Re: Bias against Recon

**Azura** · 07-20-2008, 07:26 PM

Hm, well I'll tell you what, I am going to run a Recon in everyone one of my squads tonight, unless the situation becomes dire. I'm not going to be looking at the Recons kills or Effiency but I want to see how well certain squad tactics can play out better with a Recon. I am a bit curious in finding out where exactly the Recon fits in. Oh and by Recon I mean Lambert and the mean toys! So whoever is down for some Reconcreativity find me!!

Prior Thoughts:
1) The Recon's kit is a plain and simple killing it--- With a weaker weapon. I highly doubt it's spotting ability is even a factor.
2) I think the Recons position should be point man. They should be the first one to fight and die, as they have no defib.
3) Instead of trailing around the squad, Recon should be cloaked ahead of the squad as bait and/or an "On-The-Run" Ambush--- While the enemy is busy trying to kill the cloaker the squad supports

**bb gun** · 07-20-2008, 07:56 PM

I don't want to give away any secrets, but one TG member (whose name rhymes with "Marithea"), had a good strategy with recon.

We all spawned with cloaks to run past the enemy defense. I tried it today with pretty good success (even though we lost the map).

**Zhohar** · 07-20-2008, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by bb gun

I don't want to give away any secrets, but one TG member (whose name rhymes with "Marithea"), had a good strategy with recon.

We all spawned with cloaks to run past the enemy defense. I tried it today with pretty good success (even though we lost the map).

I've done this several times, it works beautifully. TGers focus on each recon as if he was the SL -- if there are 6 recons, it's kind of hard to figure out which one is the SL ... especially if half of them are ghosted and the other half just vanilla cloaked recons

**DrakenViator** · 07-20-2008, 11:09 PM

The one thing I have found that the recon excels at like no other is the low server pop grab and run...

There have been several rounds I've 'experimented' with recon (it is my least used kit by FAR) and yes I've gotten yelled at by a SL or two for doing this, but when my SL lets me I let the five other member of my squad face the enemy head on while I run far and wide to a completely different flag and cap it.

I've more then once saved a near cap out because of this as well as turned the bleed in our teams favor a few times as well. The problem is that the Recon is a slow action role. They never survive well for front lines fighting, that I have seen. Recon kits are great for sneaking and holding, but not pushing.

It was also really fun holding a flag all by my self as the enemy squad ran up, camped the flag... Then flew like confetti when I pushed the little red button...

~ Draken

PS- If I tend to ramble please forgive me, I'm at about hour 40 of a very long sleepless weekend...

**Vortex421** · 07-21-2008, 01:33 AM

Hmmm... recon? It's an interesting kit when used effectively. Of course, this requires modifications to squad tactics to take advantage of it.

For starters, a recon outfitted with a sniper rifle is something that I generally use at a distance. If I am the recon for the squad I'll situate in a position to perform overwatch on my squad as they defend or attack. From that position a good sniper can do serious damage. Got a Ganz mowing down your squad? That recon sitting off in the distance with a Zeller is the perfect neutralizing factor. Trying to take out a pesky assault medic who is busy rocketing your squad as they try to cap a flag? A recon is handy here.

And then there's carbines. Good in close-range situations and personal defense. Throw in some APMs to hold down a flag, add RDX to a potential avenue of attack, and a recon can easily help improve flag defense. Let's not forget the Recon unlock that prolongs diamonds as they appear - a handy thing when you're running an Otis.

While it may not be something I use often, I try to keep it as another weapon in my arsenal. Sometimes it's a good thing to change things up a bit and toss out something the enemy is not expecting.

**SharinganTH1422** · 07-21-2008, 11:53 AM

On the Lambert - has it been nerfed? I used to be better with the Lambert than any of the ARs, but that was like 7 months ago...still my best weapon (statistically), but I hardly use it anymore...

**Bagheera** · 07-21-2008, 04:01 PM

There is a bias against recon, although some see it and some don't. However, this bias comes from TWO sources, not one.

1) The mentality of some SL's about having Recons or Snipers in their squad.
2) The playstyle of MOST Recon/Sniper players, and their inability to work WITH a team.

I'm primarily a Recon player, however that being said, even I know when to spawn as a Recon and grab a sniper rifle, and when not to.

In a heavy meatgrinder area where you have to move fast and shoot even faster, there are times when being a Recon Sniper is just a big no-no. An initial push in Gibraltar as PAC is a great example of this, as being a Sniper will have your hands wrapped around a cold barrel for most of the push. Berlin (I think it's Berlin) as PAC is a good example of when assaulting as a Sniper IS a good idea. You've got that nice long corridor in which to take out HMG's and rocket whores who are preventing PAC assault pushes.

During more conservative pushes, or when things go into a lockdown mode, is when the Sniper shines, but again, only when supporting a team. Remember, the Sniper is a SUPPORT role, as much as the soldier with the HMG.

Even when I play as Assault (when having a Sniper rifle isn't appropriate) I can still use Recon/Sniper like tactics while playing. I use the long range first-shot capability of the Baur to keep heads down, while my team advances upon their position. If I'm the first one in, I like to clean house with the Shotgun attachment, since the enemy team is worried about getting their heads capped by the Baur. As a Sniper with a Baur or a dedicated Sniper rifle, this tactic works well on places like Tunis, Suez, and others where you keep the enemy behind cover, and if they pop their heads up, they get blown away. Meanwhile your team moves into the tight cover and mops up enemies who are pinned down too close together.

**BigMcLarge** · 07-21-2008, 04:33 PM

I can definitely see the role of Recon on the battlefield, but as someone who mostly plays as Assault or Support, and spends much of the time picking their way across a map, there's nothing more frustrating than almost getting to the next flag, hiding behind some cover, only to get one shot killed by a sniper. ARGH!

The one thing that I really like about Recon/snipers...taking one out! I love it when one gets spotted by a teammate, and I load up my rockets, sight 'em in and blast them off the hill, catwalk, whatever!

**LordKelvin** · 07-21-2008, 04:42 PM

Trust me, its a very similar feeling when the sniper slams your rocket-whoring face into the dirt. XD

**BigMcLarge** · 07-21-2008, 04:49 PM

Yeah, but at least my body goes home to Mama in one piece. ;-) LOL

**Mordona** · 07-21-2008, 08:09 PM

One thing most recom players need to learn is to move. Camping players are the easiest targets. Rockets are plentiful here on TG. Sometimes I find really great hinding spots taht few players know and I can get away with them for 3 - 5 kills. Both if I'm moving with a squad, you need to learn reflex shooting. This is generaly learned with AR rifles in CQB. You need to reflex snap, shoot and move on. It's possible but takes time to develop and I recommend using the baur to train it this skill. This is what I have done and urge others to do if you intend on playing a running sniper in the future.

**Bagheera** · 07-21-2008, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Eroak

One thing most recom players need to learn is to move. Camping players are the easiest targets. Rockets are plentiful here on TG. Sometimes I find really great hinding spots taht few players know and I can get away with them for 3 - 5 kills. Both if I'm moving with a squad, you need to learn reflex shooting. This is generaly learned with AR rifles in CQB. You need to reflex snap, shoot and move on. It's possible but takes time to develop and I recommend using the baur to train it this skill. This is what I have done and urge others to do if you intend on playing a running sniper in the future.

Well said Eroak.

**Lorax74** · 07-21-2008, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bagheera

There is a bias against recon, although some see it and some don't. ...

You must sense when someone is about to start a recon thread, you've been gone for months but this brought you back...

**Shurikane** · 07-21-2008, 11:57 PM

There wouldn't be so much bias against recons on every server if those said recons didn't play like complete douchebags.

In Conquest, it's hardly a nuisance unless the medics around me are douchebags as well. As far as spec-ops go, the occasional APM and RDX does nothing but delay the inevitable, which is one lone recon bunnyhopping straight into a six-pack of enemies armed with assault rifles.

In Titan, you get the usual Jihad Jeepers, and it's a given you need 'em for Titan assault (so long as FF is turned off - unless you want to play it Iraqui-style) but overall it's a pretty straightforward pubn00b detector: lone snipers on top of a hill or a building, or an RDX bunnyhopper who thinks he can somehow catch up to my battlewalker - even though it's the slowest vehicle in the game, it still runs faster than he does. Not to mention those who decide to place jet black RDX packs on bright orange sand in a rather obvious and discernable pattern on the ground - at which point I simply cap the silo from the other side and laugh as the idiot fruitlessly detonates his precious ammo. It's no wonder they end up at the bottom of the board at the end of the game. The only recons I see who actually put up a fight are those who know their place, use their vehicles and work with their squad. Sadly, I've yet to see an EMP grenade get followed up by a spec-ops finishing the job.

Conclusion: I don't want recons in my squad. I just came back from a game where a squad member attempted to snipe a tank. There is a 99% chance I'll get a useless deadweight, and it's too much risk for the 1% that remain. Yep. Not even Lyra can outweight my absolute refusal to carry recons with me in CQ. I don't want to hear any of it.

**LordKelvin** · 07-22-2008, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Shurikane

I just came back from a game where a squad member attempted to snipe a tank.

Well, the Pilum and Park rifle DOES look strikingly similar... XD.

On a more serious note, I sometimes almost feel compelled to apologize for the general idiots that run around with a sniper rifle. It is my favorite past-time to hunt them. Not that it's very hard, considering they don't move very often.

I make sure that I make myself a royal pain in the ass when I play sniper. That, as a rule, in 2142 is your JOB as a sniper. You can't provide direct fire support (unless you have the most ridiculous snap-shot known to man, and even then you're still more likely to die). So, what do you do? You move around like a maniac, with your light armor and sprint upgrades, staying still only long enough to pop an idiot in the head. You leave beautiful explosive presents for vehicles and unsuspecting personnel. You cloak behind enemy lines and blow up their precious assets. You sneak up behind that rocket-whore thats still spamming the spot you were 5 mins ago and plant your blade in his back. You jump around a corner and empty your pistol into the surprised Voss-noob that was trying to hit you, and is now reloading, looks up, and gets to think "oh crap" before getting teabagged. These things are what a sniper/recon excels at doing, and no sniper should think otherwise. From personal experience, I can tell any aspiring sniper that you CANNOT defend/cover a flag with your primary weapon. Especially not on TG. See how far it gets you to snipe two guys who will be back on their feet in seconds. You better be darn good at dodging rockets.

I, as far as I can remember, have never even played recon on TG. For those of you that can't part with the sniper rifle, may I suggest the Baur H-AR. Two headshots is a kill, and the thing is DEADLY on single-shot. And in CQ, it's full auto is the equivalent of a revved-up Ganz. To your enemy's face.

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