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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - Tactics and Missions Discussion - Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only - When you first think about what maps are good for infantry only, you'd be likely
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    Zoraster's Avatar

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    Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    When you first think about what maps are good for infantry only, you'd be likely to pick maps that are good for infantry only when you play normally. I'm not sure this is the case.

    Buggies are the primary concern. Most maps contain buggies or some form of vehicle, even when they're ostensibly "infantry" maps. These serve a number of purposes, but buggies in particular allow a map to become non-linear, spreading the map and making attacking possible. It is a decidedly harder job without buggies.

    The biggest example I can think of for a great infantry map on normal but a pretty cruddy map on infantry only is Cerbere. Normal cerbere features a buggy for EU (of limited use), a buggy for PAC (of definite use) and a walker (often hamstrung by the limited maneuverability, but still okay). The vehicles in this map help make up for PAC's disadvantage at trying to attack uphill under bleed.

    You might be tempted to say "but our breakthroughs on Cerbere are usually on foot!" This is probably true, but there are a couple of responses to this:
    1. Stopping the buggies and the walker require engineers on EU who cannot go support or assault, thus limiting infantry stopping power.
    2. The buggy's fast action can mean a squad can get up to a certain location and then run a lot faster. Even in situations where this buggy rush FAILS, it often strings out the defenders so that other squads are more able to break through.

    On the other hand, some armor maps can be a lot of fun infantry only. When I saw 32p Verdun loading, for example, I groaned at all the running. But the round I played in there was one of the more intense battles I've come across. Yes, it requires a good deal of running in the open, but once there (and you can get there pretty easily by foot... just takes a while with a lot of reviving), it's squad on squad action that's pretty high stakes. There's no APC or walker to easily wipe out anyone who dares make a push on the flag.

    Sometimes "infantry" maps aren't lessened in infantry only because one side is disadvantaged. Sometimes it's because it can make it a fairly two dimensional game.

    For example, in Belgrade, under normal circumstances, if there's a standoff... or if your side has only two flags, you can often take a buggy to an undefended back flag. Not so in infantry only. Knowing this, it can often become two huge waves of players throwing themselves at each other. It turns the map into a linear 1-2-3 progression.

    This isn't to say these observations are ALWAYS true, but I think they generally do hold true. So I thought I'd start the conversation by basically saying:

    What are the maps you think make good INFANTRY ONLY maps and why? When you consider this, consider the effect of not having any buggies, apcs, walkers, etc. and the consequences of this other than just meaning you can go assault without having to worry about getting wiped out by a scary machine (other than xperiment).

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    I think for infantry only maps, there should be no defense/assault type maps. Both sides have to work equally hard to get a flag.
    Flags should have infantry access to two flags at a time.
    The only exception to this is TinyVerdun, which I've never seen a game that wasn't fun. In my opinion, it works well because there is no wall that directly separates two forces (grr rocket wars).

    I highly agree that buggies make games nonlinear. It makes it tons easier to create a flanking spawn point, diverting enemy forces between several sides.. and diverting enemy assets from anti-infantry to anti-armor.
    If a team (usually with buggy) succeeds in getting back, but not in maintaining a flag, at the very least enemy forces are spread out (important for Cerbere/Verdun/Gibraltar/wtv).

    TinyTunis is sometimes fun. Squads just have to try something different.. otherwise it will almost always East takes Bridge, and pushes a tad too hard... (Why do we feel compelled to move in that grenade zone anyways? How many times has pushing that flag work?)
    Given that, there's not much 'else' you can do with TinyTunis..Early game back-flag rush is sometimes feasible, but always depends on luck. The sand pit is too dangerous mid-game.

    I would actually love to see an infantry-only Port Bavaria.. I don't know how it's possible without APCs, but. But. Infantry combat should be a blast in between all of those buildings.
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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    64 man minsk infantry only is epic.





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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    Problem with infantry only is that people get pushed out too easy, and its really hard to fight back if you don't get the off straight in the start. Especially Camp G and Shuhia can be pain without any transport vehicles... Still here we go:

    Tiny Verdun
    Big Tunis
    Camp Gib (tiny? no?)
    Belgrade (both sizes)
    Cerbere
    Fall of Berlin (!no apc = woot!)

    and maybe some big armor map too, always liked how Sidi turned out with infantry only.

    I think I missed some map but can't remember which if any at all... Also 100 ticket tiny maps might be good to run twice as they are so FAST. On MG 2x Mini Verdun didn't feel bad at all...

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    Verdun 16 - Balanced, intense, all around fun.

    Tunis 16 - Good change of pace, no hindered by no buggies.

    Belgrade 32 - Love this map, though no buggies to back flag makes it harder if the teams are unbalanced.

    Sidi 16 - Love this map, no idea why, probably because we never play it.

    Operation Shingle 32 - Still works without walkers / jeeps, EU has a tougher time.

    Berlin 32 - Not having the EU APC mortars of death actually make this more balanced, that said, still has large potential of a crossroads shutout if EU gives a solid defense.

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    do you mean 32 player belgrade specterr with 200 tickets or 64 player belgrade with 300? is there an advantage to the 200?

    anyway, i actually think camp g is probably about the same with and without vehicles. on the one hand, no buggies for trying to get past. On the other, the walker for EU always seems more effective for defending than the walker on PAC for attacking -- at least after capturing harbor.

    Cerbere I think should really be removed from the infantry only rotation... even though it's ordinarily my favorite map by quite some distance.

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    For example, in Belgrade, under normal circumstances, if there's a standoff... or if your side has only two flags, you can often take a buggy to an undefended back flag. Not so in infantry only. Knowing this, it can often become two huge waves of players throwing themselves at each other. It turns the map into a linear 1-2-3 progression.
    Having definite lines of battle is not always a bad thing, IMHO.

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyed View Post
    Having definite lines of battle is not always a bad thing, IMHO.
    Most times, I don't find line battles entertaining.

    Let's say Flag A and Flag B are the only flags on the map.. the only thing that separates them is a fence.
    That's how Belgrade might feel like, from Ruins to Com, from Com to Play (where it's probably gonna be at).
    Granted, the map becomes a lot less linear with Statue, which has direct access to flanking positions on any flag. I've played Infantry Only Belgrade twice.. I didn't see that gameplay come to life because neither side had bleed.

    (A little part of me dies every time I'm in a Gibi Rocknade war, or Cerbere assaulting command, or--)
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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    do you mean 32 player belgrade specterr with 200 tickets or 64 player belgrade with 300? is there an advantage to the 200?

    anyway, i actually think camp g is probably about the same with and without vehicles. on the one hand, no buggies for trying to get past. On the other, the walker for EU always seems more effective for defending than the walker on PAC for attacking -- at least after capturing harbor.

    Cerbere I think should really be removed from the infantry only rotation... even though it's ordinarily my favorite map by quite some distance.
    200 Tickets is better then the 300 ticket version on the simple basis that a close game of 200 or 300 tickets is still fun, while if the game is unbalanced 300 ticket games can really drag.

    Lyra said it best, in that its a risk/benefit ratio... 300 ticket games run a higher risk of stale gameplay without a great increase in the chance for better games.

    I agree with you on Cerbere, but Camp G is easier with buggies I think, often times you can't push all the way back to ruins but you can get to toll and relieve pressure from Harbour with a buggy, also EU is forced to spawn a couple eng so its easier for PAC to take and get out from under bleed.

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    16p Verdun is great. I've only played it three times but every one of them was awesome. A good combo of CQC and long-range battle. Playing as recon sniper especially is fun.

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    I like 32p Verdun as well. It takes a bit of work, but getting dug-in at Church can be a lot of fun, as is the fighting once you do get to a flag. The pressure of not having an instantly available safe non-SL respawn makes everything much more high-stakes and entertaining.

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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    Shuhia Taiba 'nuff said.

    Actually, excluding the back flags, there is a good balance of tight and spread areas, ambush locations, height advantages, and extremely important (and rewarding) firefights that would take place, that easily can become the end all of the map.


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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    I like Cerbere and Camp G, but as Infantry-Only they are a lot better if the <teams> are smaller.

    When you have 48 people on a 16p map, breaking through is next to impossible.

    That may be why you liked the 32p Verdun as IO, because there's room to maneuver and no brick-wall stalemate.
    .


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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    LoL another awesome thread Zoraster. Where the hell do you get them from???

    Smaller, more infantry-based maps (Camp G, Cerbere, FoB) suck on infantry only on the player count we play at because it's easy for a defending team to hole up when there are no vehicles to help balance the chances of the attacking side. Think of the Toll chokepoint suck-fests we have now and imagine if there were no buggy rushes or walkers...

    Belgrade isn't so bad since both teams attack a bunch of neutral flags on fairly even grounds. Big vehicle maps can be fun with infantry only actually since there are stretches of running, punctuated with suddenly terrifying and intense firefights, and the fact they aren't linear means defenders can't easily hole-up since they can usually be attacked from almost anywhere. Far more tactical and far less "LETS RUN INTO THE HAIL OF BULLETS AND SHOOT AS MUCH AS WE CAN BEFORE WE GET DESTROYED!!!"

    Edit: Spiff said it right, but with far fewer useless sentences
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    Re: Thoughts about maps for Infantry Only

    In infantry maps with lots of wide-open spaces like Verdun, the upgraded squad beacon is your friend. It's mine, at least. :P
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