with 1 AR/ HMG round and a sniper rifle round and hes dead. Also, if you can only maintain a 50% accurracy, you shoudlt be sniping. My accurracy is about 50% on moving targets (sprint/normal speed) at around 100 meters. Still targets you simply dont miss. As people firing are stationary, (scoped, and usually) you can get easy headshots. You therefore should equalise the assault battle with your first round, leaving your guys with 3 assaults vs 3 assaults + a sniper.
the point about the 2nd chance. He doesnt get a 2nd chance. If I pop out of cover and 2 AR bullets hit me/whizz past, I get back into cover. I choose another route. that is the 2nd chance. If you pop out of cover and get hit by a AR round and a sniepr rifle round, youre dead. then the assault can aim rockets are the corpse and wait, while the sniper either keeps overview for 15 seconds, or reloads or w/e.
If anyone wants to see what Im talking about, we really should try to play a 2 man squad, a medic and sniper and play wiht a little co-ordination. Its really really easy to do, but Im guessing 2 man squads in TG are usually 2 meds or med+support/engy.I use the 3 call rule: If I ask you for ammo/health/repairs 3 times and you just stand there and look at me, im TK'ing you and taking what I need.
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08-03-2007, 07:11 AM #140
Re: Sniper + Squad
All points have been noted I usually prefer conquest to Titan, Titan is too laggy and not enough firefights, more about vehicles, which I am in the mood for sometimes, but I usually prefer conquest anyway, yes, I'll do a few mic tests, and I have read all of the SOPs, I know about the radio check, don't worry, I can follow orders, and I won't lone wolf if I have orders, If I don't and the squad leader doesn't really care about their squad, that's when I lone wolf, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen if I have a TG SL. Originally Posted by Lorax74
If this is the case, I highly encourage you to join our Conquest server (it generally has more regular TG players on it than our Titan server does) and join a TG run squad. Believe me, when you see how the game is meant to be played and the extent we go to maintain our higher standards of play and teamwork, you'll wonder how you ever survived without TG. Just make sure you mic is working prior to joining the server, it's not a prerequisite but it makes the experience that much more enjoyable. And resist the urge to lone wolf...
-------------------------------------------------------
On another point, all of the other posts have been talking about what's good and bad about certain things in certain situations, but so many points are argued, when talking about one certain situation, and they would all work, but this is only because there are lots of factors that have not been specified. I can see you looking confused so I'll give you some examples. The three posts above this are are assuming a lot. They are assuming the amount of life, rounds, ability, experience, kit, situational awareness, (and there is a lot more stuff) that everyone has. The map, e.g. Camp has haze, or certain maps might be more liked by certain people and it could benefit them, the amount of, where exactly everyone is exactly in relation to you is almost impossible to put down on a page, sometimes you have an obscured view, the kits being used by both the opposition and the friendlies, the amount of rounds, the amount going on near you, you may have to watch your own back, if a squad is storming a flag, but you are in the thick of things with a couple of others from your squad, you're also assuming the squad numbers are equal. All I'm saying is, a lot of the situational attributes are being either assumed, or replaced by others e.g:
Reply : Originally Posted by Bagheera
Assumption of situational attribute. Originally Posted by Guardianx11x
And this whole argument is structured on the previous assumption, and also, an assault soldier that's unskilled, low on health, low on rounds in their clip, not comfortable with a map (basically at a disadvantage for any single, or combination of reasons, will probably do less damage) Originally Posted by Guardianx11x
Reply to both points above.
Assuming they are broadsiding each other. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Maybe Baur and Ganz, but Voss, and others, not so much. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Notice the word "about" this is not definitive, and is an assumption to an extent. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Another assumption (although he is right, you shouldn't miss still targets with a sniper, but some snipers do (the really terrible ones, Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
))
Assumption that they are not moving, some Voss users, move a lot, and stay unscoped, (forgot the word..is it "side-firing" ... "off/from-the-shoulder-firing" ... "shoulder-aiming" ...??? Its something like that...anyway...). They may also be bunnyhopping or , moving to/from prone, to/ from another position. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Assuming there was an equal number to begin with, that the sniper made his shot, that your team are all assault, the other team is all assault, everyone has a similar ability (they might have those awesome Baur users that headshot at will), that everyone is equal in terms of all of those factors (and more) that I mentioned. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Sorry for the long post, but I wasn't sure if I would be able to express this point fully, so I did as much detail as possible,. I'm not criticising anyone, just noting a fundamental flaw in the debates being had. I noticed something was wrong when I was agreeing with more than one side of this argument, and realised that everyone was correct to an extent, in the situation they were visualising, the problem was, that others were visualising something different on the Battlefield, however slight it may be.
Last edited by SharinganTH1422; 08-03-2007 at 07:56 AM.
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X
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08-03-2007, 08:00 AM #141
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Re: Sniper + Squad
The phrase you are looking for here is "shoot from the hip". Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
Last edited by Lorax74; 08-03-2007 at 08:52 AM.
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08-03-2007, 08:17 AM #142
Re: Sniper + Squad
HIP! That's the one, thanks, Originally Posted by Lorax74
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X
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08-03-2007, 10:17 AM #143
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Re: Sniper + Squad
thats because conquest rules, titan doesnt Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
Of course many other factors are involved. You do need to bear in mind however that many other factors cannot be brought into this at all. For example, I can say a sniper is good because a good sniper can wipe out 10 medics OF VERY LOW SKILL. It invalidates everyhting. you have to assume there is no major tactical advantage to either side, as that is often the biggest contribution to wether squad A will wipe out B or vice versa. 2 assault guys can wipe out a squad of 6, if they work fast and have a big enough tactical advantage, so can we say 2 assaults are better than 6? No, of course we cant. Ill discuss in some more detail below. Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
What I mean, is that the 2 squads are fully engaged with eachother. All squad members are aware of the emeny and are participating in soem kind of acticity that ensures their survival and the enemies destruction. Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
1 round or 2, its fairly irrellevant. The point there is that its easier/faster to kill someone with an assualt rifle if they ahve 10-20 health instead of 100. Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
I have good days and bad days Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
On a good day, its around 70% on a bad its like 20%.
Im talking about my level of skill. I do not find it hard to lead a stationary target Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
Another assumption (although he is right, you shouldn't miss still targets with a sniper, but some snipers do (the really terrible ones,))
In that case, they are a low priority target as they are a low threat. Their bullets will ge everywhere and the assault rifles that are stationary, crouched and scoped will have siginficant advantages. they are also likely to be the closest to the assault rifle users of your team, meanign your assault rifles will probably prioritise him. If he is prone spamming (for lack of better term) a sniper with a half decent sense of rythm will be able to score at least a chest shot on him. Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
you have to. Otherwise you say the 4 wipe out the 3, or the 21 wipe out the 4. Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
Dont be. Long structured and interesting posts (such as your last) are better than posts of the "Omg sniperz ownzor!" type Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
Sorry for the long post, but I wasn't sure if I would be able to express this point fully, so I did as much detail as possible,.
It isnt so much a fundamental flaw as much of a necissity. As we are evaluating and comparing the performances of weapons directly, many other factos must be kept the same. you simply cannot introduce [into the discussion] another factor that may effect the outcome of the battle without then at least partially invalidating your analysis of the weapons. Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422
I use the 3 call rule: If I ask you for ammo/health/repairs 3 times and you just stand there and look at me, im TK'ing you and taking what I need.
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08-03-2007, 10:53 AM #144
Re: Sniper + Squad
Yes, Makes sense, but also, the 2 assaults taking out the 6, is an extreme, I'm just saying, in some situations, even if u have a slightly smaller amount in one squad, yet its much ore skillful, experienced, and at ease with the situation, and with their squad, the one with more skill is more likely to win, even if it has 1, or even 2 less members Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
The point I was trying to make here was that no-one else had mentioned "broadsiding", you were arguing against a non-existent argument, and again, a situational attribute, that no-one had assumed was a situational attribute at the time. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Yep, no arguments, Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
He, he, fair enough, Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
I have good days and bad days On a good day, its around 70% on a bad its like 20%..
I should hope not, you wouldn't be much of a sniper if you did. :P Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Im talking about my level of skill. I do not find it hard to lead a stationary target
More assumptions, many people (myself included) can shoot from the hip with decent accuracy, and I usually do, in those times when people jump out at you suddenly. But yes, you are probably right, they would [i]usually[i] be up close if they're not scoped, you'd have to be a n00b to shoot at someone from distance, unscoped. Yet, if both squads are quite close to each other, there isn't going to be any "priority" enemies, however in this case, you could simply just get a soldier that's not moving much, unless they are all shooting, from the hip... Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
At least a chest shot, yes I suppose, but there have been may times, when I'm targeting a soldier's head, and out of the blue, they turn prone, just as I take the shot. There may not be a rythm to the "prone spamming" either. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Thanks for the compliment, Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Dont be. Long structured and interesting posts (such as your last) are better than posts of the "Omg sniperz ownzor!" type, I also do find your posts very interesting and I've enjoyed debating this with you.
But my point is, factors are not being kept the same, but yes, agree, with the rest. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X
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08-03-2007, 11:31 AM #145
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Re: Sniper + Squad
First, you are not that accurate. Your overall accuracy is about 50% exactly like I predicted, you can go look at your stats if you want. What this means is that you are kidding yourself, common problem with snipers. If what your really said was true, then I'd expect you to have a higher accuracy with stationary targets and a much better overall accuracy than 50%...that is unless you only shoot moving targets. Originally Posted by SVD_Sniper
Secondly, we are talking about two different guns. When I made my point I only considered the stock rifles, but from reading your post you must be talking about the zeller...because 1AR round + 1 stock sniper round does not equal a kill unless it's the Zeller. Now this is almost laughable that you'd consider the "soften targets up" method with the zeller because of its 3 round clip and slowest reload/refire time.
And I'd love to do a 2 man squad with you...we can even use the private 3rd server and I will bring some friends. We can test your theory in a completely controled enviornment if you still honestly think this is a good tactic. PM me when you're free.Shhhh I'm being made
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08-03-2007, 11:44 AM #146
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Re: Sniper + Squad
That sounds like good fun
My internet at home is currently down (forgot to pay the bill, whoops ) but the first thing Ill do when its back up is dust off my rifle...
My stats... I would have thought it obvious that global stats do not really represent much, but are infact merely indicators.
for example, the sniping accurracy stats - they are not current, they are from all the rounds ive ever fired. As I have played more, I have become more skilled and more accurrate. This means that each time I play, my accurracy and KDR with each weapon is improved slightly. When I first played, my KDR was less than 1 and my accurracy less than 10% (total guess). I have recently had better results which slowly drive the stats up. It takes a huge amount of time to totally iron out (render insignificant) the noobish shots and subsequent misses you made. Also, trying to shoot drivers out of favs speeding along 200m away (and missing) doesnt help your acc. stats. (BTW, compare my baur and voss stats, I find them particularly amusing)
The zeller comment is fair enough, however as I said to SharinganTH1422, the point is it takes fewer rounds to kill a guy at 20HP than 100. If thats actually 30 HP or w/e it doesnt eally matter, 1 round or 2 from an AR, happens really fast either way.I use the 3 call rule: If I ask you for ammo/health/repairs 3 times and you just stand there and look at me, im TK'ing you and taking what I need.
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08-03-2007, 12:14 PM #147
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Re: Sniper + Squad
I really don't know why people cling to the idea that chest shots from afar in a squad on squad conflict are worth a damn. Clearly I'm not getting through on some point so let me try it from this angle.
Ask yourself this, how long does it take for an AR to drop a guy at full health?
How long does it take an AR to take you down half health?
Basically what you need to understand is that it takes only a fraction of a second. Your shooting him with a sniper rifle has saved him 2-3 bullets, one burst.
Now think about this, what is the rate at which AR can burst fire? How fast can you fire you sniper rifle?....(I hope you see where I am going with this).
Basically if the assault is capable of putting bullets on target, he is cause a lot more damage at a much faster rate than you are as a sniper (unless you shoot target in the head). Now, the more assaults in the conflict, the greater the disparity.
Which brings me back to head shots only. If you get a kill there is a high chance that another assault will move in for a revive...bingo! two guys not killing your teammates AND you have drawn one into a fire lane--if you know the guys who are playing and can tell who the SL is, hit him, chances are you will draw atleast two defibers.
Basically you are selectivly NOT killing them. I'm not saying don't take body shots when you can't hit their head...I'm just wondering why you'd bother just softening them up when you can take them down. It seems silly to me that you'd do that.
About the accuracy thing. I play sniper a lot, I pay attention to how other snipers are doing...I rarely see accuracies above 65% in a round, and never consistantly from anyone.Shhhh I'm being made
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08-03-2007, 01:59 PM #148
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Re: Sniper + Squad
There was a crazy spout of rounds probably a week ago where I was putting 60% + up for 2 or 3 maps. Heh, I checked my Zeller stats earlier, and my accuracy blows! I barely ever use it anymore, and when I do, its usually for fun trying to kill guys that are barely not in the fog. Originally Posted by Guardianx11x
To try and run another rout of what Guardian is trying to get across, here's this:
Your a sniper, your main weapon is the single strongest bullet based weapon in game, allowing you to take out targets in one shot without giving away position and whatnot. You have nothing in your kit to directly aid other players other than your explosives and pistol. You can't revive, resupply or repair. All you can do is kill, kill, kill. So you should do so as fast and often as possible, ie, headshot people and take one soldier off the field without question. If you really wanna make a difference, shoot people who are away from others so they can't easily be revived, costing their team a ticket.
When I SL and play sniper, I'll come across enemy squads take one or two guys down then tell my squad to rocket the waypoint I place on the enemies to be sure that they won't easily be revived.
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08-03-2007, 02:38 PM #149
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Re: Sniper + Squad
Exactly my point. Anospa is as good a shot as any, and he describes 2-3 rounds with that accuracy as "crazy". Originally Posted by Anospa
I'd just like to add on that I feel part of your purpose is to manage your enemy, knock out the guys trying to toss grenades or fire rockets. Things that will cause massive damage to your squad.Your a sniper, your main weapon is the single strongest bullet based weapon in game, allowing you to take out targets in one shot without giving away position and whatnot. You have nothing in your kit to directly aid other players other than your explosives and pistol. You can't revive, resupply or repair. All you can do is kill, kill, kill. So you should do so as fast and often as possible, ie, headshot people and take one soldier off the field without question. If you really wanna make a difference, shoot people who are away from others so they can't easily be revived, costing their team a ticket.
When I SL and play sniper, I'll come across enemy squads take one or two guys down then tell my squad to rocket the waypoint I place on the enemies to be sure that they won't easily be revived.Shhhh I'm being made
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08-03-2007, 02:41 PM #150
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Re: Sniper + Squad
Aye, you'd be doing the most help by taking out targets of opportunity/exposure and high priority threats.
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