Re: The Great Scar Debate

**Lyramion** · 07-21-2009, 08:42 PM

I am just upright telling him that the SCAR is a bad weapon.

If I hated him I woule tell everyone how great the SCAR is and enjoy my increased killcount on the server.

**black_Mirror** · 07-21-2009, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

I am just upright telling him that the SCAR is a bad weapon.

If I hated him I woule tell everyone how great the SCAR is and enjoy my increased killcount on the server.

Yeah i know.
It my reply was not about the posts how are in fact including informations.. more about this other stuff around

**Zoraster** · 07-21-2009, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by black_Mirror

This Thread kinda makes me a sad panda...
I mean why hating a weapon or the people using it and why hating those who hate it in response?
It´s a freaking weapon in a freaking game and no reason to go deeper in this topic than necessary.
If you like it, use it. If you don´t like it, don´t use it. It is in fact that simple Ladies and Gentleman. There is no invisible force putting a gun to your head and screaming " USE THE SCAR NOW! " i assume so just don´t do it if it makes you feel uncomfortable on your critical days

I apologize. I should have used a more congenial tone.

That said, if there's a thread on the efficiency of a weapon, disagreement should be accepted, and disagreement with that disagreement, etc.

But again, the tone should have been more respectful.

**Deterhek** · 07-21-2009, 09:07 PM

Nobody has answered my my long-range post I see, so am I right?

**black_Mirror** · 07-21-2009, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

I apologize. I should have used a more congenial tone.

That said, if there's a thread on the efficiency of a weapon, disagreement should be accepted, and disagreement with that disagreement, etc.

But again, the tone should have been more respectful.

Sure man i totally agree! I just wanted to remind people to keep this "discussion" on track

Personal experience is more than welcome, fact and numbers ( like ROF damage per bullet and stuff ) are also good ways to make things clear but i think we had all that already. Lyra also posted somewhere a link where you can read all the important stuff about the weapons in bf2142 but i can´t remember where that was anymore.

I apologize if my former post sounded like i want to point my finger on some one or want to be a smack-tard about that topic.. i just didn´t wanted to see another thread going off topic and people start to hate and flame around.
This said, thanks for listening

**Zoraster** · 07-21-2009, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Deterhek

I'm not trying to critisize the Krylov, I'm just saying that I can do things with the Scar that I just can't seem to handle with the Krylov. I'm mostly curious as to how people think that the Scar is so much worse than the Krylov. The Scar is more accurate at range at full auto, but less accurate on single-shot, and somehow people think that the Scar comes in 4th in the long-range competition. It has VERY little recoil, so using it on full auto (bursts of 4-5) is better than the single shot of the Krylov in my opinion. I have dropped targets as far as 150m with the Scar with burst fire, rather than single-shot. I know I couldn't do that with the Krylov. Another reason the Krylov isn't as capable at range is that it does far less damage than the Scar. By the time you fired your second shot the target could have healed himself, whereas the Scar doesn't give them that luxury: it fires multiple more damaging rounds with the same accuracy I find.

Since you asked for it

Perhaps we have different definitions of long range. If I can hit anyone with a burst, I don't really consider that long range. Perhaps medium-long range or some intermediate distance.

Looking at the numbers, I'm not sure you're correct.

Baur:
Min Damage: 22
Damage: 34
Damage Decreasing Distance 40m
Distance to minimum damage 70m

Voss:
Minimum damage 20
Damage 25
Damage Decreasing Distance 40m
Distance to minimum damage 65m

SCAR:
Minimum damage 20
Damage 29
Damage Decreasing Distance 35m
Distance to minimum damage 65m

Krylov:
Minimum damage 20
Damage 27
Damage Decreasing Distance 35m
Distance to minimum damage 70m

Looking at this, the SCAR at distance is more similar to the Voss than the Krylov and certainly the Baur. The Baur is the only rifle to do more damage than the others at the longest ranges (22 vs. 20). In addition, it does its minimum damage at a longer range than the Voss or SCAR (70m vs. 65m).

The Krylov also does its min. damage at the 70m mark.

So, if you're at 65m, the Krylov is actually doing more damage than the SCAR. If you're at 70m+, the Krylov is doing the same damage as the SCAR.

Source: http://www.2142-stats.com/BF2142+Info/Weapons/all.html

**SharinganTH1422** · 07-21-2009, 09:24 PM

LOOK WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO BLACK MIRROR!!!! YOU'RE MAKING HIM A SAD PANDA!!!

Sorry./off-topic late-night sillyness

If you like the gun no number of stats can make you worse with the gun. Technically it may or may not be as good as the other guns - I haven't looked at those numbers enough and haven't seen enough numbers to make a judgement on how good the SCAR is compared to the other guns - but sometimes just the feel of the gun can make all the difference to your play, so if you rule with a gun, then play with it.

You control the gun, the gun does not control you

P.S. Lyra, I repsect your knowledge, but the SCAR is the worst AR at long range? Worse than the Voss with its superior accuracy and easier to manage recoil? TBH I pretty much agree with you on the other points though (apart from maybe SCAR 3rd at close range, the Baur runs out of bullets too quick and RoF isn't high enough)

**Lyramion** · 07-21-2009, 09:58 PM

At long ranges the scar has 1 hugh flaw: The laser pointer dot

It´s ugly and freaking hugh. Often covering up all of what you want to shoot.

As you can see in Zors post the SCAR is the worst on long ranges.

Less damage than a Baur
Less Bullets than a Voss
Less minimum range than a Krylov

**Greyed** · 07-22-2009, 12:50 AM

Still trying to figure out why "Krylov" is in this post. Comparing the SCAR to the Krylov is like comparing apples to puppy dogs on which one makes a better engine degreaser. As was pointed out since you cannot equip both the SCAR and Krylov the comparison is SCAR, Voss, Baur, full stop.

Now if you want to include the Krylov on a comparative basis then why aren't we including the 2 SMGs, the 2 LMGs, the HMG, the Clark and the Lambert as well? Those are equally valid comparisons.

**Zoraster** · 07-22-2009, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Greyed

Still trying to figure out why "Krylov" is in this post. Comparing the SCAR to the Krylov is like comparing apples to puppy dogs on which one makes a better engine degreaser. As was pointed out since you cannot equip both the SCAR and Krylov the comparison is SCAR, Voss, Baur, full stop.

Now if you want to include the Krylov on a comparative basis then why aren't we including the 2 SMGs, the 2 LMGs, the HMG, the Clark and the Lambert as well? Those are equally valid comparisons.

I agree. Including Krylov is kind of disingenuous as obviously that's not a choice someone on EU has. But even given this, the numbers still bear out that the Voss at long range isn't less powerful. In fact, because the damage starts reducing at a larger distance (40 vs. 35), it's got a little less of a fall off. That said, the Voss also zooms in more (why? I have no idea) and the kick is a little more, making single shotting more difficult.

**LordKelvin** · 07-22-2009, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Zoraster

But even given this, the numbers still bear out that the Voss at long range isn't less powerful. In fact, because the damage starts reducing at a larger distance (40 vs. 35), it's got a little less of a fall off. That said, the Voss also zooms in more (why? I have no idea) and the kick is a little more, making single shotting more difficult.

*cough*majorly overpowered*cough*

And forgive me, my previous post was a bit over-the-top, I was merely upset already coming into the topic and kind of posted the first thing that came into my head, which happened to be an exaggeration...

**SharinganTH1422** · 07-22-2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

At long ranges the scar has 1 hugh flaw: The laser pointer dot

It´s ugly and freaking hugh. Often covering up all of what you want to shoot.

LoL, I thought that's a good thing! It's far easier to get a massive red dot on target than a small one with massive zoom and not very good accuracy, with the Voss you'll miss at long ranges even when the reticule is right on the enemy, this doesn't happen with the SCAR, and because the SCAR has probably the most manageable recoil in the game you can burst at long ranges.

Still, these are minor differences, especially at long range you use your rockets anyway so meh.

I think we can all pretty much agree on a couple of things:

1) The SCAR is not a bad gun, it's just that the other guns are better in quite a few departments, and the SCAR does not excel at much.

2) It's the user more than the gun itself, if you like it and play better with a certain gun, then you're not suddenly gonna become rubbish when using it.

**Lyramion** · 07-22-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Greyed

Still trying to figure out why "Krylov" is in this Comparing the SCAR to the Krylov is like comparing apples to puppy dogs on which one makes a better engine degreaser. As was pointed out since you cannot equip both the SCAR and Krylov the comparison is SCAR, Voss, Baur, full stop.

Now if you want to include the Krylov on a comparative basis then why aren't we including the 2 SMGs, the 2 LMGs, the HMG, the Clark and the Lambert as well? Those are equally valid comparisons.

You should see some of the good Squads I been in on EU side.

When I´m playing with Reaper & CO and we whiped a PAC Squad, we always rush over the kits like marauders to find useable krylovs in them.

**Greyed** · 07-22-2009, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

When I´m playing with Reaper & CO and we whiped a PAC Squad, we always rush over the kits like marauders to find useable krylovs in them.

When PAC... pack a Krylov... and smoke... and the herzog... just so Lyra has to weep.

**LordKelvin** · 07-22-2009, 12:19 PM

I agree, every PAC soldier should carry a Krylov with radar nades and Herzog when Lyra is on the opposing team. To heck with it, I'll start doing this to see if I can still be effective. It'll be good practice.

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