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07-29-2009, 05:25 PM #1
Different fireteams
Ok, at the risk of being ridiculed, I want to ask why some SLs demand 5 medics all the time? This is by no means meant to insult anyone - SLs who are better than me use this all the time.
Yes, revives are important, but 4 medics get the job done just as well. It only takes 1 medic to revive a person, yet how often do you see 3 medics rushing to revive the same person? Compare this to how often you wished you knew what was behind you.. +their exact positions.
Really, if you need 5 medics in order to keep revives up, wouldn't the situation be too hot for revives anyways?
A situation that could have been prevented with the better intel/armordisabling that an extra support can provide?
In my opinion, a better layout will be
2 support, 4 medics.
or better yet, 2 support, 3 medics, 1 free.. but that's an argument for later
Especially on defense (1 support 5 medic acceptable on offense, as 1 IDS can reveal the entire flag and important spawns.. but when the flag is yours, you will usually need 2 ids for forward warning from multiple directions).
The only exception to this, I would say would be maps where armor tends to be aggressive.
The IDS is useful, but it only covers a small area. Sometimes larger areas are needed. With an extra support, visibility will be doubled. It might sound paranoid, but sometimes COs aren't great with spotting. If they are, sometimes they might miss the "Hey, there's a buggy going to junk. Junk better retreat from Barge" because of 30 sceond sattrack delay or attention division or wtv.
Minsk north:
IDS forward.
IDS a little more in the middle (or behind, or above).
Berlin north:
IDS on hill.
IDS behind building (people get past the IDS range, and chasing becomes a pain if APC is distracted/destroyed/wtv. Not uncommon). or IDS on flag.
Gibraltar harbor:
IDS west, IDS east (I find it odd how my squad is usually responsible for putting IDS on both sides).
Belgrade Playground:
IDS on either northern building if we control Monorail.
IDS on north and south if we don't.
How +1 support -1 medic helps (2 support 4 medic):
-Double the visibility means less blind spots. Less blind spots prevents flanking and recon bypass.
-1 EMPer sometimes isn't enough to kill a walker (time it takes to react).. 2 EMPers can keep a walker EMPed indefinitely.
How default layout helps (1 support 5 medic):
-Very slight revivability difference. As long as 1 medic is careful (doesn't approach RDX etc, even 2 can revive entire squad).
-Higher rocket density (5 medics fire at the same place, 3 of those medics won't be making a difference. It only takes 2 rockets to kill an infantryman. However, I have to admit it's beautiful to see 15 rockets arch like a rainbow of death)
-Slight healing advantage. (4 medics vs 5 doesn't change much)
So, now that I've made my argument.. however haphazardly and disorganized.. what do you guys think?
But first, my preferred fireteam:
Template: The minimum requirements for a standard squad in my opinion.
SL: support EMP IDS Shotty
1: support EMP IDS x
2: Medic defib rocket x.
2: Wild x x x
[
3 engi if vehicle heavy (take out 1 support)
2 engi if vehicle medium.
1 engi 1 medic if vehicle light assault (easy for infantry to overwhelm a careless vehicle):
1 engi 1 recon if vehicle light defense (take advantage of Otus, +RDX flag)
]
and now for something completely different
http://de.video.yahoo.com/watch/1234996Without teamwork, you'll never survive.
Without betrayal you'll never win.
Welcome to Cutthroat Caverns
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07-29-2009, 05:54 PM #2
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- 50ft above ground in an inverted gunship trying to solo someone
- Age
- 16
- Posts
- 519
Re: Different fireteams
I have the same opinion. I can see why 5 medics is useful, as it means that if someone is critically wounded then the chances are about 99% that someone WILL revive them, but I think it is better to take the risk of having less revive capabilities and more info on the area, hence less people dying in the first place. Info>overkill revives IMO.

Playing BF2142 as:
-{SXGr}- J0KerRr
-{SXGr}- x^DeTeR
I'm always open for tips, tutorials and training in the gunship while online, just ask :)
Currently taking a break from MW2, but when I play its as:
eXileD// DeTeR
Even if you don't consider that I only have 7 days played in the gunship I'm one of the best pilots in the game
I will always accept a 1v1, friendly or not
MW2 Objective Player + BF2142 Gunship Pro
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07-29-2009, 06:09 PM #3
Re: Different fireteams
I know Zohar loves to run 2x Support Squads on a regular basis. But sometimes I found myself with JUST those 2 Support kits in order to kitswitch around for the critical revive.
The "Perfect" Setup when I play in one of Reapers Squads is:
1x Support
4x Medic
1x Recon for Netbatting up the Otus.
But this Recon spot holds a very special responsibility of instantly and without a delay kitswitching to Medic kits on the ground when needed. Often I just spawn as Recon for the Helmet and then go marauding for a Medic Kit.
Revives ARE that important.
If it was your real life and every medic around you would lower the chance of a stroke by15% - would you rather have 4 or 5 around you? The 5th medic often prevents a worst case scenario.
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07-29-2009, 06:14 PM #4
Re: Different fireteams
The fact is, assault = medic. The assault kit is the most versitle in the game. In can engage effectively from both close and mid-long range. The medic can heal himself and heal others. This is what enables the medic to survive and be a ground force to be reckoned with.
As with most situations, it depends on who is in your squad. Can you trust your medic? Do they know when to revive and when to not? Will they communicate? Are the supports effective with the weapons that they have?
It is true that info is required to win and that you can't have enough IDS. I will run two supports, but it all depends on how much I trust my squad to make revives happen. If all else fails, two supports have double the chances to IDS freeze the server.
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07-29-2009, 07:32 PM #5
Re: Different fireteams
I'm one of those SL who will typically ask for 5 medics and one support if I'm not worried about armor. Having five definitely makes a difference.
Lyra is probably right in his post that that'd be my ideal, but unless I'm squadded only with people I trust, I usually say NO recon kits.
Anyway, squad kitouts need to be flexible and there's no "right" answer (though there are many wrong ones). Having two supports and four medics is certainly doable and even I will use this now and then.
The reason I don't do it more often is that the benefits of the additional support diminish rapidly whereas the benefits of the additional medic diminish slowly.
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07-29-2009, 07:54 PM #6
Re: Different fireteams
I get the impression that the support is around mostly for the IDS. The shotgun as a close range weapon can be replaced relatively well with an assault rifle, which functions decently at close range and much better at long range. Additionally, regular ammo in 2142 does not seem to be expended quickly enough to require frequent resupplies, with one exception being grenades. The last and rarest case is EMPing vehicles to either run away or attempt to rocket/ventshoot something to death.
Could we replace the support in the squad with an assault with a radar grenade? Both function similarly in enhancing situational awareness, but one can use the defibrillator and throw the radar farther. Maybe in vehicle maps the support would be more useful, but in my mind, as long as supply boxes can be looted or provided by the commander, the radar grenade would be an effective solution to the revive problem caused by the one support.He was told that he should not kill, and he did not kill, until he got into the Army. Then he was told to kill, and he killed.


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07-29-2009, 08:11 PM #7
Re: Different fireteams
If the radar grenade worked better it might be an option, but it's not all that helpful now. The ids is also passive which is a huge benefit.
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07-29-2009, 08:18 PM #8
Re: Different fireteams
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07-29-2009, 09:22 PM #9
Re: Different fireteams
In short, no.
1. Clark can outshoot an AR in CQ.
2. IDS is permanent: radar grenades live for 15 seconds.
3. Support gives ammo: decent Assaults burn through rockets very quickly. Not to mention grenades.
4. Armor is powerless against EMP grenades.
5. Support gives Otus diamonds.
I think it's a worthwhile investment to become proficient with a Clark. I think people feel ineffective with a Clark, and hence don't run Support. It's one of the reasons I am running the Clark Basic class in TGU just now.
It's ludicrous statements like the one above that really fuel me to run the class well and get more IDSs and EMP locks on TG.
---
Back to the OP: as Lyra said, I try to get 2xSupport+4xMedic as often as I can.Fight!
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07-29-2009, 09:51 PM #10
Re: Different fireteams
As long as Jazy gets to come in as support ALL the time he's a happy chappy!! (only joking, I love being medic from time to time too
)
I'm a fierce advocate of at least 1 support but don't mind 2 most of the time. EMP lovin' 'nade tossin' ammo givin' goodness. It's shocking how many people will run away or lose the engagement because of EMP vision, not to mention the amount of people that jump out of armor because I've EMP'd it for so long.
1 round of Gibby in particular saw an EU soldier bring the walker out of toll towards harbor flag. I proceeded to EMP him and he refused to get out. He spent the whole round give or take 2-3 mins under EMP LOCK. I got a gold star with only 3 kills. The rest of my points were from this silly stubborn guy!
Learn the support class, it will change how you view the battlefield.
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07-30-2009, 12:43 AM #11
Re: Different fireteams
Totally agree with the need for at least one support. Even if you can't use the Clark, the light machine gun is a very good weapon at short to mid range. It's pretty easy to be Rambo with that thing. Also the number of times I've run out of rockets to spam or see 3 medics all going for one guy are too many to count. And of course the invaluable IDS. This thing is a life saver who's importance seems to be dismissed or forgotten about by a lot of squad leaders. It's range sucks but it's enough to clear out the immediate flag area and cover important choke points. Put your minimap to the smallest range and it is really hard to go wrong. It is especially important when no one feels like going commander which seems to happen very often. The EMP grenade is all right I guess but no one ever seems to be around to take advantage of my EMPing. That is to say, blowing the crap out of the walker/tank/apc. I guess it's mostly an area denial type thing. If you need another kit on the ground, just pick up some dead dude's kit for a revive or a heal or whatever.
The real strength of this setup is of course on defense when everyone stays in the same area thus making IDS a permanently useful source of intel. Sure it could work on offense but the support guy spends more time with his ammo hub out refilling IDS while probably getting shot at.
Speaking of medics, it's usually useful to have one guy hang back and do nothing but revive. It seems like a lot of people can't focus on both shooting and reviving, leaving comrades to die while they could have been revived easily or you get four people pulling out defibs at the same time creating a break in downrange fire and also bunching up the squad for a lucky grenade or rocket volley.
If you really need to be convinced about the IDS just join a pubbie server and defend a silo or flag by yourself =)
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07-30-2009, 02:31 AM #12
Re: Different fireteams
"Put your minimap on smallest range"
You'll be missing out on valuable intel from the local area.
SLs shouldn't because they need to be aware of enemy forces and how it can affect squad... and how the SL can affect enemy squads.
SMs shouldn't for the same reason: tunnel vision limits your knowledge of incoming enemies. This means it limits your knowledge where enemy grenades can come from, whether it's safe to move to destination, etc.
The EMP grenade is actually very cool. The best way to put it, EMP is the flashbang of the future.
Always EMP if you can imagine a special forces detachment using a flashbang in your situation.
The obvious effect: it's disorienting - it is harder to track an individual's strafing movements.
Also, the reticule becomes invisible. No reticule and difficulty tracking effectively increases your evasion - full clips will fly by.
This effect lasts for more than 2 AR clips - which is plenty of time to storm a garage.Without teamwork, you'll never survive.
Without betrayal you'll never win.
Welcome to Cutthroat Caverns
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07-30-2009, 06:22 AM #13
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07-30-2009, 07:14 AM #14
Re: Different fireteams
I know I generally want 6 medics when on an assault map as an attacker; until we get control of a flag, generally you die so quickly and often it makes any need for ammo mute and the need for revives is higher. After the flag is taken its nice to have a support in the mix; though only if they are good with using the IDS and Emps.
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07-30-2009, 09:04 AM #15
Re: Different fireteams
So Specterr... you'd rather assault a flag without intel? 0.o Unless you pack an otus, I'd call that borderline suicide...
Personally, information= survival= more kills
I don't squad lead very much, but I prefer the 2x support with IDS when I'm SMing. It helps with my telepathic abilities to sense people coming around corners.


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