1 week of Minsk - The Aftermath

**Lyramion** · 08-09-2009 10:55 AM

I think that is the longest time we ever had Minsk in the rotation in one piece. It is no doubt a brutal map. Similar to Berlin, yet we learned special ways to make Berlin playable. I like Berlin and I like Minsk, too.

But I think there still could be even better ways to coordinate a rush.

Minsk disadvantages for attackers:

- APC and Walker avaiable to defenders right off the bat
- if initial rush fails defenders get to move even more armor up

Minsk advantages for attackers:

- If you take away their backflag they will have no airpower left. A good PAC gunship can then take out the EU armor one by one.
- If you manage to take around 2 flags you can have more armor than EU

I came up with a simple strat for PAC to have an edge on the first rush. But it takes people that know what they are doing in the right positions.

A) PAC Commander EMP/Orbitals the Frontline APC right at the start. This will make it tons easier for PAC

B) PAC Gunship bombs the Frontline Walker with TVs. You have to do this as fast as possible before the EU gunships sees what you are trying to do. 1 TV hit will trip the walker

C) 1-2 PAC Squadleaders pod bomb Frontline tower with the APC pods. If you are lucky you are able to land on the tower. Often you will run into EMP mines and pod just a bit short. With the lack of an EU APC you can still make it inside the tower.

If you are able to take frontlines the APC and Walker there will spawn for your side. The chokepoint is now broken and your buggies have a chance to rush where they want.

**LogicalHarm** · 08-09-2009 12:15 PM

This was an ideal situation for PAC here. Boring, but an excellent line with the two APC's to the south covering the open ground and able to shell the trenches at South Outpost. Meanwhile the majority of the team on hill had higher ground and were able to keep the enemy armor at bay behind the high rise buildings.

Although there were a few attempts to take frontlines, the line held, leaving the PAC gunship to pick targets off as it pleased.

It's worth noting that although many hold this map in contempt, over the past week I haven't seen a match on this that has turned into the grind at frontline.

[media]http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/851/picture11b.png[/media]

**DocGuo** · 08-09-2009 05:22 PM

fortunately or unfortunately, this map is THE defining map in which a team can decide a match within 1 minute of the game....I have only seen one successful EU defense after the PAC has broken through front lines....

taking over frontlines is great for PAC...they have a measured increase in the probability of winning...but...if they are able to break through and capture a flag in the back....their chances start skyrocketing....

This map has changed into a different type of frustration....it's no longer the problem of the EU team having such an advantage when starting out...it's more of why people don't understand the critical strategies that are involved in late game when the PAC has broken through....people should expect successful breakthroughs all the time now....it's time to focus on late game tactics and strategies...the PAC already has the objective of pushing forward...the EU team seems to have problems understanding the concept of pushing back and holding on to critical pieces of armor....in a game such as this one....the only real advantage is the mere fact that the EU team has so much &%$*@# armor to start with!!! USE IT EVERYBODY!! don't just leave it behind for the PAC side to casually steal...

**Zhohar** · 08-10-2009 02:34 AM

So, what you're saying is:
PAC has to be really good, and EU has to be real awful, just to take bleed off, and then proceed to have an average armor round?

No thanks.

**DocGuo** · 08-10-2009 03:14 AM

zhohar, who are you referring to?

**Fruvous** · 08-10-2009 04:32 AM

Lyra brings up a few good points, Zho. EU doesn't have to be miserable. PAC doesn't have to be made of 30 Fruvous. EU is very disorganized in the beginning, PAC isn't. While TG is getting better at taking advantage of it, we could exploit it even more.

I agree that I would like to see more TrojanHorse APC from the getgo.. buggies destroy some MMs to allow the APC to make its move.

One point I would like to make with recons going extreme north or extreme south - it doesn't work very well. It's precisely what every squad is looking for (unless if there's no dedicated north or south squad.. or no dedicated armor).
I've had much more success going north, then entering vertical trench leading to the horizontal one, spawn and run in to flag by jumping over horizontal trench.

On a side note, I wonder why that level designer hates PAC so much.

**Lyramion** · 08-10-2009 08:05 AM

Does PAC have to be good? Yes - does EU have to be miserable? No. Mr NEgative!

PAC just has to play their cards right to weaken EU on Frontlines with the "overpowered" things they have avaiable. Namely EMP/Orbital and the TV missile.

**ninkybob** · 08-11-2009 10:57 AM

EU Gets more control points, PAC gets better guns. I don't see the problem.

Like Lyra said, the PAC Commander just has to think craftily and use tactics to his advantage.

**SIDIOUS** · 08-11-2009 12:43 PM

that plan of bombing from the apc and the gunship taking out the walker sounds good but it depends on a lot of luck really if you get an apc close enough to the frontline to pod bomb there is the rorche to deal with plus 10 engineers usually in a full server and the gunship has to take out the walker and not get shot by the aa on the building or the walker itself before the eu gunship gets to the frontline

**LogicalHarm** · 08-11-2009 01:41 PM

The gunship does have to be used correctly with a gunner who is not going to miss the TV shots. The gunship can be very effective if it stays behind the peak directly south of the PAC ucb. From there you can hit the AA on frontlines first of all, proceed to trip the walker and then work on the APCs. Alternatively, once the AA is down, the pilot can take the gunship to the ditch/canyon on the South side of the map, hold just south of frontlines behind the ridge, and pop up with a great view of all armor/infantry.

**jazy2** · 08-11-2009 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by LogicalHarm

The gunship does have to be used correctly with a gunner who is not going to miss the TV shots. The gunship can be very effective if it stays behind the peak directly south of the PAC ucb. From there you can hit the AA on frontlines first of all, proceed to trip the walker and then work on the APCs. Alternatively, once the AA is down, the pilot can take the gunship to the ditch/canyon on the South side of the map, hold just south of frontlines behind the ridge, and pop up with a great view of all armor/infantry.

Would this be an occasion for more than 2 people in the gunship squad?

Spotters for enemy armor and EMPers? Verbal confirmation of shields used up on the APC then gunship pops up and TV's it?

**DocGuo** · 08-21-2009 06:59 PM

I'm going to declare it:IT'S OVER....the superior tactics on this map have finally sunken in and turned this map into a living hell!!!

shhhhhhhhhhh....here's the secret......hey EU...don't let the PAC know this but all you have to do is absorb the armor in you back flags and bring them to the front lines.....
Now now...please don't bash...this is done in a very sarcastic manner....

....the game will be heavily in you favor....you know why???? (i'm talking to the EU)

well first....the PAC can arrive at the beginning with what? the measly car(s) filled with 6 people at most? Oh wow.....

This can be used for great effect especially in 64-player conquest...OMG it's a nightmare!!!!!
So what if they take front lines...you have a line of armor just waiting to see them move forward.....and since you have all the armor...
what would they attack? you (armor) or the flag? Either is a nasty proposition.....

And..if you were to be so bold as to proclaim yourself of having superior gunship skills...I'd like to see anyone take out all that armor....and let's be honest....during the early hours of the day before the heavy dinner fight fest...do you really expect there to be good PAC gunship pilots who know what their doing let alone a good commander who helps spot out things....

MINSK is overrated...let's move on....I call for NO MINSK FOR 64 player maps!!!!! (this can work for 48 person Minsk...but it's much more balanced in a sense....) IT NEEDS TO BE PUT DOWN and thrown out of the rotation.............
The overwhelming amount of armor that the EU has is really a sight to behold.....

oh side rant...
Let's all look at the teams at the beginning of the round and ask ourselves...do I really want to join the winning team and screw over the weaker team??

I played on a map today where jenko, I and another TG player were the only people on the PAC side attacking the EU.....on 64 player Minsk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....every other person was "pubbie"....I use that term with the utmost respect..... sigh.....

and that's why i'm writing this post...

**Sluggo78** · 08-28-2009 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by SIDIOUS

that plan of bombing from the apc and the gunship taking out the walker sounds good but it depends on a lot of luck really if you get an apc close enough to the frontline to pod bomb there is the rorche to deal with plus 10 engineers usually in a full server and the gunship has to take out the walker and not get shot by the aa on the building or the walker itself before the eu gunship gets to the frontline

That's why he said " you have to do it fast though"

**Lyramion** · 08-29-2009 04:02 AM

the gunship has to take out the walker and not get shot by the aa on the building or the walker itself before the eu gunship gets to the frontline

They thing is a TV missile has a range of around 400 meters. You can do it out of view range and bobm them with TVs

**CableGuy10** · 08-31-2009 01:24 AM

While I haven't had an opportunity to test this out, methinks the PAC have another critical advantage; they have an UCB. Because of this they can operate a little more cavalierly than the EU. Specifically, a variation of the squadbomb involving a SL loading up in the gunner seat of the gunship and then getting dropped off at one of the backflags. Squad spawns in, quickcap, and the EU's carefully constructed chokepoint is rendered moot. The real rub with this possible strategy, is the amount of intersquad coordination, and timing (since the armor is traveling up to frontline; too early and the squad bomb will find itself between a rock and a wall of rolling iron).

Just an idea, I imagine someone's tried it before...

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