Icehawk217

Its still the TG mindset, not just for 2142. The whole point is to play tactically and if a sniper fits in then it is the TG way. If it is not tactically sound or useful, being a sniper would go against the TG way. And this can happen in any game, not just 2142.

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"Give a man a match and he'll be warm for a minute. Light the man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life"

Anospa

My this thread got interesting. I can honestly backup all of Guardian's statements. There are only a few people that I will outright say are better snipers than me, and he's one of the first to come to mind. The gameplay that has developed here at TG is just way too fast paced and focused on the assault kit to make a stationary sniper be of any use in a squad. If you go onto a pub server, where people aren't cohesive, and 85% of the teams are not medics, then you can become much more effective as a camping sniper, but that isn't what we're talking about. As Guardian pointed out, that kill is great; its a downed soldier, who's not shooting, he's calling for a medic, thats possibly one or more other people coming to revive him. It gives your squad just that bit more of an advantage while moving in on a flag or whatnot.

The thing about the sniper rifles in this game is that they are not effective enough to be used for body shots. Think about it: you have a very high damaging rifle, but it shoots very slowly. For most encounters in this game, you're fighting 100m or less. A voss can still be decently used at this range. If you hit a person in the chest with a shot, they're at roughly half health. In the second of time you are waiting to chamber the round, they have already shot off at least 3-4 shots, so the chances that you'll survive significantly decrease.

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Arithea

Please leave off the inflammatory remarks. This thread has been remarkably anti-inflammatory for the apparently sensitive nature of the topic at hand; I wouldn't want to be associated with a post that changes that.

I like to think my mindset is pretty well in line with the overall TG mindset for Battlefield 2142, as it's the only TG-sponsored game I play on a regular basis. I make no assumptions about the effectiveness of recon or sniper classes in other TG-sponsored games, where the teamwork situation is different. I'm sorry if you read that into my last post, as it was not intended.

I think that's where I'll be leaving this thread. Xen, if you want a clarification on anything I've posted, since you appear to be offended, please PM me.

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Crux

Dude are you serious? For starters, each game community within TG develops its own set of tactics for that game. What works tactically in Call of Duty is VERY different from what works in BF2142.

Given this, most of your comment is irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether or not a sniper/recon/specops proved useful for a BF2/COD/Armed Assault/PR/PoE2. Since we are talking about 2142, what matters is what works best for 2142.

Taking a recon with every squad is a complete and total mis-use of resources. With revives as prevalent and possible as they are, I can honestly say only 1 in perhaps 50 people I see sniping on our server actually have any appreciable effect on the outcome of the match in any way. and that's being generous. Most of the snipers have zero net effect. If they took *any* kit other than recon with sniper rifle they would be far more effective.

So then let's look at the lambert. Not too bad for CQB, but still inferior to weapons available in every other kit. Yes, the engineer smg can be superior to the lambert in CQB. So, while you are mildly more useful than a sniper as a whole, you are still far less useful than every other kit.

So the question really becomes this: why are you trying to force *your* mindset from another game onto this game? The community is right here telling you that in 2142, recons *tend* to be significantly less useful than other kits. This is a simple truth. They can be effective, but only in limited numbers and only in the hands of someone very skilled with the kit. They are not a necessity for every squad, and in truth the quality of gameplay on our server would be better if people would stop thinking them sniping 10 random guys a round 8 of which get revived somehow is helping the team.

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Damonte

But Crux, everyone knows that a sniper on the monorail in Belgrade can wreak horrible havoc on squads trying to capture Com Tower, Playground or Statue! Seriously, what are you thinking!?

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Reaperassault

Raz never said in one clip and I know I can't take 6 guys with one clip on an AR that would be aimbot like, maybe one clip with the clark if I'm lucky. I go through amo like a heroin addict, lots of grenades.

taking out people is about a few things but mainly: 1. being a decent shot 2. maneuvering around well (which leads to surviving more often) 3. knowing when to run away (make them lose their tickets and don't lose yours and if you are lucky they will follow and you can set a decent trap if you know where they are coming from) 4. using what you have, whether that be a recon kit with some RDX that you have or rockets or a pistol, just make sure you do everything you can to stop people

sure rockets are easy to dodge, you just have to know what you are doing i.e. changing distances quickly, which can be hard but its a great skill to learn

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Tarenth

What that one sniper can do an assault medic with rockets can do better. I do believe Bommando is the most popular name that comes to mind with that strategy. Ergo, the Anti-Bommando Rocket Strategy was born.


BTW, Xen? You can't revive downed players in all TG sponsored games so trying to employ strategies from those games to BF-2142 is folly.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Reaperassault

Xen I'm afraid you have missed the points here, snipers are great with certain types of games but for the fast paced 2142 here at TG where a man (or girl, shini & Ari) can be revived, save for a direct hit with a AV round, in general snipers have proven to have a dulled effect on overall gameplay. there are circumstances where recon/sniper is best for the job but in general the sniper class is just too slow for the pace of the game, plus there is no where to hide as a sniper the lack of camouflage is very apparent in this game (just look at the PAC uniforms).

games without revives CoD4 or CS:S heck even PR on some levels and a little bit of PoE snipers can be devastating and game altering. Their weapons are very strong and accurate, I wish I had one.

2142 is a special case here at TG and each of the diverse games we have here need to be played differently in order to achieve the greatest amount of teamwork from them.

I'm sorry if I've made people cry in this thread but I still stand by my words and experiences for this game here at TG.

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Augustus Gloop

Xen, that was pretty uncharitable. I've never given negative rep, but that's about as close as I've come. A discussion of snipers in a 2142 tactics forum is pretty likely to be about snipers in 2142.

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Bagheera

This can be done by any good player, regardless of kit. A recon kit's legs aren't made of concrete, and neither are my assault kit's legs. Either one of them dodges rocket blasts (the sniper/recon kit just happens to clip one or two headshots, THEN RUNS.) Either one of them also runs WITH the squad and contributes to the squad.

That being said, there are recon players who play as if their legs are made of concrete, and I wholeheartedly agree that they are NOT contributing to their team.

Crux

It comes down to timeframes, Bagheera. Yes, a sniper can get 6 kills with 1 clip. If they don't miss a shot. But, how long does this honestly take? It is the very, very rare sniper indeed who can taken down a squad of non-bots with one clip. In fact I've never met such a sniper, and I've met two snipers who are about as good as human beings can be at it in a computer game (Guardian and Santa).

So yes a sniper can get 6 kills. But will *never* kill an entire squad unless we hold a night where Stephen Hawking gets to play with 5 of his buddies. An assault can truly wipe out an entire squad with rockets + assault rifle (ignoring grenades for a moment here as they are common to all kits).

Don't get me wrong, I love to snipe. But I recognize that in 2142 they are next to useless against any sort of an organized team. It is the kit for people who would rather focus on getting kills than on winning. For the guy who thinks he is something special and that *he* is the only sniper who makes a difference. News flash. You don't. That's the simple truth.

There is really only 3 circumstances in which a recon can be consistently helpful in 2142 (as in by doing something another kit could not do in their stead and do better).

1) Blowing up enemy commander assets
2) Acting as a part of a squad running an Otus
3) Sneaking behind enemy lines to capture a back flag

In each of these instances, the recon offers something that they do better than any other kit. However it is important to note something: 2 of these 3 are scenario-specific. Once they have completed that very specific action, they go back to being generally less useful to the squad than another kit. Only in scenario #2 would the recon remain useful for an entire round.

So, that said... what are *you* doing as a recon to help your team? (please note that the "you" in that last sentence is not directed at anyone in particular. It is a general 'you' directed at everyone who obsesses over thinking they are somehow making a difference playing recon all the time).

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Augustus Gloop

I guarantee with his brain and the bio-feedback capabilities of his chair that he wipes the floor with us.

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Bagheera

Again, we're looking at a solo sniper vs. a full squad. How effective is a solo assault vs. a full squad? Not very, unless it's a very dumb squad that huddles together 100% of the time, and is blown to bits by not 1, but 3 rockets typically, and that's after NOT moving after getting hit by the first rocket. However, there have been many times that an entire squad HAS been blown up by a single recon player, by strategically spreading out RDX amongst cappables and choke points (titan hallways, any flag, etc.) My favorite is to place RDX on the flag at toll, at several places (on the flag, a bit back between the gas tanks, and on both sides of the barriers), and have been successful numerous times in wiping out a squad that THOUGHT they were well spread out. Guess what? So were my RDXs. However, that's while defending, and knowing that while revives are great and all, so is ambush in those situations.

Sniper in squad is very effective when there is a mix of encounter ranges, including long range (such as Berlin, Sidi, Suez, among others), as compared to all assaults at those ranges. CQB such as Gibraltar, sniper in a squad is marginally effective in a squad unless the situation changes to a standoff, such as at the toll, or at the EU base. In all but standoff situations at Gibraltar, I play the kit that works best for me, which is assault medic with shotty. When it changes, I either pick up a new kit that suits the situation better or change upon my next unrevived death.

I love to snipe too, but I only do it when I know I'm contributing to my team, and only do it as part of a squad's plan.

Augustus Gloop

I think that pretty much every angle on this argument has been explored. Since negative rep is starting to be handed out, let's let this one cool down for a while before taking it up again. (I know we'll be discussing snipers again at some point).

Please only post if you somehow have a fresh, original viewpoint to add, and do NOT post if you just want to restate points already made, or say "Yeah, what he/she/they said."

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Xen

Augustus, I thank you for trying to keep this mature. But, I have to repond to the people who neg rep me, because I reponded to someone saying the community as a whole in TG feels this way about recon. Which I completely disagree with. Maybe here in the 2142 forums this sentiment rings true, but TG2142 is not the entire TG community. I was not trying to flame anyone but ask, IMO, a serious question about peoples veiw of the TG community as a whole. And, it must be serious if the knee jerk response is to neg rep as soon as someone questions general descriptive statments about the community.

With that said. I think people need to seriously look at what I have said. I've tried again and again in this thread and others to show that working and moving with a squad, Recon can be tactically benifitial to the game as a whole. Either way, in the end, TG is a dynamic community that has a lot of differing veiws on how things can be done tactically.

::steps off the Soapbox::

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Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.