Re: The importance of Recon

**Reaperassault** · 02-11-2008, 03:12 PM

I swear the only sniper rifle I die from is the stupid zeller, I have more deaths with that thing than the park and moretti combined

**SKsniper128** · 02-11-2008, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Reaperassault

I swear the only sniper rifle I die from is the stupid zeller, I have more deaths with that thing than the park and moretti combined

That could be summed up in one word.

Ego.

I's an award rifle, the guy has a sense of pride that he took the time to work and get the rifle. I do it too, personally it's just because of the damage boost rather than anything else.

**Adaxa** · 02-11-2008, 05:02 PM

What I want to ask is this-

Is the recent influx of snipers/recon on the TG server due to pubbies or this thread? Because a couple of days or a week after this thread started going, there was a noticeable increase in recon users IMO. Not that I'm complaining or anything, it's just that when I started playing on this server I would find verry little recons playing, mainly the tried n' true "assault MEDIC!!!".

**Lorax74** · 02-11-2008, 05:12 PM

I would contribute it to the scripts being off, but there are many a days where the server seems inundated with pub snipers littered throughout the map.

**JRiop1** · 03-22-2008, 12:49 AM

Myself, I like to go sniper every now and then. I've managed to unlock most of both trees, so I have gear from both sides. I'm not so good with the Lambert. In my opinion, if you are going to be getting up close and personal, use the Clark.

So talking about the sniper rifles. I think that a soldier can be pretty effective sniping on the run. I mean that the guy runs with the squad and takes out those pesky rocket-shooters who are always hiding, for example. This way, a sniper can still use his awesome sniper rifle and still be able to stay with the squad.

**MDFubar** · 03-22-2008, 09:07 AM

Nice thought, but the rocket dude you just killed also just got revived and you shot was wasted. Unless he was lone-wolfing, which you won't find much of on TG. I have been shot by many a sniper, just to be revived and go kill that son of a ....

**DunNa** · 03-22-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by MDFubar

Nice thought, but the rocket dude you just killed also just got revived and you shot was wasted. Unless he was lone-wolfing, which you won't find much of on TG. I have been shot by many a sniper, just to be revived and go kill that son of a ....

So why doesn't the sniper just shoot you again, and again, and again, and again... Up to five times to be exact before they have to reload. I think they will have to cooldown there defibs before I run out of ammo

I also have to wonder what exactly my squads doing while I have your squad locked down by just my actions alone.

Some examples of whats possible for various maps.
Tunis: Snipers can easily cover the barge crossing probably killing a person or two and completely alerting there squad to it. Normally they can also snipe into afew other areas, depending on where they are.
Berlin: Great on the EU side, they can lock down north or south pretty good with use of APMs and there rifle. To top it off they can hang back farther and more or less not be pulling medics all day like a support might.
Cerbere: As PAC assaulting church, a sniper can make ALOT of difference if the snow up there is filled with EU. This is also a good map for mine sniping with the Zheller. Snipe the mines blocking the main road and have your jeep go flying by the whole team leaving them to bitch at there engineers going I THOUGHT YOU MINED THERE!!!!
Sidi: All those back bases are sniper heaven for both teams. RDX+Stabalizer+Zheller and you are set. Zheller allows you to pop mines for your team from a very safe distance, RDX allows you to stop charging armor and it can't be baited away. Oh and you can start sniping and holding down enemy squads, then there is also the plethora of engineers that just stand around going "take my head off please".
Tampa: Recon in general is just awesome on Tampa. Lots of infantry not worrying about APMs, lots of armor not watching there own backs often, big open spaces and lots of angles to shoot from. Snipers will give your team free armor sniping random dudes jumping out to repair. Oh and again, mine removal with the Zheller.
Belgrade: This is another amazing map for recon, you have lots of nice little flanking routes to use, lots of hallways to APM, good sniping spots all over the place, and some armor that can easily get caught up where it can't easily move around (RDX food). This map is also a great map to attack the command assets on, taking down the orbital (and keeping it down) can really win your team the map if you have decent drivers.

I think thats enough for map specific lets talk about just in general recon fun.
BASE RAPING! Recons are the only class that can really do it in on a TG server. Get a three man squad (medic, support, recon) and go give there commander hell. Playing by TG rules you can't steal there armor but you can atleast blow it up just like the other assets

Ideally the medic grabs a jeep and drives the recon/support asset destruction squad duo around. If the map has no jeeps, no biggy you just have to leg it around and your medic has to be super stealthy.
Throw down a beacon abit outside there base and just keep ruining the commanders day. Eventually you will either get a squad or two on you and ownt, or you will win your team the game almost single handedly. Also note that if your pulling a full squad or two back to there main base your teams squads should easily be able to wreck some havoc in the actual fighting (specially since all the assets are down by now).

I am just abit of a recon fiend I guess and I love blowing **** up, but theres a real stigma around TG that most "random" squads should consist of 5 medics and a support guy, and win through starting up the ressing circle jerk tsunami. Which while that can work, theres more than one way to get something done.

**Lorax74** · 03-22-2008, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by DunNa

I think thats enough for map specific lets talk about just in general recon fun.
BASE RAPING! Recons are the only class that can really do it in on a TG server.

No class can do this on the TG server.

Originally Posted by DunNa

Playing by TG rules you can't steal there armor but you can atleast blow it up just like the other assets

No, you can't. Playing by TG rules means you do NOT enter the base in an attempt to destroy armor. Playing be the TG rules means you enter the base to destroy assets.

**MDFubar** · 03-22-2008, 12:09 PM

I would have to say that you haven't played on our server much. There are so many discussions about this topic and so many arguments about why and why not the sniper is useful, that it should not be started again. Think what you think, play what you will, and enjoy the game.

**DunNa** · 03-22-2008, 05:21 PM

How is a walker or tank not an asset? If I can blow them up when occupied why not when empty. I know I can't take them and use them since I just blow them up. I have been doing similar things on your server for awhile now and I play semi often. Nobody has ever said a thing to me about blowing up freshly spawned armor in main bases.

Also the comment about base raping should have been in quotes since its not true base raping as in spawn camping. You run in blow the assets, evade, and continue to keep the assets down. If you can't do that, why even bother having assets in the first place. Its also pointless to work so hard to sneak into a base and blow the assets only to have to flee and so you don't break and arbitrary rule. Specially since the commander can have those assets back up in seconds since hes probably an engie IN the UCB.

I am not saying to spawn camp, I am not saying to steal UCB armor. I am talking about blowing up assets (including armor) and keeping them down, not using any exploitative methods such as high beacons, or suicide RDX, just simple plain old run in blow **** up and keep them blown up.
If there is rules aginst that I'm sorry I guess I wouln't be playing on your server anymore and tell my friends to avoid it aswell, since it goes strictly aginst what you preach (fair and tactical gameplay).

As for your comment Fubar, I would like to play what I want but everyone and there mother seems to think the only way to play is voss/rockets/defibs with a random IDS support. Anything outside of that is considered "anti-TG" by a good portion of the community from what I have seen. If I go and snipe (even going as far to make a sniping squad) I am just a loan wolf *******. Appearently if I go Lambert I am completely breaking the rules unless I run around as a gimpy assault who can't res or heal.
I've done great work for my team as a sniper or a lambert (well appearently my lambert use is completely aginst the rules). I've kept near the top of the score boards, and held of entire squads for extended periods of time with only 1-2 people helping.
I am not saying the recon is the end all be all of 2142 playing, but they have a good and effective role, and there shouldn't be this huge stigma aginst them.

I also posted directly into a threat that seemed rather fresh, there was no necromancy and there was no "new bitchy post" just a straight up addition to a pre-existing thread.

**Deathblade1065** · 03-22-2008, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by DunNa

As for your comment Fubar, I would like to play what I want but everyone and there mother seems to think the only way to play is voss/rockets/defibs with a random IDS support. Anything outside of that is considered "anti-TG" by a good portion of the community from what I have seen. If I go and snipe (even going as far to make a sniping squad) I am just a loan wolf *******. Appearently if I go Lambert I am completely breaking the rules unless I run around as a gimpy assault who can't res or heal.
I've done great work for my team as a sniper or a lambert (well appearently my lambert use is completely aginst the rules). I've kept near the top of the score boards, and held of entire squads for extended periods of time with only 1-2 people helping.
I am not saying the recon is the end all be all of 2142 playing, but they have a good and effective role, and there shouldn't be this huge stigma aginst them.

I've seen plenty of sniping squads. They aren't the usual on the server, and it's not because that's the way TG wants it to be. A lot of the players play as support/assault/engineer because they like playing as that. No one said that using the Lambert was against the rules either. Also, the reason most squads consist of Assault medics with a support or engi is because it works. You're prepared for anything then.

**Augustus Gloop** · 03-22-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by DunNa

How is a walker or tank not an asset? If I can blow them up when occupied why not when empty. I know I can't take them and use them since I just blow them up. I have been doing similar things on your server for awhile now and I play semi often. Nobody has ever said a thing to me about blowing up freshly spawned armor in main bases.

There is almost no point to doing this, because the armor respawns VERY quickly. It's reasonable to think the reason no one complained is because no one noticed.

Originally Posted by DunNa

I am not saying to spawn camp, I am not saying to steal UCB armor. I am talking about blowing up assets (including armor) and keeping them down, not using any exploitative methods such as high beacons, or suicide RDX, just simple plain old run in blow **** up and keep them blown up.
If there is rules aginst that I'm sorry I guess I wouln't be playing on your server anymore and tell my friends to avoid it aswell, since it goes strictly aginst what you preach (fair and tactical gameplay).

Aside from blowing up empty armor, which we would like you to not do, you have exactly the right idea here.

Originally Posted by DunNa

As for your comment Fubar, I would like to play what I want but everyone and there mother seems to think the only way to play is voss/rockets/defibs with a random IDS support. Anything outside of that is considered "anti-TG" by a good portion of the community from what I have seen. If I go and snipe (even going as far to make a sniping squad) I am just a loan wolf *******. Appearently if I go Lambert I am completely breaking the rules unless I run around as a gimpy assault who can't res or heal.
I've done great work for my team as a sniper or a lambert (well appearently my lambert use is completely aginst the rules). I've kept near the top of the score boards, and held of entire squads for extended periods of time with only 1-2 people helping.
I am not saying the recon is the end all be all of 2142 playing, but they have a good and effective role, and there shouldn't be this huge stigma aginst them.

No one except your SL or Commander can tell you what is or isn't teamwork. The majority opinion here is that snipers don't contribute as much teamwork as other classes, but that doesn't mean you can't continue to use them to support your team. Ask yourself if you are contributing to the success of your team the best way possible. If the answer is yes, you're doing the right thing. However, whatever your personal opinion, your SL and Commander have the final say in each map.

Originally Posted by DunNa

I also posted directly into a threat that seemed rather fresh, there was no necromancy and there was no "new bitchy post" just a straight up addition to a pre-existing thread.

People like it when you take the time to research your opinion to see if it has been expressed before (which to my mind, it has) but that doesn't mean you can't continue the discussion. New people join TG all the time and I occasionally bring back threads about all kinds of (to me) prehistoric tactics and attitudes because it's the first time a lot of them have ever been exposed to the idea. This topic tends to be a little volatile because it tends to be the "new blood vs the old blood", but that doesn't mean it isn't worth having again now and then.

**Lorax74** · 03-22-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by DunNa

How is a walker or tank not an asset? If I can blow them up when occupied why not when empty. I know I can't take them and use them since I just blow them up. I have been doing similar things on your server for awhile now and I play semi often. Nobody has ever said a thing to me about blowing up freshly spawned armor in main bases.

I guess you haven't read the server rules then? It is stated very clearly there with no room for misinterpretation:

Originally Posted by UCB Assaults

vehicles within the UCB are OFF LIMITS

Because you have not been caught or reporting for doing this does not mean it is ok. Consider this your notice, should you continue and get caught or reported, it will result in a ban.

**DunNa** · 03-22-2008, 11:26 PM

Maybe the rule should be amended to allow destruction of vehicles? I am not using the vehicles, I am not touching the vehicles, I am merely throwing some RDX on them

It directly relates to keeping the assets down even if for whatever reason you don't consider armor an asset. If say an enemy jumps in that walker we leave up, we are basicly screwed in trying to keep the assets down. Unless the walker driver happens to be a completely failure as a driver.

The rules also mentioned no mines in the base, does this mean I am not allowed to put down APMs to help keep Orbitals down? As in I put the APMs near the orbital asset so when they come to repair they get blasted.
A good example of this is Cereb, the PAC orbital is right there at a corner with alot of little places to tuck APMs in to kill would be repairers. Does this mean putting APMs there is a big no no? By doing something like that you can effectively leave the orbital unguarded for abit to get hit another asset such as the UAV or Sat.

Most of your rules make plenty of sense but this is just coming off as supremely arbitrary. I understand the need and desire to stop spawn camping but at the same time this spawn has alot of assets that a ripe for fiery destruction, I consider things like high beacons to be exploits and understand rules along those lines that deal with exploits. Though this isn't an exploit, there is good reason to blow up those things (including the armor). Specially say the walker on Cereb or Tunis, every minute the enemy doesn't have the walker is alot of tickets saved.
Now I could possibly see this coming into fair play rules, but they are leaving there base completely unguarded, leaving the walker or whatever else just laying there. Shouldn't they be punished by such tactical blunders? If they are allowing Recons and Supports into there main base to blow stuff up don't they deserve to wait an extra minute or two to get that walker?

the reason most squads consist of Assault medics with a support or engi is because it works. You're prepared for anything then.

My point is, is that having a lambert or two in there WORKS. You don't need 5 medics having a defibbing circle jerk. Though the 4+ medic squads are the norm and recons of any sort are seen as an abomination to TG kind by most SLs I've had the chance to play with. I don't mind playing medic, support, or even engie infact I generally do. Though there are certain cases where a lambert would be all around superior to a fifth or sixith medic.

**Lorax74** · 03-23-2008, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by DunNa

Maybe the rule should be amended to allow destruction of vehicles? I am not using the vehicles, I am not touching the vehicles, I am merely throwing some RDX on them

It directly relates to keeping the assets down even if for whatever reason you don't consider armor an asset. If say an enemy jumps in that walker we leave up, we are basicly screwed in trying to keep the assets down. Unless the walker driver happens to be a completely failure as a driver.

From the rules:

Originally Posted by Server Rules

These acts are restricted not to deny valid real-life tactics, but to ensure the quality of game play. Rule #2 must be a simple and clear rule that is easily adminstered and does not vary on a map-by-map basis.

Originally Posted by DunNa

The rules also mentioned no mines in the base, does this mean I am not allowed to put down APMs to help keep Orbitals down? As in I put the APMs near the orbital asset so when they come to repair they get blasted.
A good example of this is Cereb, the PAC orbital is right there at a corner with alot of little places to tuck APMs in to kill would be repairers. Does this mean putting APMs there is a big no no? By doing something like that you can effectively leave the orbital unguarded for abit to get hit another asset such as the UAV or Sat.

Yes, leaving APMs in the UCB is against the rules. Can you say with 100% certainty that the person that trips that APM will always be an engineer going in for repairs? No, you can not.

Originally Posted by DunNa

Most of your rules make plenty of sense but this is just coming off as supremely arbitrary. I understand the need and desire to stop spawn camping but at the same time this spawn has alot of assets that a ripe for fiery destruction, I consider things like high beacons to be exploits and understand rules along those lines that deal with exploits. Though this isn't an exploit, there is good reason to blow up those things (including the armor). Specially say the walker on Cereb or Tunis, every minute the enemy doesn't have the walker is alot of tickets saved.
Now I could possibly see this coming into fair play rules, but they are leaving there base completely unguarded, leaving the walker or whatever else just laying there. Shouldn't they be punished by such tactical blunders? If they are allowing Recons and Supports into there main base to blow stuff up don't they deserve to wait an extra minute or two to get that walker?

Read the line from the rules I quoted above, it sums it up nicely. The rule is there to keep the game fun for both teams.

Originally Posted by DunNa

My point is, is that having a lambert or two in there WORKS. You don't need 5 medics having a defibbing circle jerk. Though the 4+ medic squads are the norm and recons of any sort are seen as an abomination to TG kind by most SLs I've had the chance to play with. I don't mind playing medic, support, or even engie infact I generally do. Though there are certain cases where a lambert would be all around superior to a fifth or sixith medic.

Some squad leaders don't like sniper/recon kits in their squads, some do. I do not disallow the use of the kit in my squad as long as the player follows orders and clears its use through me first. However, I don't often allow for snipers unless there is an actual tactical need for it. I also feel the defib is a much more potent tool on the battlefield 90% of the time. Bullets, APMs, grenades, sniper rounds, RDX packs, etc can down a soldier but the defib can negate the kill.

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