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07-31-2009, 05:26 PM #1
Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
Ok...I'm going to be perfectly honest here....as a commander, sometimes I think I can do more for a team if I'm able to take out my weapon and take out a person or a vehicle if I have direct access to them and my team is on the far side of the map or just 50m away and is unable to mount an effective response.....
In certain situations, I would like to ask the rest of the community: Are there ever situations where a commander can actually "fight"?
For this kind of a question to be answered you have to be in the right situation at the right time...1 man can make a difference... The "butterfly effect" is very relevant in a chaotic game such as ours...
Furthermore,
I, like everyone else hate commanders that fight and blatantly get into vehicles not staring at their command screen for minutes at a time....but I also hate the fact that some of our SOP rules do not offer a wider latitude towards players that are competent and can handle multiple tasks at once...if your team is losing...you need to focus on commanding...but if your team is winning by huge margins and you look at that command screen 95% of the time...I don't see why you can optimize the 5% of time and setup a mine trap or an rdx trap on a flag or even take out people with your gun...I know we stringently enforce these rules to make sure EVERYbody takes commanding seriously and does their very best job....But on the flip-side.....I just feel that it can also stifle some of the commander's abilities....the commander can be in a position where he can radically alter the outcome of a buggy rush or a flag from falling...This is obviously a case by case scenario...
The reason I bring this up is because I understand and accept being kicked for "ignoring CO duties" However, it must also be noted that I helped our team win after losing harbor immediately on Camp G. We recaptured it and was able to instill a very long bleed...if you ask any of my team members...there was consistent spotting throughout the game even after I had lost all my assets near the end of the game....I feel a kick is only necessary when the commander is completely useless and does not use any of the assets in a timely fashion...

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07-31-2009, 05:42 PM #2
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
The commander IS allowed to fight.....in certain situations. To protect himself, his assets and to set traps being some of those situations. If you lose EU base on Gibby you may fight your way to a safe location to resume commanding...
there's even a vid out there somewhere of a certain commander/admin being T-bagged and then jumping up and killing the T-bagger who had forgotten to bring RDX on an assets run and had just T-bagged said commander so the trip wasn't a total waste!
For further clarification I'd suggest contacting an admin!
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07-31-2009, 05:49 PM #3
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
It's an interesting question. The problem from an admin's point of view is then drawing the line. When does it go from being smart as a CO to fighting...
That said, I regularly do more than just use my co screen. The secret is to do things that are ordinarily passive. Motion mines and rdx on a flag are two examples that I encourage every CO to do when it makes sense (ie doesn't cause you to have to run for 30 seconds making your team go without spots.)
When you start to actively fight, though, you're usually on the wrong side of the line. however, there are times where not only can you fight but you should. For example, if you're EU CO on camp g and you need to stall an incoming squad so your reinfs can come, you'd better fight.
But these are pretty context sensitive. Also, 10 seconds is a long time not to be COing (that's probably 20 or so spots you're missing).
I view the numbers of times COs should do more than lay mines/rdx/apms as severely limited. If you think you're in a gray zone, you probably shouldn't be doing it. That said, there's nothing that says you need to stay in the ucb.
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07-31-2009, 06:16 PM #4
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
Hmmm, I like the idea, war is hell after all and sometimes we must adapt and all that jazz, but as Zoraster said, it would be a nightmare for admins to properly police that, we already have so many rules and limitations, further complicating that for a few occasional cases doesn't seem sensible.
Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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07-31-2009, 06:18 PM #5
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
Oh, I'd also mention that if you do think you're going to have to leave your CO screen for long, put down a uav if you can. It'll make up for the loss of spotting.
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08-01-2009, 02:42 AM #6
- Join Date
- May 2009
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- 50ft above ground in an inverted gunship trying to solo someone
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- 16
- Posts
- 519
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
That's generally what I do. I'll Sat-Track, place a UAV in the area with the most red (or an area where they are about to go to be in) and then spot the rest manually.
I think the CO should be allowed to engage targets that he can SEE and/or in the uncap without discretion. The assets are his toys, he doesn't want people messing with them, so he should be there protecting and commanding. He has enough soldiers doing the killing already. The CO shouldn't leave the uncap though.
Playing BF2142 as:
-{SXGr}- J0KerRr
-{SXGr}- x^DeTeR
I'm always open for tips, tutorials and training in the gunship while online, just ask :)
Currently taking a break from MW2, but when I play its as:
eXileD// DeTeR
Even if you don't consider that I only have 7 days played in the gunship I'm one of the best pilots in the game
I will always accept a 1v1, friendly or not
MW2 Objective Player + BF2142 Gunship Pro
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08-01-2009, 03:52 AM #7
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
You've got to ask yourself a couple of questions:
1. Is this truly the best way I know how to contribute to the team during this time?
2. Does performing this task gain more benefit to the team than any other possible CO function?
If you sincerely and truly feel like this is the best way you can help your team during that amount of time -- better than organizing the team, spotting enemies, using the assets -- then definitely go for it.
The important thing to remember is that none of the rules are in place to restrict or limit your efforts to help the team in a mature and tactical manner. The "No Fighting COs" rule was changed to its current version just for that reason.
That said, the role you play during the game is your choice, and you are expected to contribute to the best way possible by the tasks unique to that role.
I don't mind a CO who is doing things other than using the CO interface.
I do, however, thoroughly dislike a CO who does not spot. I would much rather find a medic kit without a defib than have a CO who doesn't spot.Fight!
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08-01-2009, 09:44 AM #8
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
Sattrack takes 30 seconds to recharge.. therefore when a good commander is in charge (enemy or friendly), consider the 30 second intervals as you would the 15 seconds it takes for an evil defender to respawn.
What outstanding combat can a commander achieve in 30 seconds (including starting an approach on undefended Harbor)? Contrast this to what a buggy/recon/ enemy team push / friendly overcompensation / friendly squad to a death trap can achieve. Contrast this to whether or not Sattrack/random spotting could prevent that.
If there is no relevant intel that could be transmitted in the full minute of marching, geeze, that must be a boring game. Noone respawning, no squads moving, no friendly squads advancing.
If you can take Harbor all by your lonesome from the uncap, can't anyone who's actually interested in attacking from behind do it anyways? You might've saved a squad 30 seconds going from Uncap to Harbor. You might've wasted a minute going to harbor by dying to an infantry spawning to kill the commander-spotted blip at H. I might be over/underexaggerating. I might even be a kitty.
if Harbor can be taken by the commander, and he does take it, I'm not seeing how it will be useful. If we had a squad interesting in approaching from north, they would spawn north themselves and take harbor themselves.
Commander could place RDX, given that nothing's happening. But since when was there a slow Camp Gibraltar when PAC controlled the back? A squad might react to take harbor back.. one heck of a long walk. But then why not force that same squad to walk all the way back to central instead of giving the opportunity to respawn right into combat in defense of Central?
However, as long as I can tell the difference between them and lonewolves without tking them and listening to their "Man down! Man down!", I'm fine.
[er.. I meant, looking at the minimap]
Priorities for commanders:
Utilizing commander assets [orbitals, spotting, etc]
Utilizing commander assets well [do not orbital friendly Fruvous, spotting blips near Fruvous, etc]
Making sure squads have some fun [Dunes Fruvous can't have fun if 3 squads spawn Dunes. If this happens move the squads]
Sending supply drops full of banana creme pie to Fruvous
Protecting assets
Q: "Can there be exceptions for certain situations?"
A: No, absolutely under no circumstance can there be any exceptions!
JK. TBH, I don't know of any exceptions so critical for a commander to deviate from the priorities I listed..
He has unique tools, why not use it? If there's something 1 infantry can achieve, why not a squad?Without teamwork, you'll never survive.
Without betrayal you'll never win.
Welcome to Cutthroat Caverns
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08-01-2009, 04:54 PM #9
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
I remember being told that if you are stuck at a flag or are in a position to capture a near by flag, that if absolutely needed then it is fine to engage the enemy and take the flag. It is discouraged because you are normally by yourself and usually out in the open.



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08-01-2009, 06:33 PM #10
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
I think we should have the following message at map load along with all the others we already have up...
Yay for practicality.- NO Fighting Commanders...BUT...
You've got to ask yourself a couple of questions:
1. Is this truly the best way I know how to contribute to the team during this time?
2. Does performing this task gain more benefit to the team than any other possible CO function?
If you sincerely and truly feel like this is the best way you can help your team during that amount of time -- better than organizing the team, spotting enemies, using the assets -- then definitely go for it.
The important thing to remember is that none of the rules are in place to restrict or limit your efforts to help the team in a mature and tactical manner. The "No Fighting COs" rule was changed to its current version just for that reason.
That said, the role you play during the game is your choice, and you are expected to contribute to the best way possible by the tasks unique to that role.
Unless you want admins to freeze the game and judge everything case-by-case, we need simple rules that all can follow, and not make exceptions and sub-clauses, etc, to these.Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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08-02-2009, 12:01 AM #11
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
If I'm the only dude at my conquerable main base or whatever and the rest of the team is like two flags away and someone is trying to cap my flag, then I will make an effort to defend it since my duties and team survival depend on the assets staying intact. In my opinion this is one of two reasons a commander needs to fight. The other being a help hold the last flag on the map before capout situation.
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08-02-2009, 12:25 PM #12
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
Read the last paragraph:
1) Teamwork is required at all times
To help facilitate teamwork, all players MUST join a squad. (This rule exists to allow better teamwork on the server - it is strongly advised that players do not attempt to side-step this rule by creating one-man locked squads.)
Being part of a squad means working together towards a common goal - what that goal is, and the method by which a squad attempts to achieve it are decisions reserved for the squad-leader. Squad members are REQUIRED to follow the SL's orders, including deploying with specific kits/roles if requested. Related to this, squad leaders must give orders. Whether it's using VOIP, commo-rose commands, or a combination of both - they must lead the squad.
The commander’s job is a vital one. As such, commanders should focus their attention not on fighting, but on commanding and supporting their team. Commanders should not engage in combat unless absolutely necessary.
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08-04-2009, 04:53 PM #13
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
I guess on pubbie servers there really isn't much of a rule for fighting commanders, but sometimes it is quite fun to (lets say on Celebre Landing) I become commander, lay down APM's, and I make sure I throw all RDX on a very well-seen location. Then when they come to the back flag, they (more than likely only one guy) will be quite apprehensive, and caught off guard if I am still there.
Quite fun, since most pubbie commanders are always fighting, nobody will no you are stalking command all day.


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08-04-2009, 06:07 PM #14
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
Sometimes I think of the CO as the kicker on an american football kickoff: they're there in the back to try and slow down someone just long enough that the rest of the team catches up. It's rare that the 150 pound kicker is going to actually take down the 225 ball carrier, but that's not really the point.
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08-04-2009, 11:06 PM #15
Re: Can there be exceptions for certain situations?
My post wasn't mean to address pubbies, admins, or the logistical implementation of the friction that arises there.
My post was meant to address intelligent and free-thinking TGers and to urge them to take COing to the next level. Small minds need rules and restrictions in order to function -- like children, they constantly need to be told what not to do.
In stark contrast, intelligent and questioning TGers need a higher standard, and I think I've provided that. A goal to strive for, something to do instead of restrictions.
This is the ultimate aim of any law: to shape a society, and not to simply deny people this, that, and the other thing. Simply put, if you want to consider what we are as a community in terms of what we can't do, then ...Fight!
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