Re: Assaulting Camp Gibraltar: Breaching The Lines!

**Elite_Master** · 02-12-2007, 02:10 PM

Another related idea would be to get the squad of six to jump into two buggies and just 'zerg'-it past harbour and toll station (sprinting by any mines - buggy can out-run them) BUT then jump out at central right before the wall of smoke because usually right at about that time the enemy walker is rounding that corner and coming through the smoke (on route to Harbour) and will kill your ass in a buggy..then run into the Central flag building and cap it quick... the key is to get everyone spawning at central fast so everyone can make a rush for EU base.. plus it helps to keep the enemy walker occupied at Central because it is much easier to take it down there (restricted space) than at the entrance to Harbour (in the wide open space). Plus the friendly walker will be having a grand killing spree at Harbour because it won't have to deal with an enemy walker..

**Sir_Brass** · 02-12-2007, 05:10 PM

Only problem there is emp mines and motions at harbor. Folks see you coming, and also the walker being up there already. Thing is that motions WILL get you even if you're fast b/c if they're laid out right, you won't physically be ABLE to get through toll w/o running straight into them.

**Boulderdash** · 02-12-2007, 05:34 PM

You can usually take the left path past harbor, jump the buggy by the docks and gun it from that point on. The chances of mines at Toll are 50/50 or so.

**Sir_Brass** · 02-13-2007, 03:48 AM

on the TG server, chances of mines are 99%.

**sc1ence** · 02-13-2007, 04:19 AM

the more i think about this, the more i think the only chance you have of making it not a meatgrinder is to have teh attacking comander put the 3 largest squadleaders in the buggy and send them to toll assuming that it is the beggining of the game. have ALL the sm hold thier spawn. then have sl's hop out before the mines and then have each squad spawn on the leaders then assign two groups on toll while another group slips by to the back bases. once attacking has harbor, it is only a large concentrated force that is getting through, usually by sheer luck and one or two slip by.

defense is allwys present at toll, usualy it is just a single dedicated TG squad with one or two engys, a support and a small quantity of assualt. they simply could not withstand the sheer numbers of even two full squads attacking toll on foot.

**Boulderdash** · 02-13-2007, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Sir_Brass

on the TG server, chances of mines are 99%.

Good point. I'm still trying to kick some of that Pub mentality :P

**bcwfan** · 03-05-2007, 08:33 PM

Here is a tactic i was thinking about. When playing as PAC 1 squad should get both buggies. The squad leader in one buggy and 1 squad member in the other. Both buggies make there way towards the rear flags with the squad leader in the following buggy. The first buggy should go through toll station with nitro on. This should give whoever is driving the buggy a chance to bail before the mines make contact. If done at the right time it will attract all the nearby mines and explode them. The squad leader in the second buggy should be able to either drive through or hop out (hopefully) with a full squad and take toll station or another rear flag.

acomb

**Arf** · 03-05-2007, 08:58 PM

I've tried that, the wreckage usually gets in the way of the next buggie and players are starting to spread their mines out more so you can't destroy all of them in one pass.

**Lyramion** · 03-05-2007, 11:52 PM

Smart toll defenders also use EMP mines with are a buggys sure death. Your best bet for rushing thru on the start is to hop out just infront of toll and make use of one of the catwalks since people still busy on mines and setting up.

**Guardianx11x** · 03-06-2007, 12:59 AM

I think everything said is good. But, looking at this from the other perspective...its easy to cover the catwalks and the toll station. The point I'm driving at is that success boils down to luck oh this one.

**Sir_Brass** · 03-06-2007, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Lyramion

Smart toll defenders also use EMP mines with are a buggys sure death. Your best bet for rushing thru on the start is to hop out just infront of toll and make use of one of the catwalks since people still busy on mines and setting up.

Usually, getting the buggy and heading straight for toll and THROUGH toll is the best chance of EVER getting through without a ready force to resist you.

I've been at toll at the beginning of the game with a squad READY to immediately deploy mines and the buggy still got through b/c the engy in the squad didn't have enough time to deploy both emp and motion where they were needed in time.

Chance of getting blown up in an immediate buggy rush is kind of high, but it's still lower than any other point in the game ususally (as far as points that can be predicted go). Best chance would be a buggy rush after mines have been cleared (motion mine bait comes to mind), as well as a big distraction (walker anyone?). But that will take very good CO to SL coordination and timing. Need to have an on-the-ball CO who's in on the plan, and already has the proper squad in mind to pull the trick.

**C_Gypsy** · 03-06-2007, 09:38 AM

With the motion mines thick at the door wouldn't it be possible to use the new mmb-5 to clear them? It might mean having the engy sacrifice himself but it could get the buggy through. Timing would be the key. Maybe a minute delay to allow the EU defenders to get comfy with the MM blockade, then drag it away.

Additionally (bearing in mind that I haven't used the MMB) how far can you drag the MM before they blow? Might it be possible to drag them far enough to disrupt the toll defense with ensuing explosion?

**WaffleHousChef** · 03-06-2007, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by C_Gypsy

With the motion mines thick at the door wouldn't it be possible to use the new mmb-5 to clear them? It might mean having the engy sacrifice himself but it could get the buggy through. Timing would be the key. Maybe a minute delay to allow the EU defenders to get comfy with the MM blockade, then drag it away.

The key to the buggy rush in the front door is all speed (or pure luck.) You are gambling that there isn't a squad in Toll (*cough*not happening*cough*)or you can get in a buggy and zip it through the front door before the squad(s) that spawn at toll initially can set up a full defense.

Now that Toll defense can take many forms, but only the first layer can be diffused by the MMB. The "proper" layered defense for a buggy rush on Gibby is at least EMP mines, Motion mines, Engy shoulder gun, Railgun, rocket spam. Everyone is looking for the buggy rush becuase if it pays off for the attackers it pays off big, but you're going to have a TG squad at toll (and sometimes 2+) setting up hard for it from the start, and the buggy rush is a race against the clock to beat the defenders from getting oriented, setup, placed, and dug in.

The MMB can only clear the first layer of defense, and that's one fragile buggy to be hanging around while that is done. To take the time to get out and toss the MMB you've sacrificed all your speed you've built up running up through Harbor, been spotted by the defenders, and will most likely be meeting Mr. Missle or his good friend Mr. Rocketspam. There is going to be someone with a shoulder cannon or Pilum since they had to be engy to drop mines, sometimes there will be at least 2 becuase some SLs will detail one to cover East alley and one to cover West alley. To add insult to injury, if the defenders can take your buggy intact and hold it with a SL inside they can use it as a rapid response spawn location to help plug leakers later on, and deny the attacking team that asset at the same time making the defense of toll station that much easier.

Buggy rushes are so marginal time-wise that their success hinges on the exact moment the driver hits the sprint. If you delay a minute (or even seconds) you've already let your best (only effective) window of opportunity pass.

It could be possible to try this on follow up buggy runs with a pretty good degree of coordination between an on foot engineer at the area leading into Toll Station and a buggy driver, but if the defenders are holding toll station hard there is still a lot more to get through then just the Motion Mines. And, by this point most likely another helpful defnese engy will have set a second group of motion mines in the backside of Toll Station where an on foot engy couldn't get a MMB onto. It might help your chances of success marginally, but a rogue buggy attempting to breakthrough a heavily defended toll station after the initial rush is going to be pretty rough MMB or no.

**Hidus** · 03-06-2007, 01:42 PM

Against any half decent defense, a rush is pure suicide. Aside from the usual minefields, on many maps you are rushing headfirst into fully healed enemy vehicles. In a lot of cases I think it's better to just wait for other squads to engage, take a look at the map and see where other squads are at and get CO to do a quick Sat Scan and look for holes.

As a CO I am always looking for new ways to use orbital strike and one of the best ways I have found is using it as cover/diversionary tactic.

Here's how I would do it:

1. Play footsies around harbor to open the round. Don't try to take the flag, just take up positions on roofs etc where you can rain down fire until...

2. Destroy enemy walker. This usually happens reasonably quickly. By this time if you have left toll station alone a lot of the defenders there will have moved up to harbor looking for action. This sets the stage for the push through toll station.

3. Get a squad in position to move down the east side of toll station on foot. West side could work just as well although tends to be a little busier.

4. CO use orbital strike purely to mask the squad moving into toll. Drop it so no enemies can see the squad when they first run south when they are completly vulnerable. Once they get in behind the building to the east they are home free so you just need to shield them during the initial sprint. Remember your goal as CO here is not to kill anyone with the OS, just to block their LoS.

Once you get past toll station, pick a flag and have at it.

**SkilleRStyLe** · 03-06-2007, 05:22 PM

Breaking toll station from the harbor side isn't that hard...

1) gather your squad to the left or right side between the trains.
2) request an orbital strike followed by an emp strike (emp should be launched at the side you want to break.
3) during the orbital strike have all squad members nading any target indicated on the mini-map or otherwise.
4) rush in kill, wound or scare anybody in your way. They will have a hard time killing you since the emp screwed up their sight.
5) DON'T take toll station but run past and try to get a back flag.
6) This point is crucial : have alot of assault medics in your squad, because getting past toll doesn't end the fight.

This methode is 95 % succesfull on any server I played with a good commander and a tight squad. I haven't played on TG because of ping issues.
But then again TG is great but it is by no means the only tree in the forrest.

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