Mercenary90

Vehicles present a significant obstacle in 2142. In larger maps, they have the ability to inflict damage (often unrevivable) from extremely long distances, where infantry cannot retaliate. In smaller maps, they can present a significant threat to clustered infantry.

How then do we kill these vehicles?

The common answer is either with Orbital/EMPs, Engineers, and RDX Recon.

This thread deals with tips for Recons, Engineers, Commanders, and Squad Leaders about how to effectively deal with vehicle threats. For example, how many squad members should ideally be assigned to kill an APC? What are good vantage points? Cover? Flanking? How do you get close enough to plant RDX? Is it better to close distance or use Pilums/Missiles from medium range? Give your opinion here.

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He was told that he should not kill, and he did not kill, until he got into the Army. Then he was told to kill, and he killed.

FrozenInferno

APC - 2 anti-vehicle weapon shots to the side will destroy it. Pilums are a plus since there no lock on tone.

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Britt

The deadliest thing, the single deadliest thing to a vehicle is an EMP lock. Support should always have EMP nades, and the one thing you should be doing as Support when there is a vehicle around is EMP locking it. If you are Assault, then you need to support the the Supports and Engis and Recons trying to take out vehicles. If you see a Support EMP locking a vehicle, then protect him. Don't let some jobber kill the only thing keeping the walker from hammering your squad.

If you see an engineer maneuvering to take out a walker and you are assault, then follow him. Kill enemies in his path, revive him when he dies. If, for example, the squad is running 4 Assaults, one support, and one engi, then each of the people working to take out the vehicle should have two people guarding them. It really gets me when I see a lone engi trying set up a perfect shot on a vehicle only to be killed by a lone rifleman. This should not happen. Vehicle drill for a squad should be instinctive: Lock it, kill it. If you can't scratch the paint on it, then stay down and guard those who can kill it.

Oh, and for the love of all holy things in all the heavens of the world, stop shooting your rifle rockets at the armor. It does no damage at all, and it makes you (and the engi who can kill it standing next to you) a huge target for tanks and APC mortars and other hurting things.

Zhohar

Let me rate the anti-vehicle options in order of effectiveness, from least to most.
Edit: Whoops -- I should mention that this is assuming that the enemy armor is piloted by smart, TG people. Pubbies can be easily taken out with ... ah heck, any number of things. A support's EMP lock is probably the easiest.
But, assuming smart people are working against you:

1. Least effective: engineers. They don't inflict damage quickly enough, and are easy to kill. Most pilots fall back and repair after taking damage ... making engineers a deterrent at best and free tickets for the enemy at worst.

2. A tad more effective: CO EMP/OS. People like to blame others for their own failing: blaming a CO for not taking out enemy armor is the #1 way people reap self-righteous moral high-ground from a bad round.
The truth of the matter is quite a bit more ugly. Taking out walkers is nearly impossible without a prior EMP grenade on walker.
And taking out anything else is a waste of time because it either spawns too quickly (read: APCs and tanks -- usually a 60s spawn), or is piloted by someone who knows how to keep moving or look for the EMP shimmer.
Again, the CO's tools are highly over-rated for their anti-armor capabilities. At best, the EMP/OS is a quick bandaid patch for a team that has lazy or not-very-smart squad leaders.

3. Same rating as previous, but a bit higher because it can be executed by anyone: buggy doom.
Buggy doom without EMP grenades is "free points for enemy armor." Buggy doom with EMPs against walkers/tanks is effective, but APCs is difficult. APCs can accurately and easily damage FAVs at range with the F1 seat and can also EMP the jeep.
Against APCs, best case scenario is to get behind them and fire 2 Pillums simultaneously.

4. Recommend method, far surpassing all of the previous: friendly armor squad.
Least used method because people would rather complain about any number of things instead of taking matters into their hands and constructively contributing. Friendly and enemy armor keep each other in check.
If there isn't an armor squad up on your side, start one. If there is one, help them by taking important flags. For example, on Belgrade, take Statue.

5. Same rating as previous, but a bit higher because it can be executed by anyone: taking strategic flags.
If, as an infantry SL, you're able to capture the enemy armor spawn flag, the problem is gone. This is why Berlin Outpost cap is looked at as a hallmark of a good SL -- it removed the Rape APC out of EU's hands. Also takes out the EU CO's assets and allows your armor to breathe a bit easier.
If removing that spawn is not possible, then consider other strategic flags.
On Suez, take all flags and then watch the 18 000 PAC tanks obliterate your armor-less EU team. Or capture Inner alone and let your gunships destroy the rest of their armor with impunity.
On Belgrade, take Statue. This grants you the walker and that alone has huge anti-armor capabilities. Also, it grants your armor high ground.
Also a possibility, though a bit worse -- take the first flag out of enemy UCB. Works well agains the Belgrade PAC because the Pond rorsches are absolutely killer to PAC armor.
Also on Belgrade -- try not to hold Comm Tower if the enemy has the flag immediately next to it ... this is prime shelling ground for APCs and tanks.

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[blantant self-promotion]
Also, if you hate dying to APC mortars -- you should consider attending this TGU class I'm running on APCs. I'm hoping that'll help you figure out how APCs think, and then you can outsmart them, and have an evil little laugh while stroking your pointy French mustache.
[/blatant self-promotion]

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Pfft, how can you call it suicidal if we lived through it?

Mixa

I don't see above numbers working in any possible set-up as they've been placed now, they're affected more by numbers than anything else. If I have 5 engineers who shoot the APC at the same time, its timing that matters, but then I already have the numbers to have the best effect.

I say this because there is never enough engineers on Belgrade, especially when both armor squads mainly ever focus on killing infantry. So numbering things bothers me a bit, mostly because I'm not sure what is the point of it (I see it as: What we should have most and what least)

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PM07SNV

You can prove this? Do you mean very little damage, or actually no damage at all? Your wording can mislead people into thinking the wrong thing..

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HellHarry

well rocket deal damage to even walker by 1% everytime. But really is 4% worth your life??? Ho and this is if your rocket are set correctly because a good driver will just back of after the first or second one and receive no more damage and he will know your location.

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-Str!ker-

RDX only works well on tanks and walkers since they have large blind spots and people have the habit of stopping and firing. I almost never try it on APC's, it's to easy to have someone in another seat to spot you and kill you, plus most people keep APC's moving since weapons like the mortar have a generous area of affect.

machowner

I only pickup the CO responsibilities when no one else does. Mainly because for some reason my voip doesn't work when I CO.
It is really difficult to take down the armor when TG players are piloting them. As a CO the most you can do is drop an orbital to make the armor back off the flag for a few seconds. To do point that is mainly all that an orbital against armor or troops is good for on TG servers. That is what I have noticed anyway.

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machowner

or the right thing, considering that the rockets do so little damage.....

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Zoraster

I don't really buy Zhohar's breakdown.

Engineers can be effective, especially when combined with a support with emp grenades.

I think Zhohar has a good point: getting a walker down via orbital is really tricky against someone who knows what they're doing. But I disagree that it's not worth it against other armor. The APCs may get back up fairly quickly, but that time can be crucial in getting your infantry into positions where they're not absolutely decimated by the APC. For example, if I take out the APC that's defending crossroads while I'm the PAC CO, my infantry stand a lot better chance of taking crossroads and moving up to attack roadblock. Once PAC takes crossroads, the APC's ability to control the game is diminished.

I don't think buggies of doom are very effective, even against Tanks. I think they're fun diversions, and I enjoy trying them on otherwise boring (to me) maps, but I don't think they're ticket positive affairs.

Armor squads to counter are often effective at keeping an enemy at bay, so I think Zhohar is absolutely correct there.

EDIT: One point about CO/EMP against good pilots. Depending on the piece of armor, they're definitely hard to take out. But when you're having problems, it's because they're usually moving around a lot. Try to use the environment around the vehicle as a tool. If a walker can only move forward at the time you emp/orbital, you'll have a lot better shot at predicting where he's going.

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|TG-Mth| Zoraster | .

LeFrancoy

Just a side note... Sometimes I use my rockets to divert the walker/tank’s attention to me to allow engies/supports to get in position. So I shoot then move, shoot then move, etc.

If you have rocks or crates to work with, you can lure the driver and have him think you are a noob begging to get blown to pieces, when in reality your messing with his concentration.

It must be said though that good armor players are usually not alone and will outright ignore you and/or let the infantry take you down... But on isolated armor, it can work (Albeit on very specific situations). Church flag on Verdun is a good place for that.

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|TG| LeFrancoy

Bagged milk is good for you!

PM07SNV

But as is everything in 2142, there are times when this is useful..

Walker sitting on church, engy has it down to 25% or less, but is killed. you have a squad of rocketeers at South Town, job done.... I've seen and done this many times, so it should never be dismissed so easily.

Obviously I'm not saying you go buggy-doom a tank at full health with your rockets.. Just that although 1 man is pretty useless, a squad can do the business before your engy comes back.

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Britt

See one of the things I hate about 2142 is how little armor there is. In BF2 the armor was overpowered, I think in 2142 it is underpowered. I played AT for a large portion of BF2 because even on a city map you had Vodniks, APCS, and tanks to deal with. I think you lose a little of what makes BF great when a squad of one support and 5 assaults will deal with 98% of all ingame situations. Since the armor dies so quick, the engi kit on infantry heavy maps is only brought out after a walker has proved itself resilient to orbitals and Rorsch guns. Which means that the (to my eyes at least) theoretically well balanced squad of 1 support, 1 engi, and 4 assaults is really wasting a slot because the engi is only actually useful for about 10% of the round at best. Which I think kind of stinks....but that may be an old AT fan who misses his DAO talking!

HellHarry

Please don't use Carebear walker as an exemple has it is the most useless piece of armor there is on anymap. and most map with walker are big enought for the walker to be in infantry zone without being so close to the enemy lines.

Just to give info on EMP/Orby
If you try to take out an APC or a Tank EMP and wait for the sound trigger (the one that tells you the EMP is drop) before dropping to orbital... APC and Tank do not recover fast from EMP and you normally have the time to set your orbital on even if it move. Predicting movement is the key here.

With walker it's trickier since they recover faster and it is possible for a good driver to step foward or backward with just the sound of the EMP dropping. If you wait for your orbital on walker they will survive most of the time since they will only get hit once or in some case twince and not get kill. The key here is having communication with your CO. If you have an engy in your squad who is engaging a walker tell the CO. Since the walker will already be down in health the Orbital as more chance of killing hit if it's not dead on or if it's delayed and it might provide the time for the engy for a new shot on the walker.

In any case a good driver will always have the upper hand as they will try and stay away from infantry and always be on the move making CO and enemy engy useless most of the time. Your best chance will always be to lure the armor in a situation where it lost it'S distance advantage with a surprise strike from one of is flank frome what he believes is a "safe area".

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