Zhohar

Simple question. I've had a lot of luck with running 4 medics and 2 IDSs. Especially if the other person is competent with the shotgun.

Opinions? Any other SLs tried it out? Successes/failures?

I think it can work very well if the other support knows that his first priority is IDS and not shooting. And a dual EMP lock ... well, it's raising the effectiveness of an EMP lock from 60% to 90% no movement.

It can fail horribly if the other person doesn't have an IDS, doesn't use the support kit often, doesn't pack EMP grenades.

Most every infantry map I run now (Cerbere/Gibraltar/Tunis), I'll run two supports.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

thegrublet

Well, for selfish reasons, this support-lovin' player would like to think yes. Another support spot makes me happy. As for effectiveness, it seems like the operative phrase is "competent with the shotgun". When fighting mostly at distance, I think the Ganz is epic, and even three of 'em isn't too much... but if I'm running and gunning with you Zhohar, just trying to keep up, its effectiveness is so diminished, that it may hurt the squad. And unfortunately, competence with the shotgun doesn't come automatically, myself being exhibit A. So a Ganz/Clark combo, both minding their IDS and EMP, yeah, that could be pretty killer (a la Patton). Of course, on Belgrade, with the tank/APC and usually no NG in sight, the usefulness of the EMPs is negated for the most part. On Cerbere/Gibraltar/Tunis, they're definitely handy. I noticed you named a squad today, "Best Kit"... now that really makes me happy.

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Zhohar

Yeah, that's definitely a major problem.

2 IDSs provide a lovely amount of coverage, and 2 EMPers are just awful for any kind of armor but ... we can't be dragging dead weight around in terms of firepower.

Support machine guns -- Shuko/Bianchi/Ganz -- are nearly useless in the type of play necessary to win infantry-focused maps. Shotguns are a necessity.

So this makeup does boil down to -- does this squad have two people who are at least competent with the shotgun, in order to provide lovely IDS coverage and make armor go away?

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

pred011586

If the Recon NetBat + Otus counts as an IDS, then I go with 2.

On infantry maps you're either defending a flag or assaulting another one. On defense 2 IDS can be useful, but on offense, just pop one on your Otus and that's all you'll need. It'd take too much effort to constantly replant the 2nd one in my opinion.

Now, on defense, 2 IDSes could be very useful. I haven't tried it willingly, but the few times that a 2nd support spawns in when I only call for 1, having the 2nd IDS covering more area does help alot.

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jazy2

Intel is the key and I'm becoming more handy with the shotty as each round passes. Also, when defending, that second supply box is crucial. 'Nades to soften the attackers and all SM's get to finish 'em off. (shotty being my tool of choice)

If you have a squad that's good enough to watch the minimap and 2 properly placed IDS's then you should have little to no resistance. 2 assaults stay with each support and you are quite set for awesomeness. Just don't bunch up, and take turns staying a bit back for revives on that "lucky 'nade" that just killed the other 2 in your fireteam.

If more than 1 enemy is on the map about to round a corner I always think 'nade first shotty later but this can backfire if you teammates have not got the option to throw 'nades and they will advance on the position you want to 'nade. Keep your team topped up with ammo and this should reduce teamkills on over excited teammates.

Also NEVER forget the effectiveness of EMPing infantry!! Confusion and lack of proper sights!!! Enemy turrets are also disabled and any enemy Otus or Spanky now makes a lovely ornament for the floor Mix in some frag 'nades with the EMPs too. Can't hurt....can it??

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INTEL the newest political party.....Keep the IDS's up.....open your Battlefield eyes!

Razcsak

I'd rather say it depends on your medics. If you've got at least one person who's good enough at the reviving and situational awareness that he can make up the loss of one defib, absolutely.

Specterr

My thoughts exactly.

MrJengles

Ah, the questions there's never a simple answer to. I think it entirely depends on the situation. I agree with Pred that 2 IDS's are not such an improvement over 1 when attacking. The reasons being that you already have 1, you most likely have the Otus, and when you're attacking you know the basic area the enemy is in. On the other hand that extra medic on attack could be the difference between success and failure seeing as he can revive people who no longer have to wait to spawn, and more importantly he can revive the SL so you can all keep spawning rather than having to start the attack all over again. As well as the matter of tickets.

On defense I think everyone would agree having two scanners to check two different locations is a great help. Defense is quite different, it's about seeing where the enemy is coming from and moving to stop them quickly that is a huge advantage. Medics are slightly less important because you can spawn on the SLer or flag and still be straight to the action.

Finally the issue of weaponry...2 EMPers are useful not just because of throwing them twice as fast but because it makes it more likely to have someone with EMPs next to you for those moments you suddenly and unexpectedly find yourself fighting armor.
The decision on shotguns is very much about the situation. Confined spaces like buildings and of course it's the weapon of choice. Reading the maps Zho's asking about I'm having difficulty finding times it's better to have a machine gun.

Lots of flags are prone to being buggy rushed, then you want a shotty.
When you're attacking or defending near any flag you probably want a shotty.
Pleanty of those flags can be navigated to without being in the open that much (eg Toll to EU Base on Gibby, and all flags up to Command on Cerbere).

However, there are occasions a machine gun might be better. Any stalemates for example (like Harbour/Toll and Roadblock/Command).
Also any times you can catch people out in the open, like on Tunis defending between Junk/Eastern. Or maybe when you have to move through the open you can soften them up at a distance. There's no point being great at close range with a shotty if you can't get there.

Zhohar

I wouldn't think so. If your squad is under-performing when only 20% of its revive prowess is removed, then you have bigger problems.
I see what you're saying though, and this may be a make-up for for tight squads with a fair number of experienced soldiers. Still though, I can't be running around two Ganzs on Gibraltar. Even if I have 8 defibs behind them, Ganzs aren't useful there. Clarks are where it's at.

The Otus is a lovely wallhack, for sure, but I find it attracts too much attention to me. I have trouble enough staying alive as is and I don't need another thing pointing me out to the enemy. Especially when I'm assaulting flags.
Moreover, if that Otus goes down in the middle of a firefight, getting it up and putting an IDS on it takes about 3/4s of a century too long.

I've never been a fan of the Otus, despit the lovely radius and extra intel it provides.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

MrJengles

Lol...actually I never used to be a fan of the Otus. When you manage to get behind enemy lines and you need a beacon you're screwed lol. But since I've found TG and seen quite the way they do things the beacon rarely gets used. I think it's overlooked a bit but I'm trying to remember to use the Otus. Good point about the attention though...it really does make you a target, especially revealing you behind cover.

Something I missed from my last post: Shotties may be great but you might get very reduced kills following Zho with it, everyones dead already XD

Ganz's on Gibby Zho but deffo not running around with them.

Specterr

Just a comment on the Otus...yes it can make you a target, but it's free to redeploy, so if you are assaulting a flag or hiding and you don't want to be singled out or it to give away your position just shoot it and it will solve the problem, once that's over redeploy and presto, intel goodness once again.

Zhohar

Yep, that's true, but -- the times I need to stay hidden are exactly the times I need intel the most.
I need to stay hidden when I'm assaulting so I can survive and get people to spawn off me -- and this is also exactly the time I need intel so I can avoid enemies and intel so that my people can find them and kill them.

It's a wonderful tool, but I just can' get around to using it. My opinion of the SL's job is that his first and primary purpose is to stay alive. Sure I may have 5 medics behind me, but 90% of the time when my pushes fail, it's my fault for not focusing on staying alive.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

LordKelvin

If I remember correctly there was a member of the third that advocated the HMG over the shotgun, even in CQC and on the move. WaffleHousChef, I think it was.

I tend to share his viewpoint... I'm not fantastic with the shotgun, but I can kill people with it... but there is one problem. I can't engage anything not within 5-10 feet of me. I'd rather be carrying a weapon I can use both up close and at range. With medics behind me if I go down, I can still put a decent amount of hard-hitting slugs in a guy with the HMG at close range, even if the enemy does win the 1v1 firefight. Then my medic buddy sprays him once, paddles me back to life, and off we go. And awesomely enough, I can lay down suppressing fire on would-be rocketeers as the rest of the squad runs into position.

This seems slightly off-topic, but essentially, the point is the following: Your point man SL support should carry the shotgun (duh), but the second support, if you need him for EMPing and IDSing, should bring a LMG/HMG. More utility, vastly improved range/field of influence = greater lethality and greater asset to the squad.

Just my 2 cents.

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Why MTG has lost any sense of balance:
Lotus Cobra

Reaperassault

Yes you can, this magical weapon that provides range is called the grenade.

As to zhohar's post, it depends. I say that in two respects 1) is the second shotgun/IDS providing your squad with enough offensive power to make up for the medic, jointly 2) are the (hopefully) 4 medics in your squad keeping everyone alive. A lot of this come down to cost/benefit (like most things) so its really an in game decision that requires flexibility and most likely kit switching.

on a different note, suppression means next to nothing in this game, to many med boxes laying around to really suppress with gun fire, suppression should mean a dead enemy that can't do anything back

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Zhohar

My thoughts exactly.
I have *NEVER* understood suppression in Battlefield 2142. I dare and challenge anyone to explain this concept and how it is useful in Battlefield 2142.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?