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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - Tactics and Missions Discussion - 12man games - 12v12 3 4man squads (team1) vs 2 12man squads (team2) Gist? 3 4man squads >
  1. #1

    Fruvous's Avatar

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    12man games

    12v12
    3 4man squads (team1) vs 2 12man squads (team2)

    Gist?
    3 4man squads > 2 12man squads.
    The strength is in how they use the extra squad. If they use the extra squad well, the strength outweighs the weakness. It should be easy to use that extra squad well, because Team2 is predictable.. and Team2 can't be in three places.

    3 4man teams have more options, therefore more flexibility. At the same time, there are more 'wrong' options. Many of these wrong options are small because we have experienced and organized SLs.. but they will probably still happen. There may be a little more thinking involved, but organization and preparation reduces most of the energy involved with it. Also.. more thinking equals more TG =)
    2x6man teams have less options, and therefore is predictable. At the same time, it's much easier to choose the 'best' option (though the 3x4 team will have better 'best' options).
    Depending on the performance of the 3x4 team, one team or the other is going to be overpowered/suffocated due to lack of firepower (3x4) or lack of flanking (2x6) or lack of available flags (2x6) or lack of choice (2x6. On Tunis, if you have a squad on Power, it's pretty imperitive to defend Junk).


    The weakness of 3x4 is obviously is in a 6v4, the 6 will win.. especially if the 6 has surprise, flanking, etc. The 4 will be on even (or greater) grounds if they mount a decent defense (Docks vs Junk, per ie), or get a few surprise grenades in. The 4 will have an additional advantage if they keep the 6man in position, because that means elsewhere on the same team, 8men are attacking 6, whilst employing flanking (there is a second squad).
    Luckily, the tactical disadvantages of 4v6 is something that can be diminished/avoided by the 4.


    Advantages in early game:
    Case example: Tunis 48p. Team1=PAC. Team2=EU

    In order to use the third squad effectively, it is important for Team 1 to stay active.. and constantly choose battles they can win. It should be easy - if A2 B2 are on the same flag, there's an undefended flag. If they're on different flags, A1 B1 have number advantage and can get into flanking position.


    Team1 has 3 squads, named A1 B1 C1. Team 2 has 2 squads, named A2 B2.
    Keep in mind, defense has a force multiplier because they can choose cover from a direction.

    Team2 has three likely* choices in the early game:
    1) 1 squad to Junk, 1 squad to Power
    2) 2 squads to Junkyard
    3) 2 squads to Power
    *Dock is not considered, as Dock rushes don't see the light of day very much (I hope this doesn't give anyone ideas.. it usually fails).
    It's pretty predictable to see where they will go.. and it's also very easy to verify. Just count the buggies that disappear from uncap, and count the buggies that reappear at Junkyard.
    If two buggies disappear, and 1 appears at Junk, there's one going Power.
    If one buggie disappears, one buggie reappears at Power, it's likely there's only one squad Power (you can also check Junkyard status).
    etc

    I think it isn't unreasonable for a TGer to know who's SLing for the other team, especially based on previous rounds' top squads (or simply the roster).. as well as that SLers beginning moves. Knowing this, it should be easy to know what Team2 will do at the very beginning.
    (ie. if I see certain SLs in Shingle, I know I should be afraid for Command Center in the beginning).
    1) is the most common case. Default to this assumption.
    2) If both squads are either pubbie, or protective, 2 is most likely to occur
    3) If both squads are aggressive rushers, 3 is most likely.


    Since we have an educated guess on what they're going to do, we know where their forces are
    .. and therefore know how to divide the forces to gain 2 out of 3 flags.
    1) A1 to Dock. B1 C1 to Power.
    2) A1 to Dock. C1 to Power. B1 in between to easily react to offense.
    3) A1 to Dock. B1 C1 to Junkyard (from the barges).

    Thus, the middle game commences [which is covered in the beginning of the post]



    I think it also gets easier to do a capout on Cerbere (PAC).. as long as Command Center (capping every back flag is actually a disadvantage if Command Center doesn't belong to PAC.. this is true in all games in my opinion).
    The only flag that needs to be truly defended is Roadblock. It also defends CC, which is the hardest flag to take, and the furthest away from the uncap.
    From there, there could be a few ways for three squads to keep 2 squads panicked for flags. One way might be having squads rotate in a counter-clockwise direction capping flags (with a beacon atop the CC).

    Gibraltar assault I think would work very successfully. Toll (PAC) vs Central (EU).
    A1 B1 attacks central, C1 attacks ruins.
    Case 1, A2 moves to defend ruins (this assumes that they have knowledge of C1's assault). C1 (4 people) is distracting A2 (6 people). Team1 has number advantage at Central.
    Case 2, A2 stays. Ruins is down for sure.
    There are other subtle things that Team1 could do, which would produce different results.




    What disadvantages does two squads offer? What advantages do three squads offer?
    -Team2 has less squads to work with. Team1 can have Team2 struggling for air early on, and later on. In a game of whackamole, I think a little less fire power is sacrificable to extra capping ability. Team1 might lose a few extra engagements (4 instead of 6 tickets) if they aren't careful, but Team2 will probably have vulnerable flags.. and if not, vulnerable flanks.
    -Team2 is predictable. Almost surely, they will choose 1 squad per flag, except when two uncompromising SLs are active. So, either Team1 gets 3 flags and Team2 gets 2 flags, or Team1 and Team2 get a flag and compete for the same flag (2 man advantage to team1).
    The three-squad team will have a 2 man advantage over Power (can be very significant). If Team2 doesn't want an early game confrontration (A2 B2 same flag), then Team1 gets two free flags.




    One thing I will not deny:
    I absolutely love 6man squads. It gives a lot more flexiblity for kits within the squad. This is important when you're facing against a team with armor. However, 1 support, 2medics and an engi sounds like a decent choice - especially considering medics can mount rorsch (giggidy).. or a support, a medic, 2 engi.. 2 engi can pick up ground kits after dispatch.

    I love a good squad on squad duel. I get so excited that I might get carried away.
    So, if I'm facing a squad with 6 people in it, I think I would want my squad to have 6 on it.
    However, I would think that a 4v4 squad duel would be funner.



    Long post ftw. A lot of it (ie. the Tunis early-game prediction game) was example..
    Without teamwork, you'll never survive.
    Without betrayal you'll never win.
    Welcome to Cutthroat Caverns

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  3. #2

    Reaperassault's Avatar

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    Re: 12man games

    I'm sorry but I fail to see the point of this post. I doesn't seem like there is much of a discussion here because a lot of your micro engagements are based on some very big assumptions. I think to put everything simply, 4 man squads allow for a larger number of squads and therefore more flexibility in movement and tactics while 6 man squads are larger and carry more fire power but use more of your teams resources. It really comes down to making sure that you use your people efferently.
    Reapator, overlord of ponies


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