Re: Squad Leader and Pointman

**MrJengles** · 07-14-2009, 10:12 PM

I have a rather aggressive tendancy in this game; I find myself running in first quite often (other than when I find players faster than myself). This results in quite a lot of deaths on my part - although I certainly have been trying to be more aware of running away from fights to stay alive. Going first means you see the situation first, other than on the mini-map, and anyone who ends up going first can be extremely helpful by pointing things out to the SLer, or suggestions to the squad.

For example, if I run around a corner and am promptly shot by 6 people, I say "grenade them, there's lots on my body," it is useful to my squad. However, I can then be overuled by the SLer who might decide to flank them and tells the squad to go a different way, leaving me for dead XD Or I may have simply said "there are too many, it may be better to go a different route" in the first place, and been agreed or dismissed as the SLer sees fit.

The point is, anyone can give valuable suggestions which can be followed by the squad, unless the SLer says otherwise. This gives you more flexibility for the leader position to fall on anyone, at any time, and not have to wait for a specific person sometimes. Also, if they die when you were relying on their orders, you are worse off.

In the mean time, if you had a SLer, a pointman, and people giving advice, all about the same objective...how long do you think before confusion sets in about who you're meant to be listening to? SLers that hold back have the same awareness you do, as long as you add VOIP intel to the map intel.

As for fireteams and a pointman, the SLers focus is entirely somewhere else on the map and he is not around to overule anything because he hasn't got the awareness to do so. Therefore, it is useful to know who does, and a pointman is the right way to go in that situation.

**SIDIOUS** · 07-28-2009, 12:17 AM

it works pretty well actually L.E.H.F. is my point man and for those of you who have met him down a dark alley know if you do get to kill him the flood isnt over just cause ya got your boots wet

**Mercenary90** · 07-28-2009, 01:20 AM

The Point Man idea is best when you're heading into a flag or hot zone. Otherwise, you'll have to rely on constantly instructing your point man where to go and how, which wastes a lot of time.

**Zhohar** · 07-28-2009, 02:04 AM

While squad leading, I've found that most of my deaths are more directly related to a lack of self-control in engaging targets than to my relative squad position. That is: I die more often when I choose to shoot at a fella and I know it's kind of on the risky side ... than I do running headlong into an enemy and dying.

I think you're trying to prevent dying as an SL with this pointman idea, and I think you're going about it in the wrong way. Couple of tips on staying alive:
- run an IDS yourself and pay close attention to it. Press n like a psycho.
- choose not to engage all except the truly low-risk targets.
- learn to recognize when you should run directly backward, the way you came

It sounds like I'm advocating being a little girl all the time, and that's not quite true. Give yourself time to build up self-confidence and to warm up your shooting skills on low-risk targets. Then move up, and go Rambo.

**Fruvous** · 07-28-2009, 02:40 AM

I agree with Zhohar somewhat
-Pointmen, as described in the first post, is designed to keep the SL (and by extension, a spawn point) alive. This means the squad is operating with 5 instead of 6.. and sometimes without a clear direction since the SL isn't actively participating.
-Knowing how not to die is a better alternative. Personally, I would like to know how not to die.
-IDS is teh ****. It's like that hack that I use that gives me Xray vision. Use IDS as often as you think the Xray hack is useful.. which is all the time.
-low-risk targets is a small part of prioritizing targets.. albeit a good rule of thumb. Some high-risk or lowrisk+hightime targets are worth endangering the SL.

However, I disagree that the only purpose that a Pointman does is preventing SL death. [opens story book]
Every time I play Minsk defense, I run a squad called North.
Every time (except once) I played Minsk defense, did any SL make a dedicated South squad.. or adapt their plan to do it.

That is when I designate my extra IDS support and 2 members to go south.. support as the point leader. It usually works well.. it's easy enough for a side to ask for help in case if things get too hectic.
I can recall a few times it didn't work.. but the point is, in the games where it did work, noone got past Frontline because of it. In the games where it didn't work, well.. people would've gotten past anyways because there was no dedicated S squad.

Zhohar, as a side note, you're going to make assaulting in Minsk/Berlin one heck a lot harder with your TGU IDS class.

**ninkybob** · 07-28-2009, 09:22 PM

Hmm, good idea. An SL as a mobile spawn beacon is a workable idea in theory, but I think it may be slightly more difficult to maintain control of the squad with two people in charge. It does, however, sound like a pretty good idea in a well oiled squad and I would love to see it in practice.
Practice is always better than theory.

**SharinganTH1422** · 07-31-2009, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Zhohar

Press n like a psycho.

Sorry, I don't use default controls...what is "n" supposed to do?

I'm guessing it picks it back up off of whatever you've thrown it on...

**Yaor890** · 07-31-2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by SharinganTH1422

Sorry, I don't use default controls...what is "n" supposed to do?

I'm guessing it picks it back up off of whatever you've thrown it on...

It zooms in and out of the minimap lol

**jazy2** · 07-31-2009, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Fruvous

...Zhohar, as a side note, you're going to make assaulting in Minsk/Berlin one heck a lot harder with your TGU IDS class.

Or a hell of a lot easier, sometimes people focus only on the minimap dots when an IDS is deployed and don't notice the decoyed recon sneak past. Especially if their vision is distorted by an EMP nade thrown just before the push!

**Fruvous** · 07-31-2009, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by jazy2

Or a hell of a lot easier, sometimes people focus only on the minimap dots when an IDS is deployed and don't notice the decoyed recon sneak past. Especially if their vision is distorted by an EMP nade thrown just before the push!

Wouldn't that recon have snuck past anyways??

**Zoraster** · 07-31-2009, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Fruvous

Wouldn't that recon have snuck past anyways??

He was kidding, but he was implying that people would become overreliant on the minimap. It's still possible to see cloakers.

**Fruvous** · 07-31-2009, 08:55 PM

Being overreliant on the minimap to find people?

Isn't that like.. being overreliant on weapons to kill people?

**FLIPmode** · 07-31-2009, 09:09 PM

I personally rely on the large map by pressing M or Capslock if I can't see something on the minimap...sometimes that helps

**SharinganTH1422** · 07-31-2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Fruvous

Being overreliant on the minimap to find people?

Isn't that like.. being overreliant on weapons to kill people?

A better analogy is like being overreliant on your main gun (lets say Assault rifle) to kill all enemies, all the time. It's obviously important, but it's not the be-all and end-all, and failure to use all resources at your disposal means you're level of play drops. There are lots of times when an IDS/the minimap is not what you should be using to see targets.

Originally Posted by FL1Pmode

I personally rely on the large map by pressing M or Capslock if I can't see something on the minimap...sometimes that helps

Indeed, I'm not even sure what I set the button as to make the minimap size change...maybe Q?

**Cavall** · 08-01-2009, 01:21 AM

I think I have a different definition of 'point man' than the rest of you guys... because I don't think a person on point has any real command authority. They don't 'lead' the squad, they're just the tip of the spear. The SL gives verbal commands and destinations but even in the most disciplined squads, people spread out and take slightly different paths (not drastic, I'm talking like 5-15m apart, taking different cover, two man flanking manouvers etc.). If a SL wants to take a building or position, he or she will say so and point man is the first in. That simple. When I play, I generally try to stay ahead of my SL anyways. Its not hard to change course, just watch the minimap with your peripherals and you can stay in front. Now its not possible to always be in front, especially when your squad is retreating or otherwise drastically changing direction, but keeping a body out front pulls fire from your SL. Not to mention having an experienced player up front allows for better first contact and intelligence due to the point man's specific abilities -- whether they are good shots or natural survivorlists. When splitting the squad into fireteams, THEN it might be a decent idea to utilize the pointman as the secondary fireteam's leader but, as the above posts have clearly described, the PM having command authority when in the main group is just too complicated for it to work effectively and regularly.

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