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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - Tactics and Missions Discussion - The Baur. - A person with their defib out is a person who is not shooting back. It
  1. #106

    LordKelvin's Avatar

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    Re: The Baur.

    A person with their defib out is a person who is not shooting back. It should be a relatively simple maneuver to engage from a distance with the Baurs on single shot, then, while they are running about reviving or lying dead, sprint in with nades flying, and cleanup and cap with the Herzog attachment.



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  3. #107

    Lyramion's Avatar

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    Re: The Baur.

    ...or I could use my Sniper Rifle and camp the body. Then headshot the revived guy. Then headshot the reviving guy. Then camp their body and headshot the other people coming to get the body!

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  5. #108

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    Re: The Baur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    Psh. It cannot compare to the brilliance of this.
    Touche.
    ....

    Infantryman's Guide: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5
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  7. #109

    Zoraster's Avatar

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    Re: The Baur.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKelvin View Post
    Why is everyone so deathly afraid of long-range combat? Perhaps a sniper squad is not very effective because it cannot put out a large volume of fire, but a squad of Baurs could keep an entire squad down from a fair distance away, without the need for rocket tracers.

    I didn't discuss rockets and nades in my previous post because they are available to everyone... Thus they have no bearing on the effectiveness of a main gun, because they are universal supplements that any assault can have.
    I'll tackle the last point first: I know that everyone has nades. But they DO have a bearing on the effectiveness of the main gun. But in any given fight you only have so much time to engage an enemy. If I throw a nade, for the time it takes to do this, I'm not firing bullets (or rockets). The same theory holds true for rockets: if I'm firing rockets, I'm not at the exact same time firing bullets. (See bottom for more)

    Next, long range fighting is less preferable for a number of reasons. The first and primary one is the one that's already been mentioned: it is far less effective at gaining tickets... especially when you're dealing with bullets. Second, attempting to engage at long range is time consuming and requires extra time to aim and kill. This extra time can be time that others are attacking you. It's not always the case, but it often is... as a general rule, standing still for longer than absolutely necessary is a bad policy.

    ---

    So, let me put it another way. Say you're engaging an enemy long distance. If you had all weapons at your disposal in this engagement, you'd choose to shoot with a Baur first, throw a nade second. The nade is the lesser of the two options, but say it's still an effective one. Now return to reality. You've either got a Baur or a Voss. In the long distance engagement, you chuck that nade if you've got a Voss and you fire with the Baur if you've got it. But now you enter into a close quarter engagement, and there's no "almost as good" choice for close up -- you could theoretically use a herzog, but then you're giving up rockets which is a pretty stupid deal... even with the long range power of the baur (the baur, alas, does not have the ability to air burst at targets behind walls).

    Now to try and clarify your options at range. (1= best choice)
    Long Range
    Voss:
    1. Rockets
    2. Nades
    3. Avoid Engagement/Close Distance
    4. Terrible Voss shooting.
    Baur:
    1. Good Baur bullets on single shot
    2. Rockets (a close second, and often a better choice than the baur if there's any backdrop at all)
    3. Nades

    Medium Range
    Voss:
    1. So-so Voss shooting
    2. Nades
    3. Rockets
    4. Close distance/Avoid engagement
    Baur:
    1. So-so Baur shooting
    2. Nades
    3. Rockets
    4. Lengthen distance/Avoid engagement

    Close quarters
    Voss:
    1. Awesome voss shooting
    2. Run with medpack out and pray
    Baur:
    1. Terrible Baur shooting
    2. Run with medpack out and pray.

    My point is that long distance, being forced to use a crappy Voss is only the fourth option because there are several others that are really quite compelling. But a short distance, being forced to use a crappy Baur is really your only option.

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  9. #110

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    Re: The Baur.

    The Baur was actually my first weapon unlock way back when. A lot of friends said to get the Voss, but for one reason or another, I got the Baur. I still don't have the Voss unlocked, and the only time I can use it is if I pick it up in a pack.

    Until recently, I used the Baur all the time as Assault, and I've always loved it. Specifically for the single shot accuracy at medium to long range. Close in, I have to spray with it, and like was said, can get 2 people, but not 3. If I expect to be in a CQB a lot, I just grab my Clark, but that's neither here or there.

    I saw several suggestions to use the Krylov as the PAC, and I have done this since. I really am surprised at how good it is. Every time I am on PAC now, it's in my pack.

    So all in all, I love the Baur. Maybe if I someday decide to unlock the Voss, I'll be able to give the 2 a fair comparison, but I wanted the Pilum, Clark and SAAW first, so my unlocks have gone to those.
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  11. #111

    <FHC]==0 HighNoon's Avatar

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    Re: The Baur.

    3 people is well within the range of the baur's capacity. Now 4 is starting to push it but if 2 is your limit you should spend some time reflecting on how to improve your CQC.

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  13. #112

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    Re: The Baur.

    Saying that taking the Herzog instead of rockets is stupid is like saying taking the shotty over the lmg is stupid. Both have their place. Baur is stronger at range, so to make up for its lack of ammo close in, pack a Herzog, it's like having a second gun in your kit and is just as devastating as the Clark without the need to give up your medic capabilities.

    I'm not advocating static long-range combat. I'm advocating engaging from long-range to weaken the defense and push in while maintaining a solid offensive capability. The Baur isn't terrible in CQC, it just has less bullets. Use the Herzog and suddenly you can kill 4-5 people on your own too before having to reload. This is why I say the Voss is unbalanced. The Baur can be used up close and at range (not on many targets, but still effective at both ranges) while the Voss is only good up close. I'll choose the precision option over the garden hose any day, not to mention the power of the Baur up close is nuts if your aim is good. Two bullets to the head leaves that prone LMG spammer or Voss bunny dead and you unscathed.

    Actually, I'll choose the SCAR11 or Krylov over either any day. Medium range is where I like to engage, and I carry Herzog if I expect to run in closer or rockets if I need to engage from further away.

    Btw, quick note to those of you that can't hit anything with the SCAR11: The SCAR has a large vertical deviation, even on single shot, similar to the Baur although not as powerful. You need to aim generally slightly lower amd let the recoil throw the bullets into the target. It has very little sideways deviation and is therefore also good for hip-shooting. In contrast, the Krylov has very little vertical deviation, so what you see is what you get when aiming at a certain bodypart, but has immense sideways deviation. The worst thing you can do with a Krylov is to be hip-shooting while strafing. I guarantee you will waste the whole clip and not get more than one or two hits.



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  15. #113

    FLIPmode's Avatar

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    Re: The Baur.

    Herzog is nothing compared to the Clark. Clark as a shotgun outclasses Herzog. Not to say that the Herzog sucks but is isn't as good. Voss is great at medium range. It is where I get most of my kills with the gun.

    You are handicapping yourself by choosing the scar 11 over the krylov. Any expert at the game (even our resident oracle) will tell you that the krylov is the superior gun. And if you are hip shooting while straffing...well you shouldn't be doing that

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  17. #114

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    Re: The Baur.

    There was a time Herzog was pretty good compard to clark. It was the tiemframe after the NS unlock for 4 shots was introduced but before the clarks speed got enhanced. During that timeframe the Herzog had a higher shooting frequency than the clark. Making them about even. Then Dice turned the Clark into an absolute monster by matching its speed to the Herzog.

    And despite all calls. A VOSS on Singleshot is still accurate over long distances.

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  19. #115

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    Re: The Baur.

    Why people use Voss imo is that it goes so well with Krylov, not that it is superior gun. I try to keep all my weapon KDs positive so I play all of them (medic's, support ones are pain in butt), so I have times when I play Baur and when I play Voss and just switch from Krylov to Baur is horrible.

    Krylov has given me best shootout moments, but unfortunately it is rather vulnerable in close combat 1on1, luckily you can hip + move so thats huge + too.

    With Baur its more of when you actually start hitting your target, he is pretty much dead if you can handle the accuracy change it is good, and putting it so-so with Voss on medium range is like saying Voss and Baur are both okay on close range!

    I'm getting my Voss time up again, and I can tell that I have no skill to use the Baur like its supposed until I take the time and forget the ''easy-mode'' that Voss gives to you. And why would anyone have a shot to run out and pray from close combat fight?? If they haven't seen you go and kill them! If they have well, you are 100% dead when you turn your back on them (unless you do the super obstacle course tricks over fence and stuff)

    I think LEHF made up my (and many others) point very well:
    Quote Originally Posted by L.E.H.F. View Post
    Voss is easy to use, Baur take some getting used to.
    It's more who holds the gun then wich is better of the two.

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  21. #116

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    Re: The Baur.

    Name a time when picking the Herzog over rockets is the better choice. I have some of my biggest long term close engagement battles where a shotgun would be great in the buildings around com tower in belgrade. But even then, I want my rockets because I get tons and tons of kills on playground and to a lesser extent com tower. Not to mention the game changes quickly, and I'll likely be out of those buildings shortly anyway, and I'll definitely want rockets.

    And saying this isn't remotely like saying the clark should never be picked over the lmgs/hmg. Even the worst assault rifles (SCAR) are fairly good at instant close up battles where if you get the first shot you have a good likelihood of winning. The LMG/HMG is going to get you dead every time.

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  23. #117

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    Re: The Baur.

    The Herzog is good precisely because of those buildings on Belgrade, if you want to use that example. In all likelihood, if you are rocketing Com Tower or Playground or Ruins from Statue but not actually pushing in, those people will be revived and you net no ticket loss for their team, you just inflate your score. Now, lets say you do push in. Most of your squad has rockets, but you (for arguments sake) have the Herzog. 5 sets of rockets is plenty of cover and time for you to get to that building. You run in, and if you have a UAV or IDS up, you know where the enemies are. You use your main gun to surprise and kill them. Then you whip out the Herzog, and use it to camp the people you killed. When the revive lemmings run to revive their squadlead, you pop them in the head with your Herzog (which has 4 shots with NS unlock, so thats enough for 2-3 people!). Now proceed to reload with the knowledge that you have just definitively caused ticket loss for your enemy.

    Your kills don't matter, its how many of them actually stay dead that counts. The Herzog lets you make sure of this. Add a Herzog to a Baur and you can engage from long-range with a squad, use their cover to close the distance, and finish up with devastating close range power while still being able to heal yourself and rez your comrades.



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  25. #118

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    Re: The Baur.

    well, I agree that it's how many who stay dead that count (with the possible exception of a fast flag cap), but that seems to be +1 for rockets over the herzog. Unlike one shotting from long distance, I can generally keep people down with my rockets and get kills off of those reviving. It's not perfect: if they're super quick and nearby (though not so near my rocket killed them), I don't have time to reload and fire. But overall, it's really very efficient at causing ticket loss for the enemy.

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  27. #119

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    Re: The Baur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    Name a time when picking the Herzog over rockets is the better choice.
    I'd say somewhere between 7 and 8 on this chart. Of course for me it was more like 17 and 18.

    Yes, yes, I understand we're talking about Baur + Rockets and one can't get the former without the latter but you didn't specify that in the question above.

    But in a broader sense I think what is missing in this discussion is a perspective on the unlock system; None of the weapons are superior to every other weapon in every instance. A good unlock system, which BF2142's is with some minor exceptions, does not provide an "I Win" button to the people who have gone deeper into the tree. They give them more options. Some compliment the player's style, some don't.

    In most cases of infantry action it is the player's choices on the field, not their choices before getting to the field, that determine the outcome of each engagement. Personally I am finding I prefer the Krylov, the Voss and the Turcotte/Malkov. Not in that order. I also can't stand running my support because that's the only kit on which I have heavy armor. I am a rush and gunner. Sniper rifles, the Baur at distance, even rockets frustrate me. I play them from time to time as I do enjoy them in moderation but I prefer to be mobile with decent short-to-medium engagements. Or, put another way, debate the long range merits of the Baur and Rockets all you want, in my hands it don't mean squat. And it is my hands, or your hands, or the other guy's hands, that completes the equation of which weapon works in each situation at the most basic level.
    Last edited by Greyed; 06-26-2009 at 09:22 AM. Reason: Added in Malkov, it's the SMGs regardless of side...

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  29. #120

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    Re: The Baur.

    Yea, I use the Scar if I am on EU, then Baur on PAC. The Scar is a smaller version of the Baur, so it isn't quite the recoil and has slightly more bullets.



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