Zhohar

Courtesy of the lovely Friday Armor Maps event, we've been exposed to an interesting beast of a game: Minsk 64p Conquest. I'd like to start a discussion on how to best approach the game on round start and the ultimate goals of either team after breakthrough. Of course, both of these concepts are team related, so do mention who you're speaking about.

This is just a couple of observations I've had from the very limited playtime I've had on the map.

1. It is a fun, and refreshing map. No stalemates, and very interesting geography.
2. Breakthrough is simple via north buggy rush to Hill.
3. PAC's goal after breakthrough should be to control the high-ground flags: EU HQ, Ghost Town, and Roadblock. If EU sets up properly here with APCs, it is very painful for PAC.
4. It is difficult to hold high-ground unless it is actually man-defended: there are so many avenues of approach that it's difficult to clog them up with armor/mines.
5. If it's not possible to gain high-ground as PAC, try to fight it out on low-ground flags.

Share your ideas and observations. I think this is a really fun map and I wouldn't mind seeing it replace Shuhia and Verdun in our current rotation.

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

LogicalHarm

Minsk does have fantastic geography, and provides great ground for non-city based infantry battles and great armor engagements. The higher ground wouldn't be present in the 32p version and so would obviously change the overall strategy somewhat.

In general the strategy I tend to take is a north buggy rush to Hill, capping it, and then turning fire towards outpost. Having the flank on that chokepoint is a crucial aspect, and leading a successful rear-attack on Outpost from Hill relieves units there and opens the road for UCB armor.

From then on, on the 64 player map I'd move to EU Headquarters at the top of the map, which I find to be an easy cap as there's almost always a free APC there. Capping that denies EU of their gunship, and gives you a great launching point on the next two flags of that section, Ghost Town and Roadblock - both relatively easy to take on foot (and also a joy to attack on foot).

As you note Zhohar, the higher ground gives you a nice position over the rest of the map, especially Hill.

Overall, the map is dominated by FAV's and APC's, with tanks and walkers having little to do with the fight to the north, and having a hard time in the trees in the south. Take control of the north, place some APC's on the ridge and you've got a formidable force right there.

I know I'd like to see it in the main rotation.

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Mr.Ander50n

Taking EU base and taking air superiority is a major win on this map, since the gunship will vitrually have free reign over what targets to take out from afar. Also, since the map is set up to have a few flags that are of more significance than others (IE high ground flags), being able to call in air support on these targets, and clear the way of tanks/apc's/infantry for your advancing line is an invaluable asset.

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LogicalHarm

Not sure about this. In all the time I've spent on this map, gunships haven't really played a big part. Though, for pac, having a great gunner would be crucial for an all out attack on outpost to take out the APCs.

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Azura

From my observation, (Same goes for Competitive Play) PAC's initial assault is key to victory. Though speed is of the highest importance, combined arms can compensate very well and generally is less risky than the hasty zerg against front lines. Minsk displays the true TG teamwork we all love, communication of Squadleaders via Commander, tight infantry squads (with good marksmanship), coordinated vehicle assaults, and mixed equipment. One key element will not win the map, nor would it give you a true upper hand, patience and proficient micromanage will.


The first priority of PAC if they so choose to take the path of storming frontlines is, to quickly destroy enemy Armor BEFORE EU can reinforce Frontlines with Armor from the rear. There is one APC and one Walker at Frontlines, both primarily anti infantry. The EU have two tanks at South Outpost (20 seconds drive) and one Tank and one Walker located at Hill, about 15 second drive. With that, PAC armor will not take place in the initial destruction of the Frontlines armor due to their distance. It will require a balanced force of Assault, Engineers, and a fast acting Gunship.

Let's say we break up Frontlines into four different Objectives, each specific to Infantry, Armor, Gunship, and "Spec Ops."

Infantry: Whether they zerg from the north or the south, they need to balance out engineers and assaults and quickly overwhelm the opposition with speed and accuracy. Their biggest threat will be the APC, with it's large kill radius and range. Infantry on Infantry fighting shouldn't be a problem, just like any other TG engagement, teamwork will win. But, the PAC need to gain ground fast and avoid "digging in" because of enemy fire. Their primary goal should be that flag whether directly or indirectly, they need to get out of the trenches and storm the tower. Engineers should pack Motion Mine Bait and send it down range when ever possible, the faster they clear a route, the sooner they will be reinforced by friendly armor from the inevitable EU counter attack.

Gunship: The gunship needs to be deployed as fast as virtually possible, the sooner that gunship can get into that battle and deliver the most important TV Missile of the match, the better off the ground pounders will be. Priority number one is that damned APC! Not only will the APC slaughter the infantry, many foot soldier pod out behind the charging infantry. With a bit of courage, the gunship should have no problem knocking out that APC. With a bit of luck, they will be able to engage (or draw attention) the walker before the enemy gunship enters the firefight. From there on out, constant harassing of the armor should be adequate.

Armor: The route to the frontlines is a long one. The PAC have 3 tanks and 1 APC, just perfect for an organized armor squad. Obviously the armor needs to rapidly deploy and begin support of frontlines, BUT the armor needs to stick together and be extremely cautious until a good break is formed. Losing a piece of this armor cookie will have extremely terrible results, and the chance of the flag being re secured is heightened. Not only will spawn times take affect, but the long ass haul back there. The APC should maintain situational awareness and be cautious of slaughtering team mates, but their focus should be sweeping up the clusters of infantry, clearing the rorsch/AA turrets, and perhaps launching a spec ops squad leader. The tanks, should harrass the enemy as much as possible, but their main goal is preventing the additional EU armor, AFTER the flag switches. A rush in would not be good, as the enemy can easily spawn behind the tanks.

Spec Ops: I believe they can go one of two ways. On a smaller scale, they can proceed past the flags and try to occupy the enemy armor. Set up a beacon way off the beaten trail, instead of capping flags constantly take the armor from the enemy and hit them in the bottom. Or they can go for a flag, either way their main goal is to pull the enemy out of frontlines, and begin scattering the EU forces. Even if that means shooting a few EU soldiers and then just book it, and run for their lives while a squad or two chase them.

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LordKelvin

From flying the gunship for a few minutes on this map (against AB, no less), I've discovered that the gunship crosses the map in a matter of seconds due to the fact that the entire out of bounds area between EU HQ and PAC UCB is still in-bounds for air units.

Given a lucky spawn, the two gunships would likely meet somewhere near Hill and promptly engage each other. There is, also, a tremendous amount of stuff to hide behind with a gunship to pop out and TV unsuspecting armor. Lastly, the EU gunship sits out on a pad in the middle of nowhere with no cover, and as we quickly discovered it is woefully easy for the enemy gunship to strafe the pad and destroy the gunship before you can even take off. If EU doesn't hold EU HQ, it should be its first priority to get it back, otherwise the game is lost.

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Why MTG has lost any sense of balance:
Lotus Cobra

Mr.Ander50n

I agree with Kelvin. Having a competant gunner and pilot in the gunship can prove very useful, due to the many places a gunship can hide (as well as height). Peeking out and nuking a tank here and there can make it a lot easier for pac armor and infantry can advance.

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Lyramion

Thought of the day:

IF we played Minsk regularly on TG I bet there would be EMP Mines guardins the buggy rush route. It has a very tight timeframe if you do it by TG rules (> not switching out drivers out of bounds)

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Ponies need you !

LogicalHarm

Yes, this is a problem. There is more than one route though.

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