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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - Tactics and Missions Discussion - Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG - This article has been a long time coming. It is something I have alluded to
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    Crux's Avatar

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    Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    This article has been a long time coming. It is something I have alluded to previously in at least one of the instructional pieces I wrote here in the TG forums. At the time, my contention that deaths contribute more than 50% of ticket loss on the TG server was met with skepticism by some players. And in truth, what I am going to talk about represents a genuine shift in the way we think about killing, dying, and holding flags here at TG. It will challenge many peoples' preconceived notions of 'teamwork'. I hope everyone reads with an open mind.


    Definitions

    Neutral Map: Map in which neither team starts out holding a flag other than their UCB. On Neutral maps, ticket bleed only occurs when you hold more flags than the opponent.

    Assault/Defend Map: Map in which one team begins the round in possession of flags and must defend. On these maps, the assaulting team is under ticket bleed until they capture a flag that is held by the enemy at the start of the round.

    Flag Bleed: Steady loss of tickets resulting from the number of flags held by your team (or the opposing team)

    Death Bleed: Tickets lost due to soldiers dying and not being revived.


    Premise

    The simple truth is this: the general TG style of play focuses entirely too much on the capture of flags for the purposes of creating or preventing Flag Bleed. Instead we should focus on Flag Capture for strategic advantage to further support our goal of utterly destroying the enemy's forces through Death Bleed.

    The Ugly Truth

    TG is a community that focuses on teamwork. This is a noble goal. However even the most noble goals can still go awry when poor understanding of game dynamics leads to a misconception regarding teamwork. The truth is, far in excess of 50% of ticket loss on ANY map is as a result of Death Bleed. It is ridiculous to have conversations about effective teamwork and tactics without a basic recognition of this fact. The team that does the most killing typically does the most winning.

    The Shift

    In essence, the paradigm shift in thinking is this:

    We should not kill people in order to cap flags. We should cap flags in order to kill people.
    That is to say, when we look at capping flags, we should focus more on which flags offer us positional advantage to kill our enemy than which flags we need to hold to prevent bleed. This isn't to say we shouldn't cap flags. But there are some flags that should only be capped when they are undefended, and some flags that should basically never be defended.

    Ruins on Belgrade is a classic example of this. The flag is death on a stick. People can approach you behind all kinds of cover while you don't have a lot. There is a rail gun but it is extremely poorly positioned. Meanwhile the two flags with direct line of sight (Pond and Statue) are both elevated allowing the enemy to shoot down into your position. Any team that is defending Ruins is fighting a losing battle. Meanwhile if we look at Statue - it has limited entryways, elevation. A walker spawns there (walkers are always good for killing people).

    Similarly if we look at the flags from a positional standpoint. Some are great staging areas allowing easy access to, and hence attack on, other flags on the map. Other flags are isolated and offer little from a positional standpoint. If you stopped thinking about ticket bleed for a minute and looked for defensible positions from which you could easily attack the enemy, the entire game changes.

    Don't Leap To Illogical Conclusions

    Now I'm not saying being under bleed is a good thing. That is patently absurd. But when you look at the Assault/Defend maps like Cerbere Landing and Camp Gibraltar, you'll recognize something very quickly: the positions you start in are poor for killing the enemy. Ie, you start off with a positional disadvantage regardless of whether or not bleed is on. THAT is great motivation for capping a flag beyond ticket bleed.

    But even then, we should beware the whole attitude of 'cap a flag at any cost'. Flag Bleed simply isn't that rapid. I've seen teams throw away 30, 40 tickets to cap a flag and hence avoid 10 ticket lost in bleed. You have to choose your battleground. Where would you WANT to be fighting out of? If we look at Cerbere Landing, you don't want Church to be the only flag your team holds at ANY point in the game. It's a fishbowl. People can stand all around you and frag the daylights out of you. You might prevent Flag Bleed by holding it, but it will cost you so much in Death Bleed it won't matter.

    So I am not saying ignore capping flags. I'm not saying ignore being under bleed. I am saying you have to be smart about both what flags you try to take and WHY you try to take them. There is not such thing as 'stopping Flag Bleed at all costs'. The point isn't to not be under Flag Bleed. The point is to win the bloody game.

    So What Do We Do Now?

    Spend a few minutes and look at each map. Decide what is worth holding and what isn't. Then when the round starts, do everything you can to take the flags that are worth holding. When you get them, then use whatever positional advantage you just gained to outkill the enemy. Maybe that means setting up an awesome defense and letting the enemy team break against you. Maybe it means sortying out in flanking maneuvers to wipe out enemy squads and then retreat to your stronghold.

    Be willing to trade bad flags for good ones. Let's say you do hold Ruins and they hold Statue. When they push for Ruins from Statue, let them in. Pull back, flank around and cap Statue while they are grabbing it. Or another example: perhaps the enemy holds Pond, Ruins AND Statue. Sneak in and Cap Ruins. Then while they are trying to get it back, cap Statue or Pond. Use the capping of a weak flag as a distraction in order to cap a strong one. Always look to trade up which flags you hold.

    Also recognize which flags are strong in combination. Honestly Playground and Com Tower on Belgrade are both not easy to hold individually. But when you hold both together they are significantly easier to defend.

    Be John Travolta

    And lastly: stay alive. Stop throwing your virtual life away in some valiant attempt to take a flag. Instead stay alive and make the other guy die to defend it. Oftentimes you can kill him faster than his flag will cause bleed to you.

    The other part of this is, the more you stay alive, the more you can do. The average player dies 7.5 or more times per round. That's almost 2 minutes lying on the ground watching a counter go by. And let's face it: this is TG. Sometimes when you go down you get revived. So in reality even if you only get revived 1 out of every 3 times you actually die, you spend closer to 3 minutes lying on the ground doing nothing. That's about 15% of the average round! If we add in the time your teammates spend trying to revive you, you waste in excess of 20% of the round either dying, being revived or reviving others. That's very inefficient use of time! So be more careful with your virtual life.

    The Proof

    I don't think I'm bragging when I talk about the impact the 3rd has on the outcome of a round. I honestly feel as though in ANY round if we get 4 or more of us in a squad we should win regardless of who else is playing. But why is that?

    The 3rd members are trained to kill people and to not die. That's what we focus on above all else. I obsess over kill/death ratios - both mine and those of our members. If someone wants to join the 3rd, I do two things. I look up his K/D ratio, and I see what everyone thinks of him/her as a person. If they suck at either of these two things (K/D or being a cool, fun person) then they don't get in.

    Now yes some of this is just skill. But a lot of it is mentality. The concept of pulling back from a fight and trying somewhere else. Of avoiding the conflict to cap an easy, good flag. The average player chases the action. The 3rd focuses on creating the action. If you don't understand that distinction, then feel free to ask, because I don't mean we run around looking for fights. We look for opportunities to remove the enemy's tickets by the most efficient means possible. Some flags cost too much to take. Some fights cannot be won. Any good SL or Commander HAS to learn to recognize this fact and look for another way to win. Another means to take tickets of the board.

    There are times we will go to take a flag, and we actually take a long time to cap it. Because it isn't a madlong rush in to the cap radius. It is a probing push. A pull back. A flank. Another probe. The whole time we're killing people and not dying. We'll revive and pull back and try another angle. We're taking tickets from them here and there trying to find the weakness. And then we find it and exploit it and take the flag. But it is a multi-step process that focuses first on not dying, second on killing the enemy and third on taking the flag.

    There are times taking a flag becomes an exercise in frantic desperation. But, you have to recognize when that is necessary.

    This has ended up being much more of a rambling, disorganized case of verbal diarrhea than originally planned, but I never really got an opportunity to organize everything neatly. Feel free to ask questions, comment. I'd be happy to explain more.
    ....

    Infantryman's Guide: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5
    Squad Leader Guide: Part 1 - Part 2
    The Paradigm Shift

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Awesome write up, Crux. A bit jarbled at times like you said at the end there, but your point is still clear as day.

    I often get people in-game who ask me why I always go for Statue on Belgrade at the start. My reasons are exactly what you're talking about. I don't care if the rest of my team can't cap 2 other flags to keep the flags even. Statue is the easiest flag to defend on the map, and provides a Walker for the defenders, as well as being tactically placed in the middle of the map, allowing for a beautiful staging point to Com, Ruins, and Playground. Maybe now I won't often be the only SL that goes for the flag!

    Your point also is a glaring reminder of how to handle stand-offs. Particularly Toll/Harbor, or Command/Ruins on Cerbere. Keep in mind how many tickets you're losing in an attempt to take that flag. In the end, is it worth it?

    Crux, you may want to run some tests on how much each flag actually contributes to bleed. Just check how much team between ticket loss when the flag count changes. That'd be something to keep in mind. If you can get another flag from the enemy would the resulting ticket bleed be worth the tickets spent on the assault? For all we know, each additional flag provides less and less additional ticket bleed (similar to piling people on a flag to cap it). If that's the case, being 1 or 2 flags up should be a good point to stop and defend. Instead of throwing away tickets on a flag that has more people coming out of it than you have trying to push in.

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Very nice Crux. As an SL, I often over estimate the usefulness of bleed. "We should not kill people in order to cap flags. We should cap flags in order to kill people." I will be keeping that in mind for a while to come.

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Thanks for the feedback. It really is horribly written :P I might re-write the whole thing in a more cohesive manner sometime next week when I have time.
    ....

    Infantryman's Guide: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5
    Squad Leader Guide: Part 1 - Part 2
    The Paradigm Shift

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    I'd like to say something in regards to killing people and not dying.

    My marksmanship isn't terrible, and I go into fights with a plan. Yet I always find myself the first one dead, even if I didn't run in first. And once dead, when people come to revive me, I always have grenades or rockets already on me that kill no one but me. When crossing the street, I'm the one that gets sniped or run over. When running between cover I get mowed down anyway. When surprised I'm dead before my rifle finishes scoping in. The list goes on and on. I find it difficult to believe that it's all due to lack of situational awareness, because often I am fully aware of the position of my adversaries.

    What I am trying to say is more often than not my deaths are caused by things I cannot prevent. I am not throwing away my virtual life needlessly, rather I am being inexplicably singled out and destroyed. And this wouldn't even matter so much were it not for the fact that medics seem to feel that getting out their defib paddle isn't worth the effort of saving my ticket. When running to flags if I get shot most of the time the squad just keeps running in, leaving me behind. Even when I'm the squadlead!

    It's not just the push-push-push mentality at fault here. It's that we are CONTENT to let our teammates die. That is what is unacceptable in my opinion.



    EVE Online: Yumi Hikare


    "I've done everything I can... There are no heroes left in man..."

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKelvin View Post
    I'd like to say something in regards to killing people and not dying.

    My marksmanship isn't terrible, and I go into fights with a plan. Yet I always find myself the first one dead, even if I didn't run in first. And once dead, when people come to revive me, I always have grenades or rockets already on me that kill no one but me. When crossing the street, I'm the one that gets sniped or run over. When running between cover I get mowed down anyway. When surprised I'm dead before my rifle finishes scoping in. The list goes on and on. I find it difficult to believe that it's all due to lack of situational awareness, because often I am fully aware of the position of my adversaries.

    What I am trying to say is more often than not my deaths are caused by things I cannot prevent. I am not throwing away my virtual life needlessly, rather I am being inexplicably singled out and destroyed. And this wouldn't even matter so much were it not for the fact that medics seem to feel that getting out their defib paddle isn't worth the effort of saving my ticket. When running to flags if I get shot most of the time the squad just keeps running in, leaving me behind. Even when I'm the squadlead!

    It's not just the push-push-push mentality at fault here. It's that we are CONTENT to let our teammates die. That is what is unacceptable in my opinion.
    While you find it difficult to believe you die due to a lack of situational awareness, I find it difficult to believe you die due to unusually bad luck.

    You are doing something wrong. I can't tell you exactly what without following you around, but it is there. You can either accept that and try to learn to do something different, or blame bad luck. The choice is yours mate.

    And I really hope this response didn't come off harshly - it really is not meant as such!
    ....

    Infantryman's Guide: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5
    Squad Leader Guide: Part 1 - Part 2
    The Paradigm Shift

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Quote Originally Posted by Crux View Post
    You are doing something wrong. I can't tell you exactly what without following you around, but it is there.
    That'd be interesting. Hire a 3rd member for a night to follow you around and tell you what you're doing wrong.

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    -_-

    No offense taken Crux. I just find it immensely dubious that when the enemy orbital drops it insta-gibs me and everyone else survives...



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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Excellent Crux. I couldn't agree with you more.

    LordKelvin I understand you completely because I often find myself in that position. After playing Battlefield Heroes for a while I really hated coming back to BF2142 for a few rounds. What struck me was my sense of helplessness and the unfairness of this game engine or whatever causes this to happen. In BFH I rarely if ever find lag other than at the very beginning of a round, for the first 2 or 3 seconds, then it settles and it's silky smooth throughout. In BF2142 I often freeze in the middle of a gunfight and the next thing I know I'm dead. In BFH that has never happened. I also notice that this game seems to "pick favorites". What I mean is that certain people who are no more skilled than I am seem to be able to kill me and some others with great ease and many times inexplicably, given the circumstances from my point of view. I have also been on the other side of this where I log in one day and I own everyone and everything even when it seemed that the other person appears to, and logically should have the upper hand. Also, it seems that I can kill this one guy over and over again but not some other guy who is no more or less skilled. It's like our pings mesh in a certain way or something that gives one of us pretty much a consistent automatic superiority in a head-to-head battle.

    By the way, in BFH I have never come across a situation where I thought that I died inexplicably, whereas in 2142 there are thousands of instances of me dying with no logical explanation. Same type of thing of the orbital that kills you and not others and stuff like that.

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Wonderful post! THIS is what I think of when I think about a war simulation. Personally I really dislike bleed due to flag control, and if I could I'd see it removed from the game. In-game I must admit I can be a little reckless on the attack, but I always shake my head when multiple squads just throw their bodies on a well defended flag. I generally game by the phrase 'no risk no gain' but theres still risks not to take, you gotta use your head. I for one feel this 'paradigm shift' is just whats needed, as it brings more realism to the experience. In real life your enemies aren't going to disappear just because you hold two more bases than them, they disappear because you removed them. I feel this shift would help create a more satisfying gaming atmosphere and lead to more brilliant and creative tactics in-game. Flanking and ambushes are woefully underused in game and I think thats a shame, since both are excellent ways (if used properly) to kill your opponent with minimal loss.
    Good Luck. You're gonna need it ^_^

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Quote Originally Posted by pred011586 View Post
    I often get people in-game who ask me why I always go for Statue on Belgrade at the start. My reasons are exactly what you're talking about. I don't care if the rest of my team can't cap 2 other flags to keep the flags even. Statue is the easiest flag to defend on the map, and provides a Walker for the defenders, as well as being tactically placed in the middle of the map, allowing for a beautiful staging point to Com, Ruins, and Playground. Maybe now I won't often be the only SL that goes for the flag!
    Pred, ironic that you and I were having this exact discussion in game the other day. I don't SL a lot, but when I do on Belgrade, I will typically run a Statue defense squad thanks to running in yours so many times. While relatively easy to defend, it is a great platform to launch long distance attacks on Ruins and Playground in support of friendly squads trying to capture those flags.

    Great thoughts, Crux. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
    |TG-55| Infantry Division - Captain





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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    that post is how my brain works for 2142, even the messy parts
    Reapator, overlord of ponies


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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Good points Crux, some food for thought...

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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    Wow. Thanks crux

    |TG| Sproge "Tiger how did you flip that tank?!"
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    Re: Paradigm Shift: Rethinking the Way We Approach BF2142 in TG

    While I think your post poses some interesting questions about self-reflection, your aim seems somewhat unclear to me. Unfortunately, your last paragraph, 'proof', is surely its downfall.

    You allude to preparing everybody to the skill and tactical-mindedness of the 3rd, which although is fantastic in theory, in practice is unlikely to happen. Surely it is for this reason that in-house-squads exist, to shape that tactical-mindedness you write about for a manageable number of people who are likely to be able to take this mindset onboard. Indeed, you say that you base selection into the 3rd on K/D ratio, implying that those who die less are likely to think the way you and the 3rd do, and thus flipped, would imply that those who die much more are unlikely to think in the way that you would want.

    I'm interested to know if you think it's a realistic aim.
    In Order to Dance



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