Re: The importance of Recon

**Damonte** · 01-20-2008, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by SithJedi

When I am spec-ops, I like placing traps at flags. Several rounds, I will place rdx around stragetic flags and accompany my squad leader as he moves to the next objective. If hat flag falls, I immediately switch to my detonaer and frequently kills upwards to 4 soldiers.

So you kill four members of a six person squad. Then two remaining assaults revive their fallen comrades and the flag still falls (and if they are not assaults, it's just a moment to kit swap).

In the end, all that has been done is marginally delay the capture of a flag.

**Adaxa** · 01-20-2008, 11:20 PM

But doesn't RDX in close range KILL a person, rendering them incapable of reviving?

**Guardianx11x** · 01-20-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by SithJedi

You won't be able to do that with me. I hardly ever die as a recon soldier and they always try to get until their head falls to the ground. I always wait paiently to make a good shot. When I am spec-ops, I like placing traps at flags. Several rounds, I will place rdx around stragetic flags and accompany my squad leader as he moves to the next objective. If hat flag falls, I immediately switch to my detonaer and frequently kills upwards to 4 soldiers.

I think that is the sort of mentality snipers need to avoid. Waiting patiently for a good shot is stupid. Snipers can't hide in 2142 effectivly, so if you are waiting and not getting killed.....its cause you are doing so poorly that nobody cares about you. My style is Run 'n Gun, quick imperfect shots. This allows me to move with my squad. Honestly, after all the time I've spent with sniping in 2142 this is the best solution. Even I sometimes doubt my own effectiveness...

Comon guys you have seen how good I am at recon

I haven't seen you. However you should talk to the people who SL at TG often. As far as I know, I'm the only player they request to play sniper in game (in fact I've been told this)....maybe that means I'm doing something right. What it also means is that they recognize the the role can be useful...however it is widely abused and glorified by people who delude themselves into thinking they are doing a good job. If you find yourself prone for more than 30 sec. you are not doing your team any good.

**Icehawk217** · 01-20-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Adaxa

But doesn't RDX in close range KILL a person, rendering them incapable of reviving?

Not normally, usually everyone can be revived after an RDX. If you get the killed screen, it may be a glitch. I have also had the killed screen but been revived. Never after going to the out of body sort of camera view though.

Overall, it may slow a squad but will rarely defeat it.

**Augustus Gloop** · 01-21-2008, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by SithJedi

You won't be able to do that with me. I hardly ever die as a recon soldier and they always try to get until their head falls to the ground. I always wait paiently to make a good shot. When I am spec-ops, I like placing traps at flags. Several rounds, I will place rdx around stragetic flags and accompany my squad leader as he moves to the next objective. If hat flag falls, I immediately switch to my detonaer and frequently kills upwards to 4 soldiers.

Comon guys you have seen how good I am at recon

The end of all of this is that you feel you're playing a teamwork oriented game, and everyone else is trying to tell you that they feel you'd be much more useful in a different role.

Rather than add one more voice to the "Sniper BAD" crowd (although I do number among them) the important thing is that you feel like you are aiding your team in the best way you possibly can. Ask your SL's permission to play sniper, absolutely follow your SL's orders, and ask permission to initiate actions like infiltrating the ucb to blow assets. As long as you are a teamwork sniper and not playing it to fufill selfish visions of glory, then ignore everyone else on here and show us how sniper is done.

**Cowtipper** · 01-21-2008, 07:31 AM

Ahhhh finally someone realizes that snipers deserver more credit than they get right now..

(I haven´t taken time to read the replies.. Just the first post)

It´s right, Spec Ops can be excellent teamplayers if you know how to do it. I sometimes request permission to go on a suicide mission. Most of the time I´m successfull (if I don´t get teamkilled because I´m invisible and theres enemies all around me...)

Originally Posted by Damonte

So you kill four members of a six person squad. Then two remaining assaults revive their fallen comrades and the flag still falls (and if they are not assaults, it's just a moment to kit swap).

In the end, all that has been done is marginally delay the capture of a flag.

But that explosion might be the signal to the squad that they should advance quickly and kill the remaining two! It could be an effective tactic if used with precision!

**MDFubar** · 01-21-2008, 08:25 AM

Recon and sniper have two different roles here. Recon with the Lambert and RDX, is not a bad mix with a squad. Snipers, very rarely useful in my squads.

**No0be<Ninja>** · 01-21-2008, 09:52 AM

Snipers can be used to take down important members of an enemy squad (if only a few are medics). Good snipers can probably take out the majority of a squad (SL first, medics, and everyone else assuming everyones not a medic). Although snipers are pretty much useless in alot of squad situations, including attacking flags and etc, they arnt all useless. as a sniper i usually use rdx and camo, so in tight situations, i can help out a bit. but in my opinion, snipers arent used enough!

**Adaxa** · 01-21-2008, 09:58 AM

True, snipers can take out key squad members and spot, but that's about it IMO. I personally favor the Special Ops kinda dude. I can destroy assets, infiltrate enemy bases and capture them, set traps with rdx or apm, depending on which ones I choose, and as a last resort, blow up vehicles.

**Tarenth** · 01-21-2008, 01:43 PM

There is a vast difference between the loadout of a sniper and the recon playstyle of the recon class.

If you're getting the two confused then you've missed the point by a significant margin.

Recon = good
Combat Sniper/Marksman = good
'l33t sniper' = bad

On a side note: I think the only time you can say "You've all seen how good I am as a sniper" is if you're sporting the red/black and double red ribbons of the Spec Op and Sniper specialists. See Guardian's ribbon rack for why we all respect his opinion on snipers and combat sniper differences.

**SithJedi** · 01-21-2008, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cowtipper

Ahhhh finally someone realizes that snipers deserver more credit than they get right now..

(I haven´t taken time to read the replies.. Just the first post)

It´s right, Spec Ops can be excellent teamplayers if you know how to do it. I sometimes request permission to go on a suicide mission. Most of the time I´m successfull (if I don´t get teamkilled because I´m invisible and theres enemies all around me...)

But that explosion might be the signal to the squad that they should advance quickly and kill the remaining two! It could be an effective tactic if used with precision!

Exactly! Also for the person said that the reason I hardly ever get killed is that I am doing poroly, that is a joke. My accuracy on average is 70% to 90% when being a sniper. I stay in high-traffic areas and still mange to surivive with a good and steady hand. I also stay on the move whenever detected.

**MDFubar** · 01-21-2008, 03:19 PM

Your k/D ratio would show that you have killed more with the sniper rifles than you have been killed. That being said, if you play the Tg server this would just be normal as no one really uses this and you would be killed by other weapons. Your accuracy with the sniper rifles is good and your ability to kill with these weapons is not in question. The point that most have been trying to make is that a "Sniper" is not very effective in the squad unless there is a specific reason to have one.
Most of the time the squads are on the move, for you to say that you stick with the squads and move with them would be contradicting yourself with previous statements.
You have more kills using the other weapons than you do with the sniper rifles. In a squad, you would be more effective with a different weapon and the load-out that your SL has asked for.
I have personally revived more than one person that was shot by a sniper and I have not been killed doing so. To each his own, but I can tell you this.....if you are in my squad and you revive me and I get your kit and it is a sniper, you will not be happy with the things that I have to say nor will you be in my squad anymore.
I used to snipe alot in BF2 and was very successful, stood behind the kit all the way. This game is different and playing the TG way is much different, with the teamwork that you come accross in our server on a daily basis the sniper kit is just about useless...with a few exceptions.

Glad to hear the opinions on this.....again

Again the clarification between sniper and recon must be recognized.

**nuckj** · 01-21-2008, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by SithJedi

I was with my squad. I was not following orders from my SL because I believe that Recons have two ways of following orders: Situational(What is going on right now) and long-term(what you expect to happen in a match).

This is the part that I think everyone would have a problem with according to TG standards. There is no excuse for not following orders. By coming up with your own plan and disregarding SL orders you are breaking a fundamental TG rule. Regardless of how you believe recons have their own way of following orders, if you are disregarding direct SL orders, then you are not playing the TG way. Long term: expect to be reported to an admin.

**Guardianx11x** · 01-21-2008, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by SithJedi

Exactly! Also for the person said that the reason I hardly ever get killed is that I am doing poroly, that is a joke. My accuracy on average is 70% to 90% when being a sniper. I stay in high-traffic areas and still mange to surivive with a good and steady hand. I also stay on the move whenever detected.

Ok, I don't think it's a joke. My accuracy is usually between 50-70%. If it gets any higher I know it was a lucky game...or I did a bad job. High accuracy means you are being far too selective about your shots.

Example of what I mean sith....I can hide in a "high-traffic" area, wait for a few really simple shots, get 100% accuracy, 10 kills, and zero deaths. My game is much more wild. I run with the squad, take crazy ass shots (anything I can), get lower accuracy. Die 2-5 times depending on who my medics are. However, at the end of the game I usually have nearly 40% more kills than the next best sniper. And make no mistake about it, the sniper role is all about killing. If you arent consistantly getting in the top five guys in terms of number of kills...you need to switch your role or change up what you're doing.

**Augustus Gloop** · 01-21-2008, 06:14 PM

Guardian has been EXTREMELY effective in our low pop ladder matches. He takes the commander role, and singlehandedly covers the back flag. His sniping and RDX at the flag gives the rest of the team time to send help when the enemy comes, but we do not expect him to defend the flag by himself. He has successfully headshotted three to four enemies before they could revive themselves, but there was always backup coming in case he got in trouble.

Occasionally snipers are indespensible when they are a part of the overall strategy. Guardian once won a game with a single headshot when an enemy wandered too far away to be revived.

A case has been made for the SL to be a recon sniper. The SL has the option to play a behind the lines role, and Silver showed us that an invisible SL can be devastating in high traffic areas.

SithJedi, I recommend you work your sniper role into the squad rather than try and be a movie hero sniper.

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