Zhohar

Running a very high kill/death ratio requires only one thing: not caring about teamwork or winning.

It isn't high science: once you stop caring about capping flags and doing other high-risk or low-reward tasks necessary for the team's well-being, you can pick and choose your engagements to minimize risk and maximize reward.

Whether or not it is TG-like to not care about the team is another discussion. You asked how to be a machine in terms of KD.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Holy

Thanks Fl1p and Jengles. Your words of wisdom have helped me.

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MrJengles

You're welcome, Holy, I can assure you it has lead to a number of hilarious rounds when I act that way for their entirety.

EDIT: Alright Zho, I changed it...didn't make much sense after you did.

Crux

Frankly I think this is rubbish. Just pure rubbish.

I care about a high K/D ratio BECAUSE I care about teamwork and winning. Teamwork - moving together with a squad and reviving each other. Winning - eating away the other team's tickets by killing them a lot and dieing very little.

As I've pointed out in one of the threads in my sig, the average game isn't decided by who holds the most flags - that is only a determining factor in extreme cases. Most of the time it is the team that does a better job of managing their K/D ratio as a team that wins.

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Zoraster

I agree with Crux. Good K/D ratios have as much to do with getting revived a lot as they do with killing lots. That's true for two reasons: (1) obviously you have fewer deaths; (2) when you know you're going to be able to get revived, you can put yourself into situations that are going to get you more kills.

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|TG-Mth| Zoraster | .

FL1Pmode

I must disagree with Zho as well. I get a good K/D because I cover the revivers going for revives, I kill those who stand on the flag radius that we are trying to cap. And I kill to make sure that we defend the said flag properly. If we are on the move because of a SL or CO, I am on the lookout for stragglers who are in our way that will not get revived.

All while making sure people get revived with my defib and get healed up with my medkit. Multitasking for the win, although SL'ing requires more multitasking that I can handle

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Zhohar

No they don't. Getting revived means you made a mistake. Mistakes are entering a high-risk situation willingly. Usually, people enter high-risk situations because they are either inexperienced enough not to understand what they're doing, or they understand the risk and believe the reward to be worth dying for.

I'm not advocating lonewolfing or a lack of teamwork. People have to die in order to get things accomplished. I think the Allies knew full well that the D-Day invasions of Normandy would get people killed. I think quite a few of the invaders knew what they were doing was tantamount to suicide. But people need to die to achieve larger objectives.

This thread, and the maker of it, specified he wants advice on how to achieve high KD. So I put it forward. The optimum way of achieving 0 deaths is to focus on that, and not the team.

This is, of course, not to say that we shouldn't strive for as high a KD as possible -- like Crux said, most tickets are taken by deaths and not by bleed. We as TGers place the team first, though, and not the pursuit of a high KD. People who can excel at both are usually exemplary players. They are able to multi-task at a very high level.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Zoraster

Getting revived is not the sign of some sort of weakness or indication of a mistake. Playing scared is a sign of weakness. Revives are part of the game... a pretty cool part of it. A squad that utilizes revives is one that is operating efficiently. A squad that treats revives as some sort of necessary evil is not doing so.

That's not to say I entirely disagree with you. The game is all about taking calculated risks. But I don't think that getting revived is a "mistake" at all. In an assault on a defended flag, I fully expect at least a couple of my members to go down and get revived. If my squad is working really well, then I won't lose a ticket doing this.

You're correct in one respect: if your only goal is to maximize K/D ratios, then being ultra cautious may be a way to do that. But I didn't get the impression he's talking about people who go 4-0 in their games.* I think he's talking about people who go 23-3, 22-4 whatever. And those people aren't achieving this through never putting themselves in harm's way (unless they're going armor in an infantry map). They're doing so, usually, with the help of revives for exactly the reasons I've stated.

Take the typical standoff situation in Camp G on defense. A person can get a pretty good K/D ratio because he's using rockets... easily in the 25+ kill range. He'll probably die a dozen times as well, but because he's around teammates who will revive him easily, it's rare that those deaths equate to tickets lost. That's not saying he's made a mistake all those times he's gotten revived.

*"massive amounts of kills with comparatively few deaths"

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|TG-Mth| Zoraster | .

Zhohar

Or, I can show you screenshots from 2-3 days ago with 40/3, 37/4 and 45/5 that I achieved without putting myself in harm's way, without being revived, without using armor.

Key point I'm trying to make is: if a high KD is the only objective, the #1 way to achieve it is to focus solely on that, and not other ideas such as teamwork, capping flags, or helping the team.

I do agree that this is not what TacticalGamer stands for, but it is a point we need to acknowledge.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Crux

But if you 45/5 then you ARE helping your team. There are more ways to help your team than by doomrushing a heavily defended flag. Playing carefully and picking off the enemy while staying safe is a very TACTICAL way to play the game.

And frankly, I can get crazy K/D ratios both ways - by running around forcing my way into those high-pressure caps, AND by being the surgeon - cutting away tickets from the other team through careful, precise play.

I just think your assertion that the only way to do it is by being a selfish player no caring at all about teamwork is bull.

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Zhohar

I'm certain high KDs are possible while teamworking (and that they contribute to teamwork -- we as a community demonstrate this regularly), but that is not the optimum way to achieve the highest KD possible.
Staying out of high-risk situations and exploiting people who make small mistakes is.

I am saying that given that we focus on teamwork, and then our KD, we would perform better in terms of KD if we'd solely focused on that. Of course, at that point, we're not focusing on the team ... hence denying ourselves the reason we are a part of this community.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Crux

That's a tactic. It isn't teamwork, or a lack of teamwork. I do this often with my squads. We work around the edges and cull lots of tickets from the enemy team while staying in controlled, low risk situations. I call that smart tactical play, executed with a high degree of teamwork.

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LordKelvin

Who's BSing the tags again?

I'm going to stay out of the debate within a debate going on here and just say that in my opinion the more dedicated buddies you have, the longer you are in business. And the longer you are in business, the more enemies you can eliminate. How you choose to do this is somewhat irrelevant as long as those enemies stay eliminated. If I see a guy in the middle of the road, I might be able to smack him with a buggy, shoot him with my AR, or Rorsch him. If I want to minimize my risk and maximize his penalty, I will Rorsch him. These decisions have to be made on the fly, and that only comes with experience usually. I still often make the wrong decision.

Lastly, do not be afraid to run away. I mean it. I keep alive both in armor and on foot by running so far away that the enemy stops following me, thinking it's not worth it. That's when I heal or repair up and hit them as their sauntering back to their flag. Play with people's expectations and you will have the upper hand. The rest is just smart playing skill that will come in time. In short, learn to pick your fights, and you will achieve the high K/D you desire.

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Why MTG has lost any sense of balance:
Lotus Cobra

Zhohar

It's a way of playing: doing things only that benefit your score or KD.

While doing so, you may pulll revives, cap flags, or help the team but this is only the end goal of padding your score. If breakthrough occurs, a lonewolfer won't spawn on a back flag, though that would be beneficial in slowing or stopping the enemy, because it's a high-risk situation with little reward to his score. The lonewolfer stays where he is, kills people around him, and then falls back with the rest of the masses so that he can have a pubbie meatshield buffer ahead of him.
At the same time, the lonewolfer may revive a squad leader (or five) if he feels the risk is sufficiently low because it'll benefit his score.

This is obviously parasitic gameplay, and the only objective it achieves is a high KD. But it is the optimum way to acquire a high KD. Not the only, but the optimum.

Feels like I'm repeating myself here.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Mercenary90

A few further questions to throw more nitroglycerine into the fire:

Does a squad focused purely on kill-mongering help a team more than a squad focused purely on aggressive flag-capping? For example, does a kill-focused squad aid two flag-capping squads?

Is there a "best" way to balance a high K/D with teamwork? Can this be described in words?

How does a squad that moves aggressively and penetrates enemy lines to seek better positioning (flanks, etc.) perform (K/D wise) in comparison to a squad that hangs back and picks people off like Zho described?

Do purely kill-mongering squads function better with a certain number of people? How does this number compare to an aggressive squad? Why?

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He was told that he should not kill, and he did not kill, until he got into the Army. Then he was told to kill, and he killed.