Spulat

I've been guilty of that on more than on occasion. Happens less often now, but I am still a bit stubborn about my "favorite spots".

Though having said that, I have found some sweet spots on a couple of maps where I've been able to pick off guys from halfway across the map, and add to general confusion and mayhem for them as well as racking up a number of kills. For one map, I had a group running around like headless chickens on a bridge by a silo, and it was interesting to (for the first time) kind of corral them with well-placed warning shots. I was well placed so a lot of their long distance fire just hit the dirt. I'm not really sure why they had such a hard time pinpointing where I was shooting from *scratches head in confusion*

Then I ran out of ammo, and being in an isolated area of the map, just ran in and pistol dropped one before getting taken down. Interesting how so far, I have my best accuracy and kills with the rifle and the pistol.

/digress

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"It's a sad and a strange thing / but it's time and I am changing / into something good or bad, well that's your guess..." -Dar Williams

roguesniper

Where does this bias against recon come from? I personally think the Recon kit is just as important as any kit in the game. For some reason most SL's don't want it in their squads. Used the correct way the Recon kit can provide the SL with a huge advantage on the battlefield. Whether its apms and RDX the flag, sniper support or spotting enemy squads, the recon kit is an extremely valuable asset. Just wondering what y'all think! I use recon 99 percent of the time and what im best at. A good leader plays to his peoples strengths, think about that when you are forming and running your squads.

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"Only the Dead have seen the end of War"..........

Azura

On occasion I'll run a Recon in my squad especially with the Otus and also if our goal is do get one of the back flags with the Commander Assets in them. Usually on defense I'll call it because my squad will be less mobile and the Sniper can actually set up.

On attack I find especially sniper useless. First of all, if you try to "cover" the squad you are going to end up getting left behind. That's one less gun and meat shield in the squad. Second, when the fighting get's rough around the flag, I would rather have one more defib when all hell breaks loose. I'm not a very big fan of RDX'n the flag, usually two squaddies grenades can do about the same damage.

The thing about RDX'n the flag I hate, is the recon will be off somewhere else and once he sees it turned Neutral he clicks the button. Then me and four of my squad members die because our last defense is directly on the flag, but he still manages to kill one enemy!

If I know someone is good with the Recon kit I'll call them in, Eroak and Unload always beast with the Carbine. But they also play it correctly, flanking the enemy; not taking em head on. If I made a squad every time with four assault, one support, and one recon, that recon will probably come in Sniper and follow me, get killed, get left behind, and or not even stick with the squad. I swear pubs go nuts when they have a chance to play sniper! Because if I call in one, four have to come in with it! (Even when I designate them RECON)

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draeh

I do not mind Recon's in my squad. I think the stigma comes from the general pubby recon that wants to go sniper and do nothing for the team/squad. I welcome a competent Recon that sticks with the squad. I always let my sqauddies pick their own kits. I only suggest what we need to get the job done. If an SM decides that they can get the job done as a Recon, then I give them that opportunity.

I understand your frustration. I want to work on my Recon skills, but I find that most times I need to be the SL of my own squad to get the time in. There are SLs that do include Recon's for specific circumstances. I guess I'm just more flexible in allowing everyone in my squad to try things out. That probably comes from my limited SL abilities. I find that I don't have all the answers for a situation, but maybe one of my squaddies does.

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Shurikane

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...nce-recon.html

Suggested reading.

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westyfield

I reckon that most people don't like Recon kits because it's only Recon players that have the ability to jihad jeep, they are sneaky and can ruin a well organised attack with one APM (so people like playng them, but not being attacked by them). The sniper rifles seem a bit obsolete as most people have the AR rockets by now, which are good at taking out people at long range (and they have the ability to hurt more than one person at once, and kill from behind cover). Then, of course, there is the 'ub3r-snipz0r-l33t-I-don't-need-teamwork-when-I've-got-my-sniper-rifle' mentality that some players seem to have.
All in all, a good kit (invaluable for Titan assaults), but it has a bad reputation for reasons listed above.

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roguesniper

I agree with you about the pubbies thing. It does get a little ridiculous and you do need to maintain squad integrity. I also agree that it has to played correctly to be effective. Im always trying to be more effective with it, its an ongoing process.

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"Only the Dead have seen the end of War"..........

pred011586

This is the number one reason I don't call for a Recon kit in my squads. Number two being that I'd prefer the benefit over the defib over the benefit of a Recon kit.

I know TG members are smart enough to not have the above reaction, but I have never lead a full TG squad. I think it may partly be because I don't sport the TG tags, but that's probably irrevelant. My squads normally consist of 1-2 TG players, along with 1-2 TG regulars. The rest of the spots are normally filled with random people. I don't normally trust the random people to follow my orders to the dot until we're about 5-10 minutes into the round and they prove to me they can follow orders (doesn't always happen). If I call in one recon, I usually end up with too many.

I've stated many times that I'd love to have a good recon in my squads, I just can't allow for it and still maintain squad cohesion with the random halo kids and their glorified sniper pipe dreams.

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Lorax74

This conversation again?

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roguesniper

Sorry Lorax i didnt realize there was a whole post dedicated to this. My bad!

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"Only the Dead have seen the end of War"..........

Zhohar

So how often have you ran squads with recons within them, rogue? You just can't pull of a statement like this without experience to back it up.

From my own 13 days of ingame time SLing, I can make these statements:
There are several disadvantages to recon's main strengths:
1. Spotting: too often the recon just gets tunnel vision and gets to be 50-100 meters behind the squad. This isn't a problem with the person, it's a problem with the mindset.
2. RDX/APM the flag -- very useful, but too often the recon will rush headlong for action and die, losing his APMs and RDX.
3. Otus benefits -- yes, the Otus benefits are great but the SL is much more visible with the Otus and from experience with and without an Otus, I think SLing is easier when the SL doesn't have to worry for his own life due to extremely visibility.

I know Lorax is right in "this stuff again?", but I want to address a specific point here: if you're going to use the SL tactics as your shield to mask lonewolfing and "kills first" mentality, you had better have SL experience yourself. I and many other experienced SLs do not like recons for a reason. When you've walked in our shoes for as long as we have, you're free to make statements regarding recons from an SL point of view. Until then, keep this as your own personal opinion please.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

roguesniper

I believe thats what it was, an opinion, was just trying to understand other peoples views on it. Sorry for the suggestion, ill keep my opinions to myself from now on. It wasnt meant to challenge anyones experience or knowledge, ill just sit in the corner like a good boy from now on.

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"Only the Dead have seen the end of War"..........

Eroak

/deep breath/

Ok people, lets get our act together here. This thread really went south now in which the way we addressed rogue. TG tags doesn't mean you have experience. TG-21, or TG-3rd tags doesn't mean I'm better then you. Many real life tactics are based upon case scenarios. Many tactics are also used by what works best for the team/squad/battalion/etc. So what the difference here? Ok so rogue likes the kit and wants some SLs to think about it. It that so wrong for him to suggest so? Experience tells you that the recon has many reasons not to play it, but can you recall how many games I saved personaly becasue I IDed weakpoints and exploited them. I'm not saying every SL needs to reconsider this, I'm not saying we shouldn't show rogue reasons not to. I telling you guys need to be a bit more constructive about opinions and built on it, even if we been down this road before, maybe some of our new players haven't. If 2142 is still alive another 2 years, Every thread here will and must be revisited for the players that are yet to come.

Do shoot down ideas, build upon them.

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|Think Tank|TGU Admin|BFx Admin|Community Improvement|
From the TG Primer: 2) Create an environment where there is
mutual respect for your fellow gamers and where all members
would be working together to advance the enjoyment of their hobby.

Uranium - 235

Agreed. Lambert + Explosives can be great fun, especially in an active assault role.

Snipers are damn-near worthless, and nobody's ever made a convincing argument for them. It boils down to this: Someone who's a great sniper is a great shot, and a great shot will get more kills, more often, and be more of an asset to their team by sticking with a Baur or something. Additionally, in all my hours of playing all kinds of games with sniper rifles, I've *NEVER* experienced any of these 'hero stories' that snipers brag about. All that bull**** about saving a squad with a sharp shot, or taking out the leader with one shot and throwing a squad into disarray - it's all just rhetoric - shenanigans.

The game is simply too fast (and the view distance too short), and too lethal to give snipers a real use. This isn't just some gooby 'I've been playing for like three days' BS, I mean in all of my FPS history I've never seen a sniper do anything useful besides, ironically, killing enemy snipers.

Anyone can do that, and actually probably more effectively than a sniper, since snipers have a little scope they peek through and tend not to move, or tend to take a long while *TO* move, meaning they'll ultimately miss more. There's countless places squads can move around through, that some boob with a fancy scope will never be able to see from any decent hidey-hole.

They have their little NetBat toy, but it's really not something I'd ever want to lose a player to have. Bottom line - if I saw an SM packing a sniper rifle, I'd give them one chance to join the real game before I boot them to make room for a real player.

Bomber

yea..I actually like Rogue's idea of integrating a sniper, however I will only do it if I know the guy or the other guys in the squad because like Azura said everyone jumps for sniper or the sniper won't switch back. It is very defensible and needs to set up so only when I am defending a flag I will call for it or get one in infantry only maps. Rdx when used properly, is devastating, I mean in the locked server thing, I killed a squad going south past central to ruins with rdx. No one checks for apms assuming they'll just get revived. Also, it is very easy to be "skilled" with a sniper because everyone tries setting up to shoot you meaning non-moving/slightly moving target. The stigma comes from people playing other shooters and then coming to 2142 only to go prone trying to take people out only to get rocketed.

Uranium, this guy came on our server and talked trash and what not but got about 60 kills 5 deaths 5 rounds in a row so there are people that are extremely nice with the sniper. I was sniping last night and I actually did take out several several ticket while people were either going for the revive or were somewhat secluded on Camp Gibraltar while holding only EU and it was about a 15 ticket game along with restricting routes of attack by just throwing rdx down on people having someone comment on how much they hated rdx. In my opinion, if you go lambert unless your Lyra or a select few others, its a waste of time not having a defib.