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Discussion: Battlefield 2142 / Battlefield 2142 - Tactics and Missions Discussion - Defense - Last night on Tunis I saw a lot of people getting themselves into trouble because
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09-10-2009, 10:58 AM #1
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Defense
Last night on Tunis I saw a lot of people getting themselves into trouble because them or their squad were not in proper defensive positions and thusly flags were swapped like mad.
Minsk, front line, is a very effective defense area because it offers 3 defensive positions: trenches, bunker, and final stand. final stand defense is always the battle when the defense has been compromised, it is when the enemy has entered the protected zone and are bringing the fight to YOU! Trenches and bunker are seperate because if trenches is taken then you can fall back to the bunker. So a defensive analysis goes as such: forward most defensible position, another defensible position that you can fall back to, ... , and final stand should all defenses be over run.
Berlin assaults are the same way because of all that cover on the main road that people can shoot behind cover from. The fall back position is the building overlooking the flag and then you have the final stand.
Taking these two examples let's ask why are they so effective? One is because most flag have only 2 defense positions, a forward defense and the final stand. These flags have 3. The other is that the defending team is always facing in one direction.
When setting up defense ask yourself
1-where should the forward defense position be
2-does a position cover any valuable choke points (if it only covers open or scattered infantry it may not be that defensible)
3-can we utilize cover within the flag should we get over run and need to make our final stand
4-where can these positions be compromised (a compromise is when you begin to lose your advantage, not just when enemy troops have entered your position)
These are the basics. Obviously a good defense also relies on the geometry and distance between the different defensible lines/areas as this effects the defending players' ability to regroup when falling back.
What happened at Tunis junkyard was too many people were using taking final stand positions within the flag radius even before enemies came within range and as such the forward defense line went completely unused. That's what made me write this post. When my squad took the flag and used the positions it was never taken again when under our control.
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09-10-2009, 12:47 PM #2
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Re: Defense
Well, normally speaking, defense of junkyard requires interior lines. In a normal junkyard defense situation, the enemy holds eastern. Thus one angle of attack is across the boat. So if you were simply using your theory, you'd position yourself to cover the boat.
But the enemy can quickly insert itself just outside the flag via buggy to the west of the flag. If you have a squad covering the boat to its maximum location for front lines, it's likely that the flag can get stolen from underneath you.
If the enemy holds power station, furthermore, there's a third angle of attack that you can't fulfill by holding the boat, although it's usually a slower attack, so may have time to get back.
In order to put a "front lines" defense on all of these, you'd need to spend 2 or 3 squads which may not be practical.
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Of course, if you're talking about infantry only, level 2 unlock night then things do change.
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09-10-2009, 04:31 PM #3
Re: Defense
There are several easy ways to counter that, leaving only one squad to defend.
Originally Posted by Zoraster
Most obvious is to get mines or a PDS southwest of Junkyard. This can be done by anyone not involved in the fight ... Walker squad's gunner, or the CO himself.
A bit less reliably would be to have a decent CO who pays attention to buggy spots, empty buggies, and generally relays intel quickly.
A bit better is to have the SL use APMs in the bushes west of flag on Junkyard, and RDX. They are relatively hard to spot (when hidden in the bushes), effective, and can kill the majority of a squad if combined with carefully-placed RDX.Fight!
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09-10-2009, 04:48 PM #4
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Re: Defense
regardless of what method you use to defeat it, it makes it so that the squad will often be running back and forth, which can prevent a permanent "front lines" defense model.
(I've only rarely seen APMs wipe a full squad. they're certainly helpful and can slow a squad down, but they're usually not 100% effective on their own)
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09-10-2009, 10:33 PM #5
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Re: Defense
You forget that if the enemy has eastern and power than there will be more than one squad spawning at junkyard. Likewise if power is taken and you control eastern that still leaves the enemy with only one avenue of attack with one squad being able to defend.
Also, while the building overlooking the boat, stationing on the building is not the greatest defense. Enemy infantry can all too easily get up to similar elevations and open fire. The worst part about that building is there is no flanking cover. By this I mean once you pop your head up sure your body is covered but your head can still be shot at from all 360 degrees.
The building is more or less a staging area for an offense because it is more difficult for defenders at junkyard to climb to the catwalks and effectively engage. Of course rocket and grenades can be used when at lower heights but direct fire weapons like assault rifles and machine guns are useless. As such even though fire can be returned, it simply cannot be returned to the degree at which they are firing on you. IE attackers on top of the building can throw everything they've got at you most of the time even when you're trying to take cover just because of the height advantage they have, while defenders can only return fire with rockets or nades and only direct fire when attackers expose themselves. While rockets and nades are powerful, the attackers have them too and can also utilize direct fire techniques as well which the defenders just don't have the luxury of. All in all the attackers, when situated on top of the building, have greater firepower capabilities than the defenders.
Then there's the threat of the back door at junkyard. While this is formidable it is easily countered by well placed IDS as a "track trap" and APM (if available to slow them down) when in a frontline defending formation it is always a good idea to position one self where you can directly overlook one possible avenue of attack and, if need be, be able to quickly relocate to over look another avenue of attack. Ideally when switching the player is not exposed at all to attackers coming from where the player is not looking and minimally exposed to attackers from where s/he is looking.
Junkyard is actually quite defensible, it just looks sloppy.
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10-12-2009, 04:30 PM #6
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Re: Defense
I've never really posted any strategic things before... But at Junkyard is it always necessary to move to the building by the boat to stage a defense? More of than not the squad on the other side can manage to set up a good line of their own behind the tower and the building. Preferably why not make the defense lines north and south instead? I prefer having 2 reliable assaults further down a little past the rorch where you can see both across the boat and the flag at power. While the rest of the squad are just along the rain cars and maybe 1 lone assault near the crates on the west of junk where you can get a view of the catwalks and the backside.
This way the attacking squad from eastern will cross and generally go around the north corner of the building. As they come around they are easy pickings for 3 guys gunning down one and suppressing his body. On the south side of the building your 2 assaults have eyes. And while the building is more trouble some for the defenders your back assault with his rockets can put pressure on them and as for the MG... You DON'T have to hit anything. The ganz packs 120 per clip and the overheat time of about 1.5 seconds. Fire in bursts near the edge of the roof of that building usually people will not stick their heads out and if they do... put 3 rounds at their head and they will drop that leaves the guys on the roof with the option of nades which without first hand visual abilities make it pretty inaccurate and between bursts the MG and move along the train car still putting fire while your assault holds them behind the building.
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10-13-2009, 06:57 PM #7
Re: Defense
I usually volunteer engy in a junk defense squad, and I'm happy to do it. Most rounds start off with west of junk being mined but the key is keeping it mined throughout the entire round, which is rarely done. It's a good feeling stopping two, three, sometimes even four or more buggy rushes in a round, right up until the last ditch effort to grab the flag near the end.
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10-13-2009, 08:54 PM #8
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Re: Defense
With mines the thing is to place 'em quickly anywhere, just get 'em down. Resupply then go back and fine tune the placements. If you get some kills go back and replace 'em all.
PDS is over-rated a lot of the time. If you have more than 1 engy fine, one engy brings PDS. EMP mines with motion mines is much more useful in most cases I find as you can negate the shields on any vehicle and score big hits on a stationary target.
Another thing I would like to point out is the reliance on Pilum.....I have made seasoned armour veterans pop their shields just because I kept a lock with the default engy rockets without firing. That alarm is intimidating, I don't bother shooting from long ranges sometimes until I have fooled the driver into using his shields in anticipation of the hit which never came until after he/she blew their shields. Other times I fire without even seeing the armour and then step out and guide the rockets in to the target at the last second. It's all situational and you gotta learn when and where best to use such tactics.
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